You are looking at it from a human stand point. God says to make no repsetantion of anything anywhere on earth to represent him.

Why isn't that enough to get us to stop it? He said don't. We do it anyway, and we justify it with arguments. Your issue is not with any of us who reject the idols. Your issue is with Him. Convince Him it is ok. Find a scripture that supports your view. Find one.

Then there is the reason God said don't. It is because He knows the lines will become blurred. And they have. People clutch their rosery, their crucifix and their cross when they pray. Where do you think the real emphasis is" It is on the physical. They treat these things like good luck charms. Exactly what God did not want.

look at this for a moment from the Devils point of view. He is laughing at God and saying, I can get these guys to bark at the moon and think they are worshiping you.

So, the devil has us dragging a tree into our home just like the pagans did centuries before. We decorate it will gold and silver. Then we bow down on our knees and put gifts under it. And--we think we do this for Jesus Jer 10:2 It is ancient tree and sun worship.

The people bow down to their idols. They pray to these things, and they do it thinking they are doing it to Jesus, and it is really doing it to Baal. You can call Baal Jesus all you want. The devil does not care as long as you are doing the exact opposite of what God says. He is more than satisfied.

Doen't any of this make sense to you? Or do you just want to do what you want, and it doesn't matter what God says?

Art

I do what i like i repent when i want, and maybe one day i will follow "like said to do". Religion is open, you dont have to be a preacher to go to heaven.


This is exactly the problem. You have been taught that all you have to do is accept Jesus and then you are in no matter what you do. It is a lie. You have been tricked.

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

God never gave man the authority to determine what is right or wrong, and how we are to live. Not anything we think is acceptable to Him. Doing His will is what matters. That is what He is looking at not what we say, or profess.

art

It depends. I don't think we have enough information to determine a perfect answer. For example when you say are they trying to force their beliefs on you, what do you actually mean by that?

If they have specific Sabbath requirements, they are required to enforce them on anyone within their gates. If they say no girls over night, or you have to be in by a certain time, they have that prerogative. You have no argument.

If on the other hand, they expect you to go to their church, and accept their beliefs as your own, then they are sort of stepping on what should be your "ten acres" now at your age.

They taught you before this, and now, you have to find yourself and your own beliefs.

So, if they are just trying to push their religion on you, and you are not actually doing things that show an overt disrespect for their beliefs and rules, then I have a plan.

Why not go to them and explain, as you have to us, that you respect and love them, but you want them to understand something.

Explain that you are coming into your own, and that they did a good job of teaching you. They have done their part and that you believe that they have done it very well. Your choice right now is not a reflection on them.

Then show them some scriptures to help them understand.

Read: Pro 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Tell them they have trained you. You do, understand, but every kid has to find their own way. They did when they were young, and God worked with them to bring them to Him. You might come back later, but right now you don't feel called of God to do that.

Remind them that Jesus or the disciples never tried to force anyone to believe.

Explain that you understand that there is a calling involved. as Jesus said:

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

As Ecc 3 says there is a time for everything.

Paul writes: 1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

Tell them, So, mom and dad, I am asking you to understand that God is not calling me right now. And, all this pressure is pushing me away from you who I deeply love and respect. I don't want that to happen, and I know it can. I have seen it with others in the church and at school. The pressure becomes too great and the kids either get angry at their parents or they cave in for fear and then become depressed.

Then explain that God even says this:

Eph 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Col 3:21 Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged.

Tell em: Mom and Dad, I don't want this to happen to us. I care too much about you. So, I am asking you to give me some time. I am becoming a man now. Let me become who God wants me to become. Let me have some time to process life, who I am, and what I actually believe.

But, I want you to know, I appreciate your love and desire to protect me with your religion. I want you to know, I will always try my best to honor and respect the both of you.

I am older now, and so grateful that you were my mom and dad, and I have tried to show that in my behavior. Now I am asking something of you. Please respect me in this.

Then from me to you personally. You may not believe in much of this religious stuff. I understand. Much of it is man made. It is silly and foolish sometimes. However, you do know that the principles in the Bible and its morality and ethics are there to protect you, not limit you. So, reject religion if you will, but think it through. The moral guidelines in the Bible are there to insure your success in life. Don't be a fool and discard them because the rest of your friends and the rest of the world are.

There is always a kick back. There are always penalties to pay for breaking the rules.

Love ya, and the best to you,

Art

Yes--here is a good one. We are not perfect, so lets just go ahead and do the exact opposite of what God says. There you go. You have to admit it is a great answer.

Art

Could it be that the real God is just to big, too great, too majestic, and holy for us to comprehend so, we create something we can actually deal with. A statue, a tree, candles, a crucifix, or an easter basket?

Those things are not so scary. We can deal with them

Art

Jesus was not the Son of God until He was born on the Earth.

Before that He was YHWH, David's lord, and the Word.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God. Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Christ is God's first born son.

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Art

I have one:

Christians are not always Christians:

Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. Mat 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. Mat 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

So, there are tares within the "true" Christian body. Why attack people? Why not attack false belief, seek the truth, and try to make certain we are not one of the tares?

Art

The Church has gone through a number of transformations to become what it is today. Luther was but one of those transformations.

As an aside, when the serfs thought they could reject the authority of the German lords, Luther told the lords to kill the peasants and by doing so they would get a free ticket to heaven.

That said, here is an except from a book called the 144,000 under the chapter Not Defiled by Women:

The Woman’s Transformation Begins
A transformation within God’s Church started soon after Christ’s resurrection. The process began with Gnostic corruption from within, and it continued as the church absorbed Roman paganism. It was finally made complete by the birth of many daughter churches, who now reflect their Roman mother.
The doctrines instituted by Christ, and observed by the apostles, were first perverted by men influenced by Gnosticism, an esoteric religious system based on the acquisition of knowledge. False teachers, swayed by Gnostic heretics such as Simon Magus and Cerinthus, infiltrated God’s Church. While professing belief in Christ, these false teachers brought in damnable beliefs (II Corinthians 11:13-15; II Peter 2:1).
At the core of the Gnostic system was a belief that anything physical took a person away from God. Those things that were intellectual, and therefore believed to be spiritual, brought one closer to the Deity. Consequently, only those things of the mind were valued by disciples of this false religion.
In time, two sects emerged from this belief. An ascetic view was propagated which advocated that, since the physical led man away from God, individuals should avoid all pleasures in life in order to become more spiritual. The Apostle Paul described this branch of the movement when he spoke of those who taught “touch not (and) taste not” (Colossians 2:21).
Another sect of this movement also developed, carrying the name Epicurean. These believers put an ironic twist on the teaching. They advocated that, since only thoughts of the mind mattered, a person should partake of every kind of physical pleasure in order to gain more knowledge. The perversion actually went so far as to teach that an individual could perform any depraved act. The belief was propagated that as long as a person had love in their heart and mind, it was not sin.
When addressing this part of the gnostic movement, Paul writes, “shall we sin that grace may abound? God forbid” (Romans 6:1). The Apostle John also combated this first century heresy, writing that whoever says that they do not sin deceives himself (I John 1:8).
This gnostic movement continued to affect the church for two centuries. It caused the importance of following God's law to be minimized as false teachers propagated the belief that love for God in the heart was more important than actual obedience to His commands. Then, in the fourth century, a historic precedent catapulted the church into greater apostasy.

Emperor Constantine furthers the Transformation
The Roman Emperor Constantine came to power in the early 300s when it was still a violation of Roman law to practice Christianity. During this time in history, those who professed the Christian religion were hated by the state and subjected to great persecution. This included torture, and even burning at the stake.
The new Emperor took control of the Roman Empire at a period when it was beginning to crumble due to excess. At the same time, the now corrupt Christian religion was growing. Despite great persecution, these professing Christians seemed dedicated to their faith. They taught moral living and hard work, coupled with loyalty to the state. Constantine was so impressed that he decided to use this religion as the glue to hold his failing Empire together.
Constantine issued “The Edict of Toleration” in 313 A.D., and later made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire. State persecution of Christians stopped immediately with this edict, and believers throughout the empire rejoiced. They were convinced that God had saved them through this pagan dictator.
Few could have anticipated what would occur next. Because Christianity was now the state religion, the church became political. The woman began to ride the beast described in Revelation, chapter seventeen, and professing Christianity was further metamorphosed. Jesse Hurlbut describes this, stating:

The establishment of Christianity as the state religion became a curse. Everybody sought membership in the church, and nearly everybody was received. Both good and bad, sincere seekers after God and hypocritical seekers after gain, rushed into the communion. Worldly, unscrupulous men sought office in the church for social and political influence . . . The services of worship increased in splendor, but were less spiritual and hearty than those of former times. The forms and ceremonies of paganism gradually crept into the worship. The old heathen feasts became church festivals with change of name and (a change in) worship (The Story of the Christian Church).

The Transformation becomes Complete
Legalizing Christianity solved one problem for the church, but caused yet another. Millions of pagans were made “Christians” overnight, but they had no desire to give up their old ways. The priests tried to change the new converts from the paganism their culture had embraced, but could not! Finally, the church decided to accommodate the pagan practices. The church historian, Guignebert explains how this process occurred. He writes:

At the beginning of the fifth century, the ignorant and the semi-Christians thronged into the church in numbers. They had forgotten none of their pagan customs . . . The bishops of that period had to content themselves with redressing, as best they could and in experimental fashion, the shocking malformations of the Christian faith which they perceived around them. [To properly teach new converts] was out of the question; they had to be content with teaching them no more than the symbol of baptism and then baptizing them en masse, postponing until a later date the task of eradicating their superstitions, which they preserved intact . . . This “later date” never arrived, and the church adapted to herself, as well as she could, them and their customs and beliefs . . . [converts] were content to dress their paganism in a Christian cloak (The Early History of Christianity pp. 208-210).

This so-called Christianity attempted to bring the pagan world under its control through a process of assimilation. But instead of converting the pagans to their beliefs, this practice actually fueled the spread of the false pagan worship, like a cancer from within. Ultimately, this attempt at mass conversion worked to further defile true religion. Will Durant writes:

Christianity did not destroy paganism; it adopted it . . . From Egypt came the idea of a divine trinity . . . and the adoration of the Mother and Child. . . . From Phrygia came the worship of the Great Mother . . . The Mithraic ritual so closely resembled the Eucharistic sacrifice of the mass that Christian fathers charged the devil with inventing these similarities to mislead frail minds. [Modern day] Christianity was the last great creation of the ancient pagan world (The Story of Civilization, p. 595).

Instead of being separate from the world, this form of “Christianity” was driven by a desire to increase their numbers. They invited the world inside.
Believing they could “Christianize” the pagans, the church began accepting a wide range of Babylon’s beliefs, symbols, and practices. In so doing, it became more corrupt. Alexander Hislop writes:

This tendency on the part of Christians to meet paganism half way was very early developed (The Two Babylons, p. 93).

This form of Christianity believed it could meet the pagans half way by accepting them, if they in turn would accept Christ. What occurred in actual practice was that the pagans so defiled this church that it was assimilated by them!
The church remained in this state for more than a thousand years. As it grew more and more powerful, it was finally able to take control of the holy Roman Empire— fulfilling the prophecy, “the woman rode the Roman beast.” The formerly persecuted church became the persecutor. She lived deliciously—drunk on the blood of the true saints (Revelation 17:6).
In the 1500s, the Protestant reformation was born. Millions believed they were now free from defilement by the woman. While free from Papal authority, their new freedom was actually a birth of the daughters of the whore who would bear her likeness in belief, tradition and symbol.

Art

To answer the question:

The JW's do not celebrate xmas because they realized that God condemns such observances. For example see the first commandment, and then look up Santa and Christmas on the web.


The Scriptures don't actually condemn celebrating your birthday, but every example of a birthday in the Bible is negative, and the Jews and early Christians did not celebrate birthdays. In fact the Hebrew calendar is set up so that those born on the 13th month could only celebrate their birthday once every three years.

Birthday celebrations are tainted. Historically the round cake filled with candles is a form of sun worship, but that can be separated from the birthday. To me it would be a good idea to make sure our children understand that we are glad that they are born and belong to us. I think we should recognize a person's birth day without using pagan symbols for those who care about such stuff.

The JW's also do not celebrate the 4th of July or salute the flag. They see it as idolatry. However, ancient Israel showed respect toward the king, and the nation. They had man made fasts and feasts like Hanuka that were not condemned by God. In fact, Christ kept this feast of dedication. So, well intentioned, I think that they are way off--over the edge--on this one.

Art
Art

For fun consider that Jesus started His ministry when he was "about thirty" Further, His ministry was 3 1/2 years long. He died on the 14th day of the first month--Passover.

Therefore, he was 33 1/2 yrs old in march or april, thus he would have been born about six months before march or april. That puts in him Sept or Oct for being born It would be about the 7th month in the Hebrew calendar and probably on Trumpets or Tabernacles.

When Was Jesus Born?
Was Jesus actually born in the fall (autumn) of the year? The Bible strongly indicates this is true. The scriptures provide benchmarks that can assist in determining when Jesus was conceived as well as the general time of His birth. The gospel of Luke (Lk. 1:5-17) records an event in which the angel Gabriel visited a priest named Zacharias and informed him that his wife Elizabeth would give birth to a son (John the Baptist).
Gabriel made this announcement while Zacharias was serving in the temple. Luke indicates that Zacharias performed this service during "the course of Abia" (or Abijah). According to First Chronicles, Abijah served during "the eighth course" (1Chron. 24:10). The great Jewish historian Josephus wrote that each course was one week long with priests rotating so that each would serve twice during the year. In this case, Zacharias would have served from Iyar 27 through Sivan 5. This period would coincide with late May or early June.
Luke’s gospel goes on to state that Zacharias returned home immediately after his days of service were complete (Lk. 1:23). Shortly after his return, his wife Elizabeth conceived. This would mean her conception would have taken place during June or perhaps July at the latest. The birth of John the Baptist would therefore have taken place in the spring (March - April), probably during the time of the Days of Unleavened Bread.
But what does this have to do with the birth of Jesus? Luke’s gospel indicates that Gabriel also spoke to Mary and informed her that she would give birth to the Messiah (Lk. 1:26-36). When Mary asked how she would know this was true, Gabriel explained that her cousin Elizabeth was in her sixth month of pregnancy.

And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. (Luke 1:36)

Mary then left her home to seek Elizabeth. When she arrived, Elizabeth confirmed that Christ had already been conceived in Mary (Lk 1:39-42). The time of this visit was during the winter, probably December or January. This being the case, Jesus would have been born nine months later – in other words, in the fall.
It is interesting to note that Jewish tradition believes the world was created on the first day of the civil year, the Feast of Trumpets, which occurs in mid-September or early October. Although the Bible does not specifically identify the exact date of Jesus’ birth, some authorities have suggested that He, too, was born on this day. Clearly, however, Jesus was not born on or near December 25 and any representation to the contrary is completely false. (The truth About Christmas)

art

The second Vatican council formally stated that while there was a Roman Catholic bishop named Nicholas, they acknowledged that many concepts associated with him actually came from pagan sources. William Walsh wrote:

Santa Claus comes form Saint Nicholas, the saint whose festival was celebrated in December and the one who in other respects was most nearly in accord with the dim traditions of Saturn as the hero of the Saturnalia. (The Story of Santa Klaus, p.70)

Tony Van Renterghem writes the following in his book, When Santa Was a Shaman: The Ancient Origins of Santa Claus & the Christmas Tree:

In the newly Christianized areas where the pagan Celtic and Germanic cults remained strong, legends of the god Wodan were blended with those of various Christian saints; Saint Nicholas was one of these. There were Christian areas where Saint Nicholas ruled alone; in other locations, he was assisted by the pagan Dark Helper. In other remote areas... ancient pockets of the Olde Religion controlled traditions.

Here the Dark Helper ruled alone. Sometimes in a most confusing manner, using the cover name of Saint Nicholas or ‘Klaus,’ without in any way changing his threatening, Herne/Pan, fur-clad appearance.

By absorbing such pagan feasts and traditions, the Christian Church turned Herne into Saint Nicholas’ captive, chained Dark Helper; none other than Satan the Dark One, symbolic of all evil...

In Holland and several other European countries, the Saint Nicholas figure is still highly esteemed. He appears as a tall, dignified, bearded, white-haired old man, dressed as a Catholic bishop, complete with a bizarre, quite un-saintly habit of riding through the skies on a white horse, followed by his Dark Helper. It seems that our Catholic saint inherited some of these customs from the pagan god Wodan, who has also been a bearded, white haired old man, also dressed in a hat and cloak, carried a staff, rode a white horse, and dragged along the same dark slave/helper on a chain. (pp. 96-97)

Renterghem continues to explain that in Holland, "Sinterklaas" was believed to reward good children with gifts, while "Zwarte Pier" carried a sinister rod and punished bad children. Renterghem stated that in Germany, Saint Nicholas’ Dark Helper was a frightening, horned little man brandishing a besom (broom).
The Worldbook Encyclopedia provides some interesting insights into some of the traditions regarding Santa Claus.

Some of Santa Claus’s characteristics date back many centuries. For example, the belief that Santa enters the house through the chimney developed from an old Norse legend. The Norse believed that the goddess Hertha appeared in the fireplace and brought good luck to the home.

Other traditions from the Druidic time suggest that Santa’s red suit is a leftover from the times when ancient peoples worshiped the god of fire.
Tradition has it that this fire god came down the chimney. Consider too, that in ancient times, Druid homeowners would leave a treat consisting of milk and pastries to appease this god who came down the chimney into their fireplace. This is how the tradition of leaving milk and cookies out for Santa began. The idea of placing stockings on the fireplace mantel also comes from this legendary pagan practice.
It is clear that the modern Santa traces his origins back to ancient pagan traditions.

Art

Fun xmas info:

Werner Keller writes in The Bible as History:
December 25 is referred to in documents as Christmas day in A.D. 324 for the first time. Under the Roman emperor Justinian [in the 500's] it was recognized as an official holiday. An old Roman festival played a major part in the choice of this particular day. December 25 in ancient Rome was the ‘Dies Natali Invictus,’ ‘the birthday of the unconquered,’ the day of the winter solstice and at the same time, in Rome, the last day of the Saturnalia, which had long since degenerated into a week of unbridled carnival... P 331.

...In the Roman world, the Saturnalia was a time of merrymaking and exchanging of gifts. December 25th was also regarded as the birth date of the Iranian Mystery god, Mithra, the Sun of Righteousness. On the Roman New Year houses were decorated with greenery and lights and gifts were given to children. To these observances were added the German and Celtic Yule rites...Food and good fellowship, the Yule log and Yule cakes, greenery and fir tree, gifts and greetings all commemorated different aspects of this festive season. Fires and lights, symbols of warmth and lasting life have always been associated with the winter festival, both pagan and Christian. (Vol. II, 1973)

Christianity did not destroy paganism; it adopted it... From Egypt came the idea of a divine trinity... [and] the adoration of the Mother and Child... From Phrygia came the worship of the Great Mother... The Mithraic ritual so closely resembled the Eucharistic sacrifice of the Mass that Christian fathers charged the Devil with inventing these similarities to mislead frail minds. [Modern day] Christianity was the last great creation of the ancient pagan world. (Will Durant, The Story of Civilization, p. 595)

Charles Guignebert, in his 1927 book, The Early History of Christianity, gave the following explanation:
Now at the beginning of the fifth century, the ignorant and the semi-Christians thronged into the church in numbers... They had forgotten none of their pagan customs... The bishops of that period had to content themselves with redressing, as best they could, and in experimental fashion, the shocking malformations of the Christian faith which they perceived around them... [To properly teach new converts] was out of the question; they had to be content with teaching them no more than the symbol of baptism and then baptizing them en masse, postponing until a later date the task of eradicating their superstitions, which they preserved intact... This "later date" never arrived, and the church adapted to herself, as well as she could, them and their customs and beliefs. On their side, [converts] were content to dress their paganism in a Christian cloak. (pp. 208-210)

The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge:

The pagan Saturnalia and Brumailia were too deeply entrenched in popular custom to be set aside by Christian influence...
The pagan festival with its riot and merrymaking was so popular that Christians were glad of an excuse to continue its celebration with little change in the spirit and in manner. Christian preachers of the West and the Near East protested against the unseemly frivolity with which Christ’s birthday was celebrated, while Christians of Mesopotamia accused their Western brethren of idolatry and sun worship for adopting as Christian this pagan festival.

Art

Hi LadyValkyrie

Not only is Easter Pagan, but God punished Israel by breaking the tribes into two groups for their worship of this very same goddess of fertility. Professing Christians have been tricked into breaking the first commandment by worship of a false God and calling her Christ. It is beyond comprehension, but it is true.

I am an expert of sorts on the subject of the holy days and holidays. The Doctor on this video is absolutely wrong in his analysis of the word easter in Acts 12:9. I can guarantee this. I watched the video and would like to make a few points for clarification.

1. He says that the Passover is never considered as one of the feasts. But God say:

Lev 23:4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover.

So, God says Passover is one of His feasts.

2. He says the Passover always falls on April 14th.

This is silly. It is the 14th day of the first month in the Hebrew Calendar, not our Roman calendar. Because of the rules for intercalation, Passover rotates and lands on different days on our calendar.

3. He states that Passover is alway before the days of unleavened bread. Therefore, by this fact, Passover was already over and they were into the days of unleavened bread. His view is that Luke could not have been referring to Passover, and had to mean that Herod was waiting for Easter to conclude.

This is not the case. The Jews and Romans often called the entire week of unleavened bread the Passover. Notice Luke's words in another book, the gospel he wrote:

Luk 22:1 Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.

Therefore, understanding this, and looking at Acts 12:4 you will see that the true word is Passover, not Easter. Notice:

Act 12:3 And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.)

So, they were already into the days of unleavened bread which were called the Passover.

Act 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

Herod intended to keep him in prison until after the days of unleavened bread, called the Passover, were complete.

Herod would not celebrate Easter publicly in Judea. They would all rebel. Further, Luke would not use the term Easter. That form of the word did not exist then.

4. The good doctor states that Tyndale invented the word Passover. Of course he could not of meant that He invented the word. It had existed for thousands of years. I am not certain what he meant by this, but his point was that that Tyndale did not translate the word as Passover in this verse, but rather as Easter.

That fact actually has no meaning however. What he did does not matter. It is what the manuscripts actually say, and they all have the Greek word "Pascha" in this verse--meaning Passover.

As Thayer writes this word in Acts 12:4 is pascha. He defines it as:

1) the paschal sacrifice (which was accustomed to be offered for the people’s deliverance of old from Egypt)
4) the paschal feast, the feast of the Passover, extending from the 14th to the 20th day of the month Nisan

Further, this word is the same one used throughout the entire New Testament: Total KJV Occurrences: 29

As Passover, 28 times:

Mat_26:2, Mat_26:17-19 (3), Mar_14:1, Mar_14:12 (2), Mar_14:14, Mar_14:16, Luk_2:41, Luk_22:1, Luk_22:7-8 (2), Luk_22:11, Luk_22:13, Luk_22:15, Joh_2:13, Joh_2:23, Joh_6:4, Joh_11:55 (2), Joh_13:1 (2), Joh_18:28, Joh_18:39, Joh_19:14, 1Co_5:7, Heb_11:28

Same word as Easter, 1 time

Act_12:4

It is clear that the KJV translation mistranslated this word as Easter probably following Tyndale's error.

Thus, Luke wrote that Herod took Peter during the days of unleavened bread, and intended to bring him to trial after the days of unleavened bread, called passover were complete.

WHY DOES THIS MATTER?

The reason is because it shows that the church was keeping the Passover and days of unleavened bread. This the scholars and theologians do not want to admit.

That is why the brethren were all together when Peter was freed by the angel and appeared at the house. They were keeping these days and feasting on them.

For further evidence, notice that Luke later writes:
Act 20:6 And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.

Paul writes even later:
1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Hoping that is helpful.

Regarding this statement:

Christianity is actually a baby religion only a little over two thousand years, still a baby religion.

Christianity does not agree with this statement. Christ said that no one had seen God or heard His voice. He said it was Him that the Scriptures spoke of. Thus, He was the one who created the worlds. He was the one who took Israel out of Egypt. He was David's lord, and the I am who spoke to Abraham.

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Luk 20:42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Joh 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Yes, Christianity claims its beginnings to be before the world existed.

1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Art

my question to you is... does today's Christian music sound anything like the music that was made and sung by Jesus, King David, or Abraham? The answer is no.

Actually the answer is yes. The instruments may be different, but the music of David soothed Saul's spirit. It is not move Him to anger, sexual excitement or violence.

So what exactly is God's standards when it comes to music? Are Christians only supposed to use the musical instruments that were available back in Biblical times for it to be acceptable to God?

I know my posts are too long forgive me, and I will forgive you for not reading the answer in the quote. The instruments are not the issue, the use of the instruments and what we use them to produce is the issue. Therefore, a legitimate criteria is this:

Phi 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.


Are Christians supposed to learn ancient Hebrew and Greek in order to sing praises to God for it to be acceptable to God? Music is an expression from the heart and soul. It doesn't matter if it sounds like head banging music, light bubblegum pop music, twangy country music, swinging jazz music, or soulful gospel music. What matters is the intent of the heart... are they playing the music and singing the music in praise to their Higher Power?

That might be true for any ole God. But, trust me, the true will have quality first. I know we think we can give trash to God and He accepts it because He loves us. I don't buy it, if we don't respect Him enough to give the best, then we fool ourselves.

Please no need to get upset with me. I don't care what kind of music you offer to your god. My issue is only that the music we offer the God of the Bible. While never perfect should be the best quality we have. For example the principle is found in any of the offerings. God says:

Mal 1:6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name? Mal 1:7 Ye offer polluted bread upon mine altar; and ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee? In that ye say, The table of the LORD is contemptible. Mal 1:8 And if ye offer the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? and if ye offer the lame and sick, is it not evil? offer it now unto thy governor; will he be pleased with thee, or accept thy person? saith the LORD of hosts.

Remember just because you don't like a certain genre of music doesn't mean that genre of music is bad or evil. It simply means you personally do not like it.

Of course, but I know the God I worship. I know that He would not approve of those bands today that copy KISS and others metal and all that--He does not buy it. It is not Him. It is us.

When we are on God's wavelength, then we see that He is a God of enormous dignity, then we understand why the levites trained for 30 years before they were qualified to be singers and mucisians in the temple. That is an example of the quality that is appropriate and will be the quality given to Him in the Kingdom. While not practical today, Modern metal, speed, trash stuff in my sweet humble opinion is not appropriate for the Almighty one who created the entire universe.

Art

The book of revelation is a series of insets. They show the future from the time of John to the return of Christ, the setting up of his kingdom, and beyond. The book shows these prophecies in categories.

If you compare it to Daniel you will see that there is a perfect match. It is written in symbol, but easy enough to understand.

Thus the 7 letters represent eras of the church from Johns time to Christ's return.

The six seals are events to occur from Christs time until his return. These seals are repeated without the symbolism in Matthew 24,
White horse --false teachers coming in christ's name
red wars and rumors of war
black --war schorched earth famine
pale --sickness leading to death
Maryterdom of saints --the tribulation
signs in the heavens
The trumpet plagues chap 8--
There is the history of the two witnesses chap 11
There is the history of god's church chap 12
there is the history of the beast chapt 13
There is the history of those in the first resurrection chap 14
There is the history of the marriage supper & vial plagues #15-16
there is the history of the false church chap 17
The end of Babylon the false ecconomic system chap 18
Christs return chap 19
the first resurrection, millennial rule, satans releaase war and the final resurrection and lake of fire 20
then the new heavens and earth and new jerusalem 21-22

If you have a specific question, ask me

art

ARE THE ANGELS CREATED BEINGS?

The angels were created beings. They were made by the being who became jesus christ.

Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

THEY WERE CREATED TO BE SERVANTS TO MAN

Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

CAN THEY DIE?
Is it possible for spirit beings to be destroyed, or are they immortal like God? Certainly God the Father and Jesus Christ have immortality. They literally have life that is self existent. For example, the apostle Paul writes of God the Father, saying:

1Ti 6:15-16 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

A Sovereign God
God is the Almighty. He created the worlds by His word (Psalm 33:6). He upholds the universe by that same power of His word (Hebrews 2:37), and there is not a word ever spoken by God that He cannot fulfill (Luke 1:37). In that context, what does He say about spirit?
From the verses above, we see the absolute sovereignty of God. He created all things and He has complete power over all, including the spirit world. The totality of His power is clearly seen when we consider the physical creation. The apostle Paul explains:

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Realizing that when we look at the physical creation in order to understand the power of God, we see that whatever man can create, he is capable of un-creating. In addition, when we consider that man is not anywhere near as powerful as God, and that our powers are but a feint reflection of His, it becomes obvious. Man is not more powerful than God. The “eternal power” of the Almighty Godhead is so great that, without question, he can destroy anything that He can make.

What about the Devil and his Demons?
Notice the first words God utters regarding the serpent or the Devil:

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; it shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.

The Hebrew word for “bruise” is “shoof,” meaning to “crush.” The word “head” can mean chief, head, principal, or even ruler. Thus, Christ would one day destroy the one who had become mankind’s ruler—Satan the Devil. This truth is also confirmed by the apostle Paul where he makes a reference to the famous verse in Genesis. He writes:

Romans 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen

The New Testament makes this point even more forcefully. Here the Greek word for bruise is “suntribo,” and it means to “completely crush.” Satan will be completely crushed. Consider that if Satan’s end is worse than Christ’s, and if Jesus Christ was temporarily destroyed, what else can these verses mean but that Satan will be completely destroyed?

The Spirit behind the Throne
In the Old Testament, God speaks of the king of Tyre, and as the verses continue they lift to speak of the Devil. No doubt this is because the Devil was the actual power behind the king’s throne (Matthew 4:4). There can be no question however, that God is speaking of a great spirit being in these verses, and not only the human king of the city of Tyre. God says:

Eze 28:14-16 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

Based on the words that are used in both Ezekiel 28 and in many other places in the Old Covenant, a picture is created in which spirit can be destroyed, but what about the New Testament? What does it tell us about this subject?
Tormented by Impending Destruction

When we explore this subject in the New Testament, the same conclusion is reached. Spirit beings, including the devil, can be destroyed. Consider the example found in the book of Hebrews. There the author writes:

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

The author of Hebrews makes a clear statement saying that Christ will destroy the devil.

A Demon Speaks
The place of torment that the demons face is the same as the rich man who is standing before the lake of fire. They both will be destroyed in this fire. This fact is made clear from a dialogue between Christ and a demon residing in a man. The demon spoke to Jesus saying:

Mar 1:24 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.

In this verse the demon uses the term “destroy” when referring to his fate. This word is the very same one used in Matthew 10 in which Jesus says that God can destroy the spirit and the flesh. It is “apollumi” in the Greek, number 622 in Strong’s Concordance, and it means to “destroy fully,” “perish,” and to “die.” By this, the Bible makes it clear that God can destroy our spirit, and He can destroy the wicked spirits just as easily.

Reserved for Judgment
God will completely crush Satan, but when will He do this, and how will He do it? The Scriptures speak of both the time and the place that this will occur as being the judgment of the great day. This is the last day of God’s plan, ending with a massive lake of fire that burns up the heavens, the earth, and all the wicked. As Peter writes:

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.

If the angels that sinned are reserved for a judgment, what is it? What kind of judgment do they face? The book of Jude explains further:

Jud 1:6-7 the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Jude explains that it is the judgment of the great day when the fate of the fallen angels occurs. Further, he relates that it is the vengeance of eternal fire. Thus, we see that their judgment takes place at the time of the lake of fire at the very end of the age. As Matthew writes and Peter later expounds:

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

From these verses we understand that the wicked spirit beings will face a final judgment. It will be an eternal judgment, one that cannot be reversed. We also realize that in this judgment the angels will be destroyed, and it will be in the lake of fire.

aRT

A comment was made that I want to control people and take their money. That is pretty mean spirited as well as completely untrue.

I tithe. I believe in tithing, and it is the biblical system for supporting God's ministry. Anyone here can do what ever they want.

REGARDING THIS STATEMENT
Read this with me, Art.

verse 27. Who needeth not daily, as those high priests , to offer up sacrifice , first for his own sins , and then for for the people's : for this he did once , when he offered up himself.

ALL DEBTS PAID!!!! MONETARY And ALL SINS!!! PERIOD!!!!

ME NOW:
THE VERSE YOU SPEAK OF CHRIST NOW BEING THE HIGH PRIEST, AND THAT UNLIKE THE PHYSICAL HIGH PRIEST, HE DOES NOT HAVE TO GO INTO THE HOLY OF HOLIES EVERY YEAR, NEITHER DOES THERE NEED TO BE A YEARLY SACRIFICE. CONSIDER THE CONTEXT.

Heb 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Heb 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. Heb 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

SO CHRIST IS OUR HIGH PRIEST. DO YOU THINK THAT HIS ONE SACRIFICE COVERS ALL YOU FUTURE SINS? DO YOU THINK THAT YOU NOW HAVE A LICENSE TO SIN? THAT IS NOT WHAT ANY OF THESE VERSES MEAN. CHRIST SITS ON THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER AND MAKES CONSTANT INTERCESSION FOR US. IT IS NOT A SINGLE SIGN THE PAMPHLET ONE TIME ACCEPTANCE OF CHRIST THAT NOW MAKES US FREE TO BREAK THE LAW ANY TIME WE WANT. NOTICE PAUL'S ADMONATION.

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of SINS THAT ARE PAST, through the forbearance of God;

CHRIST'S SACRIFICE COVERS OUR SINS WHEN WE REPENT OF THEM. iT IS NOT SOME SORT OF FREE PASS. WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?

OUR FAITH LEADS US TO OBEY GOD. WHEN WE SLIP AND FALL, WE CAN REPENT AND WE ARE JUSTIFIED AGAIN. WE GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS DURING OUR LIVES BECOMING MORE AND MORE LIKE HE WAS. WE WALK AS HE WALKED

OUR FAITH IS NOT THAT WE WE ARE FREE FROM THE LAW, OUR FAITH LEADS US TO KEEP IT

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

YOU THEN WANT MORE FUN, SAYING

One more just for fun, Art.

Hebrews 7 : 28.

For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity ; but the word of the oath , which was since the law , maketh the Son , who is consecrated for evermore.

IT IS TALKING ABOUT CHRIST BEING A HIGH PRIEST FOREVER & WITHOUT SIN.

Art, it is time to sit down and learn and let others that don't sling mud to the teaching.

YOU CAN CONTINUE TEACHING THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO OBEY GOD, HOWEVER, IT WON'T LAST FOREVER. WHEN JESUS RETURNS, HE WILL BRING THE ENTIRE WORLD UNDER THE UMBRELLA OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD. AND THE KINGDOM UNFORTUNATELY FOR YOU, HAS A KING WHO IS NOT MOCKED. THERE IS TERRITORY AND SUBJECT, AND OH YES---LAWS.

THEN YOU PRAISE ME WITH THESE WORDS:

In your congregation, I will not be darkening the doorway, only bnecause I do not enter in =to other men's labor.

I doubt you would want me preaching there anyway.

It would undoubtedly undo your errors.

ME NOW:

IN OUR CONGREGATION, WE HAVE A Q&A AFTER EVERY MESSAGE. TRUST ME YOU WOULD BE HAMMERED--POLITELY--RESPECTULLY, BUT HAMMERED.

NEXT YOU SAY:

IN CLOSING, I WILL QUOTE HEBREWS 8 ; 11-13 that my witness be true.

11. And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother , saying , Know the Lord : for all shall know me , from the least to the greatest. 12. For I will be kind to their unrighteousness , and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more .13. In that he saith , A new covenant , he hath made first old . Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

ACTUALLY YOU MISS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THOSE VERSES. FIRST OF ALL THE BOOK OF HEBREWS IS WRITTEN TO THEM, NOT THE GENTIES, AND THEREFORE THE VERSES STATE:

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

WHAT IS THE FAULT? IS IT THE LAW? NO! THE FAULT WAS THAT THEY COULD NOT KEEP THE LAW. THE FAULT WAS WITH THE PEOPLE. THE COVENANT HE SPEAKS OF IS IN JEREMIAH 31:31 IT IS SPEAKING ABOUT AFTER CHRIST RETURNS AND SETS UP THE GOVERNMENT OF GOD ON EARTH.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

SO, THE LAW IS NOT GOING TO BE IN THE STONES, BUT IN OUR MINDS AND HEARTS IN THE FUTURE KINGDOM WHEN GOD REUNITES JUDAH AND ISRAEL.


Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

SO IS GOD'S LAW BEING WRITTEN IN YOUR HEART, OR IS YOUR HEART AGAINST THE LAW

Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

I think its old and decayed and probably not much more than dust and a memory, Art.

THE FAULT OF THE OLD COVENANT WAS NOT THE LAW. THE LAW IS HOLY, PERFECT, AND GOOD. WE ARE THE PROBLEM, NOT THE LAW. WHAT IS OLD IS THE DISOBEDIENCE. THAT DISAPPEARS IN THE NEW COVENANT AND KEEPING THE LAW IN THE SPIRIT BECOMES THE NORM.

HERE IS THE THING. YOU QUOTE OUT OF CONTEXT HERE. THINK ABOUT IT. YES THE OLD COVENANT IS PHASING OUT, AND WE ARE ESPOUSED TO CHRIST IN A NEW COVENANT. BUT DOES THAT COVENANT DO AWAY WITH GOD'S LAWS? NO! IT RAISES OUR OBEDIENCE. THE NEW COVENANT WRITES THE LAW IN OUR HEARTS. WE ARE SOLD ON THE VALUE OF HIS LAW. WE LIVE NOT BY THE LETTER OF THE LAW, BUT BY HIS SPIRIT WE UNDERSTAND AND LIVE BY THE SPIRIT OF HIS LAW:

Unless you choose to live under death and decay.

WELL, I AM STRIVING TO LIVE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT. I WANT TO KEEP GOD'S LAW IN THE SPIRIT. ISN'T DISOBEYING GOD THE FAILURE OF THE OLD COVENANT. ISN'T THAT WHAT YOU ARE PROPAGATING? ISN'T THAT WHAT IS FADING AWAY?

ANYWAY, I THINK I AM OVERCOOKED HERE. A MILLION ARGUMENTS CAN BE DEVISED TO CONVINCE PEOPLE THAT GOD NO LONGER CARES ABOUT US OBEYING HIM. i THINK THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN AND WILL ALWAYS BE THE ISSUE. WILL WE OBEY GOD OR NOT?

MORE SCRIPTURES WON'T HAVE ANY EFFECT.

Art

Regarding this post:

Art, when wishful thinking supercedes the Word, mistakes are made.

Next time quote the whole passage. Matthew17 :24-27.

I'm content with you and the readers looking it up for yourselves. It is good to open the Bible and READ it.
The tribute was to the King not to the House of God.
The metaphor was earthly Kings and the freedom teir children have from taxation.

DEAR FRIEND, IF I MAKE A MISTAKE I AM HAPPY TO ADMIT IT BECAUSE BY THAT I FIND THE TRUTH. HOWEVER, YOU HAVE NOT THOUGHT THIS ONE THROUGH --- LETS SEE IF YOU WILL DO THE SAME

NOTICE WHAT THE AUTHORITIES SAY:

BARNES NOTES:
They that received tribute - In the original this is, they who received the didrachma, or double drachma. The drachma was a Grecian coin worth about fifteen cents (7 1/2 d.) of British money. The didrachma, or double drachma, was a silver coin equal to the Attic drachma, and, in the time of Josephus, equal to the Jewish half shekel, that is, about 30 cents (circa 1880’s). This tribute, consisting of the didrachma or double drachma, was not paid to the Roman government, but to the Jewish collectors for the use of the temple service. It was permitted in the law of Moses (see Exo_30:11-16) that in numbering the people half a shekel should be received of each man for the services of religion. This was in addition to the tithes paid by the whole nation, and seems to have been considered as a voluntary offering. It was devoted to the purchase of animals for the daily sacrifice, wood, flour, salt, incense, etc., for the use of the temple.

CLARKS COMMENTARY
They that received tribute - This was not a tax to be paid to the Roman government; but a tax for the support of the temple. The law, Exo_30:13, obliged every male among the Jews to pay half a shekel yearly; for the support of the temple; and this was continued by them wherever dispersed, till after the time of Vespasian, see Josephus, War, book 7. c. 6, who ordered it afterwards to be paid into the Roman treasury. The word in the text, which is generally translated tribute - τα διδραχμα, signifies the didrachma, or two drachms. This piece of money was about the value of two Attic drachms, each equal to fifteen pence of our money. The didrachma of the Septuagint, mentioned Exo_30:13, was twice as heavy as the Attic, for it was equal to a whole shekel, this being the value of that piece of money at Alexandrina, the place where the Septuagint translation was made; for the half shekel mentioned in the above passage, they render ημισυ του διδαχμου, the half of a didrachma.

MATTHEW HENRY
1. The tribute demanded was not any civil payment to the Roman powers, that was strictly exacted by the publicans, but the church-duties, the half shekel, about fifteen pence, which were required from every person or the service of the temple, and the defraying of the expenses of the worship there; it is called a ransom for the soul, Exo_30:12, etc. This was not so strictly exacted now as sometimes it had been, especially not in Galilee.

JFB
the double drachma; a sum equal to two Attic drachmas, and corresponding to the Jewish “half-shekel,” payable, towards the maintenance of the temple and its services, by every male Jew of twenty years old and upward. For the origin of this annual tax, see Exo_30:13, Exo_30:14; 2Ch_24:6, 2Ch_24:9.

THEN IN ANOTHE PLACE YOU STATE:

And then He said, " and unto God that which is God's".

What is God's, Art??????????

I am God's , Art.

YOU CAN SAY THAT YOU ARE GOD'S BUT HE SAYS THAT YOU BELONG TO HIM IF YOU KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. ARE YOU SURE YOU HAVE NOT BEEN DECEIVED ON THIS. FROM YOUR POST HERE, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE DECEIVED ON SOME THING. WHAT IF SOMETHING SO BIG AS NOT NEEDING TO KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS WAS WRONG, AND THAT IS WHY THE CHURCHES ARE SO CORRUPT? THEY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THEIR CORRUPTION AFTER ALL THEY LOVE GOD DON'T THEY? WELL THEY SAY THEY DO, BUT WHAT IS THE PROOF?

GOD SAYS:
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

THIS IS THE PROOF -- ANYTHING ELSE IS LIES

1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1Jo 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

DON'T BELIEVE THE PREACHERS, BELIEVE THE WORDS OF CHRIST

must stop now...........

Art

There is 'no' and I repeat 'no' evidence or mention in the new testament for tithing.

Why would there need to be a mention of it if everyone knew it was the policy of God? The priesthood continued to 70 AD and Priests came into the church. The people tithed to the priests.

Act 6:7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

When the issue of circumcision and the offense of gentiles in the Jewish community came up, the church held a conference over this. Do you think if tithing we changed they would not have to have a conference? When they made the decision in the conference they only required 4 things that would offend jews. they did not limit these as the only things. Of course they could not have another god, idols or take god's name in vain. Why only give them those four? They tells the answer:

Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Don't you see it? The gentiles were expected to attend the synogogue each Sabbath. They would hear all the law expounded there.

I recognize your' train of thought, but there is no sacrafices in the future from "now".

Of course there will be sacrifices in the millennium. Check Zec 14:end of chapter.


The sabbath is now spiritual as well as the tithe.

Ok, the scriptures show Christ keeping the Sabbath. They show Paul keeping it. They show the gentiles keeping it. Hebrews says there remains a sabbath rest. In fact our Sabbath is to be like His was at creation.

Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Ok, God rested. He stopped working. But, you say that the Sabbath is now spiritual. Could you show us what the bible says a spiritual sabbath is? See, you set it up again so that you have the control, and you make the decisions--not God. I say let Him define the Sabbath not us.

The schoolmaster is obsolete. I've seen people blessed with and without the tithe,

So, do you think that the blessing is just money? What about insight spiritually? What about understanding? What about more of His spirit? What is that is the blessing, not just money in the New Covenant?

it is a condition of the heart as is that is what matters to God, not if you "paid up" what you owe.

the condition of the heart is seen in the actions of the body. You will do what you want. If you want to obey God, you will. If you don't want to obey Him, you will find excuses, verses, reasons, justification and here is why according to Paul:

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

The mere thought is ridiculous. it's funny that the only law we want to keep in church and oppress people with has to do with money.

This is a problem. The church wants to do away with the law to attract people. Then they want to keep this law for their own selves. All that is true. But, the truth is they should not do away with any of the law of God.

Pathetic. Supported by obscure interpretations of scripture. nothing solid whatsoever.

Yes, I am pathetic, and my scriptures are all obscure. You know like these for instance:

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: THESE YOU OUGHT TO HAVE DONE, and not to leave the other undone.

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

THESE SCRIPTURES SPEAK OF THE OLD TESTAMENT AND THE LAW THERE WAS NO NEW TESTAMENT AT THIS TIME.

1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1Jo 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. 1Jo 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

gotta go friends,

Art