From "church of the homeless" forum

I just wanted to set people free from this burdensome junk. Many people teach this out of passed down ignorance, but from Gods word and my own experience we all need to be free from this Laws control issue. Attacking the principal here, not the people that ignorantly follow it.

If we stop teaching useless laws and out of date 'ordinances' many more can be drawn to salvation and we can press on to freedom.


Article:
Tithing

In the beginning the devil came to Eve while Adam was with her and told her enough truth with his lies to get her to do what he wanted her to do. As I have walked in this teaching of tithing I have seen this same spirit work in this issue. God did not ask me to judge anyone so please do not think for one minute I am pointing a finger at anyone…the Spirit of God will teach through God’s word what is true. I will say here however that if you are a leader…teacher…or pastor and you have not done a heart check on your giving issues it is time you did. What are your motives for asking people to give? Remember God knows the truth… so you should sure seek the truth of your reasoning also. Remember God’s blessings are not for sale, if you are telling people that if they don’t give to you or your ministry God will not bless them… I fear for you, God has put leaders in His trust to teach truth. If you are going to teach people to give and believe God will provide their needs throught this giving in faith … you also must trust God to meet your needs with out putting pressure on the people you teach. Free willed giving is what pleases God!

(Titus 1:9-11 KJV) Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

To the bros & sisses.

i agree with you 100%.its why the television preachers who ask for money to say prayers etc make me sick.

I wholeheartedly agree that ministers should not ask for money. It trivializes God and cheapens what is holy. God never says to ask for money. He is no begger. However, the reason that they should not have to ask is because they should be following the system of tithing that God set up so that they would not have to beg and by doing so, demean what is sacred.

Regarding this statement:

"I just wanted to set people free from this burdensome junk. Many people teach this out of passed down ignorance, but from Gods word and my own experience we all need to be free from this Laws control issue. Attacking the principal here, not the people that ignorantly follow it."

Are you saying that God's holy law is burdensome junk? Are you saying that His law no longer exists? Are you saying that people are ignorant for following what God has said to do?

By way of reminder, here are a few statements from the Almighty one:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (to do it)
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Want to be least?

1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jo 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Jesus tithed:

But, then what commandments is John talking about? New ones, different ones? No!

1Jo 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

Regarding the tithing issue, Jesus said to the pharisees that they tithed on minuscule things. Then He told them that they should tithe on these things, but they were not to omit the important part of the law, like judgment, faith and mercy.

How about at the end of the age? Does God expect us to tithe at the end of the age, nearly 2000 years after Christ died and rose again?

Notice the famous verse on tithing in Malachi. Is it speaking about old worn out laws? Is it speaking of things that were to be done away? Is it speaking of only the Old Covenant time? Or is it speaking of the end of the age just before Christ's second coming?

Mal 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap: Mal 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness. Mal 3:4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.

From this we see that the scriptures are speaking of Christ's second coming. They speak of His soon coming millennial rule. None of this occurred from His first coming.

Does He change? Does He require some to tithe and not others? Notice his words in this context:

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

So, God does not change. His law of tithing does not change. It may be administered differently with the end of the Levitial system, but it is not done away or changed. In this context, God speaks of tithing, saying:

Mal 3:7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?

The people in the Old Covenant did not keep God's law. And, we still don't do it today. But, people ask what does God expect us to do in order to return to Him? God answers:

Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

Do you think that God has no authority over our lives? Do you think we can do anything we wish and He accepts it? Does God have any authority over anything in our lives? Of course, He has complete authority over our lives, but only if we submit to his authority.

God never says we are free to break the law. He says that He came to make us from from sin, and sin is breaking the law (jn 3:5) He came to make us free from the penalty of the law.

Consider that after Christ returns, He will establish Jerusalem and there will be a temple built there. The priesthood will be reestablished and people will tithe (Ezek 40-48). What makes anyone think it is not required of us now? Abraham tithed, Jacob tithed, and when Israel was made a nation, the administration was changed to the Levites. Christ kept the law. He tithed, and when He returns the saints will be raised to rule with Him. They will teach the world God's way. Tithing will be a part of His ecconomic plan then, and used to support the priests in the millennium. But, for some reason, we think we will be in that resurrection, we will teach people to keep God's law then, but we don't have to do it now.

Doesn't work for me,

These are tough times.

The world is shrinking.

We can touch so much with a mouse and a click.

The American Churchianity is seriously corrupting the truth.

Men in advantage and privelege enjoy the refreshment of their egoes more than the refreshment of walking away from their own death and into the life of consecration to the guidancce and direction of the Holy Spirit for the sake of God and Man and through our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Die to the flesh and be renewed in the Spirit of your mind to serve Him and Him only .

Especially those so doing being ordained of God and MAN. ( you know who you are and whose you are )

To those that are ordained by God and so equipped with the Holy Spirit and baptised with fire, I say do what you can and fight off the appearance of the evils that the world suspects of us and walk circumspectly and humbly serving our Lord from the heart with truth and not allow money and encumberances and distractions and unnecessary weights to become a burden and snare to your liberties and will in serving Him.

If anyone think himself to be above this, he is misguided and ill-equipped to share the truth.

While serving God, is not God serving you and making way for your needs?

We know it is so.

Let us pray for wisdom and then follow Him.








Jesus paid no tithe. He said, "render unto cesaer the things that are cesaer's. Pay your taxes.

We the church, are the tithe.

The tithes were paid to the priests for their sustenance within the Nation of Israel and as such was their portion of their inheritance in the land at the time. They were also given to live in the cities. This was their gift as of the tribe of Levi, which is the priesthood by birthright and the will of God.

This nation or any secular nation on Earth does not apply as it is the work of man and the new covenant made in the shed blood at calvary does not require the burdens of the law of the Nation of Israel.

We are the Kingdom of God and the household of faith called in the name of the Son of God : Jesus the Christ.

All things are His. He needs not our money by force, nor by compulsion. Let it be by free will.

And if your needs are met and money is scarce, be prudent and provide for your needs. But always remember Him with your time.

Time is a borrowed commodity. Food for thought

http://www.geocities.com/hotsprings/3658/tithing.html

i read this on tithing and found it interesting as i always thought it was taking one tenth of your food and throwing a meal for the less fortunate in the community or donate one tenth of your income to charitable causes.i was way off..

you cute lil devil....

you need a new name.

check out the link folks. It says it better than I could.

same same, but I love being fly

i'm the mom not the cute lil devil. thats my son.he is named correctly..

Those who live by the law will be judged by it Billing. there's more info at 'Church for the Homeless'. God says that the heart is the matter. If you tithe and do it unto God, so be it. The Levitical ordinance of tithing, however is not a requirement today, as is no other ordinance or 'sacrifice' from old testament 'law'. Many stay away from God just because of this issue, "pay up or go to Hell" is what the godless hear. No one should feel that this is an absolute requirement, it's most definitely not. New testament church does not preach it in the bible, it's a twisting of words used to fuel 'big business' church and send more clones to Cemetary (I mean Seminary).

Get freedom, choose Christ and grace, not self righteousness and law. Check the scriptures "in context" for yourself, stop letting the peddlers feed you lines. Catholisism is an extreme of this. Love Catholic people- hate the 'establishment'

Wouldee is very right on this.


ya always would'.

Regarding this statement:

"Jesus paid no tithe. He said, "render unto cesaer the things that are cesaer's. Pay your taxes."

Do you really think that Jesus said we should pay our taxes to man, and He did not think we had any obligation to God? Is man more important than God? Evidently.

To me, you do a terrible disservice to the people on this forum because you quote part of the scripture and not the rest. Thus you can mislead people.

Here is the entire verse:

Mat 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

So, Christ said to give to Caesar what was his--taxes. But, He also said that we are to give unto God what is His--the tithers. In fact He says we rob him if we don't give them to Him. Are you sure you want to teach people to rob God?

On another level, you state that Jesus did not pay tithes. Of course He did. We have the example of Christ even paying the temple tax which he said He was not obligated to pay, but He did it so as not to offend (mat 17:24)

Think this one through. Christ had to pay tithes when on earth. If he did not pay them, He would have sinned. We would have no Savior. So, you can thank Him for paying His tithe.

Art

A Change in Administration
Tithing was the system that God’s people had always understood and practiced from the beginning. Abraham tithed. Jacob tithed. It was never done away, but the administration of it was changed when God created the nation of Israel. At that time, He commanded that the tithe was now to go to the Levitical priests.


When, God shut down the nation of Israel by the destruction of the Temple and the subsequent end of the Priesthood, God made another change in administration of the tithe. He changed who would not receive them.

In the same way that there was a change in the administration of God’s tithe from the time of the Patriarchs to that of the Levites, there was also another change in administration of the tithe made with the birth of the New Covenant. This change is clearly spelled out in the book of Hebrews. Written in approximately 64 A.D., just before the destruction of the temple and dissolution of the priesthood, this book was produced to inform the Hebrews what would remain.
With the devastation of the Temple, the priesthood was scattered. Its ministry was terminated, and with it, the ceremonial washings and sacrifices came to an end. But what would replace that system? Jesus had said that the law would continue until the very heavens and earth were no more (Matthew 5:17-23). But ---what about the law of tithing?
With the ascension of Jesus Christ into the heavens to function as our High Priest, there were many changes. Access to the Father in the Holy of Holies was no longer denied to all but the High Priest. It was now accessible to all those who were reconciled to God through Christ (Hebrews 2:17-18, 9:1-8).
The ceremonial laws were a kind of schoolmaster to bring people to Christ. Now they were no longer necessary for those who believed (Hebrews 9:1-14). Christ had come, and such laws were now a distraction from the reality. However, the author makes it clear that the Sabbath would remain. As the more literal Revised Standard translation states:

So then, there remains a sabbath rest for the people of God; for whoever enters God’s rest also ceases from his labors as God did from his (Hebrews 4:9-10, RSV).

The scriptures make it plain that the Sabbath would remain, but what about tithing? Would it also remain? The author of Hebrews provides an explanation. He prefaces his answer with the fact that Jesus and Melchizedek are one and the same. In that context, the author of Hebrews writes:

Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually. (Hebrews 6:19-7:3).

Jesus Christ, who appeared to Abraham as the priest Melchizedek, is now our High Priest forever. The tithe has always belonged to Him. As the author records, Melchizedek took the tithe directly from Abraham:

Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils. And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham: But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises (Hebrews 7:4-6).

With the introduction of the Levitical priesthood there was the need for a change in the administration of the law of tithing. The Levites were given a commandment from God to receive His tithes for Him. And with Christ’s ascension to the throne of God as our High Priest, followed by the destruction of the temple and the abolition of the physical Priesthood, there was another change necessary in the administration of the law. The author of Hebrews states:

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law (Hebrews 7:12).

What law is being spoken of? The law of tithing! But what is changed? Has the law of tithing been done away? Does it no longer apply? No! The law of tithing is not done away. The tithe still belongs to Melchizedek, but it is no longer to be paid to the Levites. It is administered today by His true ministers for the work of preaching the gospel.
When Christ returns to this earth, He will once again make a change in the administration of the tithe. Christ will restore again to the Levites their offices of service in His ministry. God prophesies:

And the Levites that are gone away far from me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity. Yet they shall be ministers in my sanctuary, having charge at the gates of the house, and ministering to the house: they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister unto them (Ezekiel 44:10-11).

At this future time, the priests will again be supported by the tithe. The tithe will still belong to Melchizedek, but it will then once again be administered by the Levites. The book of Hebrews makes it clear that God still expects His people to tithe today. In the Millennial Kingdom, the tithe will go to the priests who will serve at the temple, but today it is directed to the ministers of God’s Church today--not the tv pretenders.

Art

There is 'no' and I repeat 'no' evidence or mention in the new testament for tithing. I recognize your' train of thought, but there is no sacrafices in the future from "now". The sabbath is now spiritual as well as the tithe. The schoolmaster is obsolete. I've seen people blessed with and without the tithe, it is a condition of the heart as is that is what matters to God, not if you "paid up" what you owe. The mere thought is ridiculous. it's funny that the only law we want to keep in church and oppress people with has to do with money. Pathetic. Supported by obscure interpretations of scripture. nothing solid whatsoever.

Art, when wishful thinking supercedes the Word, mistakes are made.

Next time quote the whole passage. Matthew17 :24-27.

I'm content with you and the readers looking it up for yourselves.

It is good to open the Bible and READ it.

The tribute was to the King not to the House of God.

The metaphor was earthly Kings and the freedom teir children have from taxation.

The practical application is that the Children of God are free.

But nevertheless, Christ, by way of Peter, paid the tribute to the King so as to not offend.

These are not priests. Read what is as it is.

PAY YOUR TAXES!!!!!!!!!


Matthew 21 : 15-21 . SAme thing...Tribute...TAXES!!!

The Pharisees sought to trap Him and make him say that his followers are free of tribute.

This is subsequent to the event in Capernaum. So they sent Herodians to question Him.

The Lord called them hypocrites and offered them the the inscription on the coin. Caesar's image. Hence, "Render unto Caesar, that which is Caesars".



And then He said, " and unto God that which is God's".


What is God's, Art??????????

I am God's , Art.

HERE ARE SOME EXCERPTS FROM THE RECOMMENDED ARTICLE. TO ME IT IS AN EXAMPLE OF PEOPLE WANTING TO BELIEVE WHAT THEY LIKE TO BELIEVE AND WHO WILL TWIST THE SCRIPTURES TO MAKE IT APPEAR THAT THEY ARE DOING RIGHT. PLEASE LOOK AT SOME OF THE STUFF THEY DO IN THE ARTICLE THAT IS PRAISED ON THIS THREAD.

THE ARTICLE
You cannot ‘give’ to God.

GOD PAYS TRIBUTE TO THE WIDOW WHO GAVE TO GOD OF HER PENURY
GOD SAYS GIVE AND IT WILL BE GIVEN TO YOU.
GOD SAYS:
Mar 12:17 Render (give) to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and (GIVE) to God the things that are God's.

WE ARE TO GIVE GOD WHAT HE SAYS TO GIVE TO HIM

THE ARTICLE: MOCKING THAT ABRAHAM TITHED, SAYS:

The first thing you find is that the “everything” in question did not belong to Abram. It was the property of other people, including Abram’s nephew, Lot, who had been captured by the armies of several kings.

OF COURSE IT WAS THE SPOIL BELONGING TO OTHERS. YOUR WAGES THAT YOU GET ARE TAKEN FROM OTHERS TOO.

THE ARTICLE
Notice Abram’s statements in verses 22-24. He owned none of the property in question before the battle and, although entitled to the spoils as the victor, he refused to take any of it: “I will accept nothing belonging to you…” (v.23).
Abram gave away ten per cent of other people’s stuff, in a representative act of thanksgiving to God on behalf of some people who had been miraculously rescued from a life of slavery.

THE BIBLE DOES NOT SAY IT WAS AN ACT OF THANKSGIVING. WHAT IN THE WORLD WOULD MAKE YOU THINK THAT WHEN THE NUMBER IS 10%. THAT IS NO ARBITRARY NUMBER --IT IS A TITHE AND IN FACT THAT IS WHAT THE BIBLE CALLS IT, NOT A THANKS GIVING OFFERING. THIS STUFF IS CRAZY MAKING--NUTS!

Gen 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

THE ARTICLE:
This was a once-only event.

NO ABSOLUTELY NOT. GOD'S LAW EXISTED BEFORE ABRAHAM, AND IT WAS KEPT BY ABRAHAM. NOTICE GOD'S COMMENT ABOUT HIM

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws

ABRAHAM KEPT GOD'S TEN COMMANDMENTS. HE KEPT THE APPOINTED DAYS, AND THE LAW OF TITHING.

THE SAME WITH JACOB, HE COMMITTED A TITHE NOT GIVE THANK OFFERINGS THIS ARTICLE IS TWISTING THE TRUTH -- CAN'T YOU SEE IT


THE ARTICLE:

Then Jacob made a vow, saying, “If God will be with me and will watch over me on this journey I am taking and will give me food to eat and clothes to wear so that I return safely to my father’s house, then the Lord will be my God and this stone that I have set up as a pillar will be God’s house, and of all that you give me I will give you a tenth” (Genesis 28:20-22).

“See,” they say, “tithing was a necessary practice way back in the days of Jacob, long before the Law was given.”

But read exactly what Jacob said in Genesis 28:20-22.

1. He made a vow, a promise (and there is no record in the Bible that he ever kept that promise.)

DON'T YOU SEE THAT THIS REASONING IS SICK? JACOB COMES BACK A RICH MAN FOR OBEYING GOD. THIS IS A CLEAR CASE OF TRANSFERENCE. THE AUTHOR GOES BACK ON HIS PROMISES TO GOD SO HE THINKS GREAT HEROES OF FAITH LIKE JACOB DID TOO. IS NO ONE ELSE IS GETTING CRAZY OVER THIS EXCEPT ME?

THE ARTICLE:

2. It was a conditional promise. Notice the five conditions:
IF God will be with me;
IF God will watch over me;
IF God will give me food to eat;
IF God will give me clothes to wear; and
IF I return safely to my father’s house
(which didn’t happen until some twenty years later…),
THEN, and only then, can God have 10% of whatever He gives me.

If that is “tithing”, feel free to make a list of everything you want from God and — once you have received it all — start making your once-every-twenty-year payments.

THIS IS THE AUTHOR OF THIS ARTICLE'S TITHING. IT IS NOT GOD'S.
IN THE BEGINNING OF THE ARTICLE THE AUTHOR EXPLAINS CORRECTLY THAT WE CAN'T BARTER WITH GOD. THEN HE SHOWS JACOB BARTERING BECAUSE IT SERVES HIS PURPOSE. DO NOT TRUST PEOPLE WHO TELL YOU NOT TO OBEY GOD.

I BESEECH READERS TO CONSIDER HOW THIS IS TWISTED. GOD CAME TO JACOB FIRST. GOD TOLD HIM HE WOULD BLESS HIM FIRST. THERE WAS NO CONDITIONS THAT JACOB SET! READ IT:

Gen 28:14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed. Gen 28:15 And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of. Gen 28:16 And Jacob awaked out of his sleep, and he said, Surely the LORD is in this place; and I knew it not.

JACOB IS ONLY REITERATING WHAT GOD SAID TO HIM, HE IS NOT BARTERING WITH GOD ---HE IS ACCEPTING GOD'S PROMISE

Gen 28:20 And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, Gen 28:21 So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God: Gen 28:22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

GOD DID NOT MENTI0N ANY GIVING THE TITHE. JACOB KNEW THAT WAS THE AMOUNT BEFORE THIS TIME.

I CANNOT GO THROUGH THE ENTIRE ARTICLE, BUT THE TRUTH IS IT IS CLEARLY TWISTING SCRIPTURE TO WIN THE ARGUMENT. IF PEOPLE ARE NOT STUDYING THEIR BIBLES AND ONLY LISTENING TO WHAT THESE PREACHERS WRITE ABOUT WITHOUT CHECKING IT OUT, THEN YOU WILL BE MISLED.

PLEASE CONSIDER THE MIND SET OF THESE KINDS OF MEN. WE ARE TO GIVE TO THE STATE. WE ARE TO GIVE TO THE POOR. WE ARE TO GIVE TO OUR FAMILY. WE ARE TO GIVE TO WHOM EVER WE WANT. BUT --WE DON'T HAVE TO GIVE TO GOD.

WE MUST OBEY THE GOVERNMENT, WE MUST OBEY OUR BOSS AT WORK, BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO OBEY GOD.

GET THE POINT. THE ISSUE IS THIS. WE DO WHAT WE WANT AND GOD LOVES ME NO MATTER WHAT I DO. GOD ONLY CARES ABOUT OUR HEART, AND AS LONG AS WE LOVE HIM IN OUR HEART, NO MATTER WHAT WE DO, WE DON'T SIN. THIS IS THE ANCIENT GNOSTIC THINKING, AND IT IS DEAD WRONG.

CHRIST STATES:
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

PLEASE UNDERSTAND WHAT CHRIST SAYS NEXT

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

WHAT IS THE FATHER'S WILL? IS IT JUST TO HAVE NICE FEELINGS IN OUR HEART? OR IS THE FATHER'S WILL WHAT IS WRITTEN IN THE SCRIPTURES?

CONSIDER WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE THAT CHRIST SPEAKS OF IN THE NEXT VERSE?

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

CERTAINLY THE TV GUYS, AND WITHOUT APOLOGY, I SUGGEST THE AUTHOR OF THIS ARTICLE.

WHAT IS THE ULTIMATE END? WHAT FRUIT IS GOD LOOKING FOR?

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

THOSE WHO WORK INIQUITY WHICH IS LAWLESSNES WILL NOT BE IN THE KINGDOM. THEY CAN PREACH CHRIST ALL THEY WANT. THEY CAN SAY PRAISE YOU JESUS OVER AND OVER UNTIL WE SICK OF HEARING IT, BUT IT THEY DO NOT OBEY GOD, THEY WILL BE OUT

WHERE DO YOU WANT TO BE?

Art

Art, Here is the following passage Hebrews 7 :8.

And here men receive tithes ; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

vs 12. For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. KJV


From here to vaerse 26 there is no mention of tithe until this statement in verse 27.

Read this with me, Art.

verse 27. Who needeth not daily, as those high priests , to offer up sacrifice , first for his own sins , and then for for the people's : for this he did once , when he offered up himself.

ALL DEBTS PAID!!!! MONETARY And ALL SINS!!! PERIOD!!!!



One more just for fun, Art.

Hebrews 7 : 28.

For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity ; but the word of the oath , which was since the law , maketh the Son , who is consecrated for evermore.


Art, it is time to sit down and learn and let others that don't sling mud to the teaching.

In your congregation, I will not be darkening the doorway, only bnecause I do not enter in =to other men's labor.

I doubt you would want me preaching there anyway.

It would undoubtedly undo your errors.


IN CLOSING, I WILL QUOTE HEBREWS 8 ; 11-13 that my witness be true.


11. And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother , saying , Know the Lord : for all shall know me , from the least to the greatest.

12. For I will be kind to their unrighteousness , and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more .

13. In that he saith , A new covenant , he hath made first old . Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


I think its old and decayed and probably not much more than dust and a memory, Art.

Unless you choose to live under death and decay.





TELL EVERYONE THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS FREE AND AVAILABLE AND QUIT STEALING THE TRUTH FROM THE CHILDREN.

THE ONES THAT HAVE PAID YOU CANNOT BUY THIS, ART!!!!!!!!


May the Lord bless you and guide all that you do that it be well with your soul . amen.

So, for you good people who have not been in such churches as the one that Art does mark with his presence, you see the problem,

Problem : give me control and your money and I will dispense with the truth.

symptom: incoherence.





Now then, you can buy a Bible at WalMart for $10.oo and read it for yourself and get SO MUCH MORE even if you don't know what you are doing.


The gospel is free. The world changed 2000 years ago.

The world of man is freed from the bondages but remnants of that bondage are still in their death throes today.

Those death throes are ghosts. Fiction. Non-existent.

The promises are at hand. They are free. Learn what is the Free Gift of God and receive it. Do not be deceived.

If anyone is actually following this thread, quietly pray to God and ask in Jesus name for the empowering of the Holy Spirit.

Make your requests known, but please do not ignore the opportunity to fill your soul with truth. It is what it is.

I am sure you understand that I cannot answer every post and ever sleep. I realize that people are going to believe what they want to believe and they want to believe that they have no obligation to God when it comes to their money.

Regarding this post that says:

God says that the heart is the matter.

OF COURSE THE HEART IS THE MATTER. WHAT DO WE LOVE? OBEYING GOD OR OUR MONEY? WE CAN ALL SAY THAT WE LOVE GOD, BUT WHAT IS HIS CRITERIA FOR LOVE. NOTICE WHAT GOD SAYS:

1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

THEN YOU SAY

If you tithe and do it unto God, so be it. The Levitical ordinance of tithing, however is not a requirement today, as is no other ordinance or 'sacrifice' from old testament 'law'.

OF COURSE THIS IS TRUE. THERE IS NO LEVITICAL PRIESTHOOD TO TITHE TO. THE SCRIPTURES SHOW THAT THERE IS A CHANGE IN THE LAW SO THAT THE TITHE GOES TO MELCHISEDEK--CHRIST

LOOK, I UNDERSTAND YOUR ANIMOSITY FOR THE BUSINESS OF RELIGION THAT IS FALSE TODAY, BUT YOU ARE THROWING OUT THE BABY WITH THE BATHWATER. YOU REJECT THEM, AS WELL YOU SHOULD, BUT DON'T REJECT GOD'S WORD. DON'T THINK BECAUSE YOU SEE THROUGH THEIR HYPOCRISY THAT YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO CHANGE WHAT GOD HAS SAID.

Many stay away from God just because of this issue, "pay up or go to Hell" is what the godless hear. No one should feel that this is an absolute requirement, it's most definitely not. New testament church does not preach it in the bible, it's a twisting of words used to fuel 'big business' church and send more clones to Cemetary (I mean Seminary).

IF YOUR LOGIC WAS TRUE, THEN WE SHOULD SAY, AS SOME CHURCHES ARE SAYING, THAT YOU KNOW WHEN IT SAYS NO FORNICATION, IT JUST SCARES PEOPLE AWAY FROM JESUS. WE DON'T WANT TO DO THAT, SO WE JUST SAY, THE LAW IS DONE AWAY-- RIGHT?

Get freedom, choose Christ and grace, not self righteousness and law.

SEE YOU THINK THAT GRACE IS OPPOSED TO LAW. YOU THINK THAT ANYONE WHO KEEPS GOD'S LAW IS SELF RIGHTEOUS. BUT THINK. GOD'S LAW IS NOT SELF RIGHTEOUS. THE PHARISEES MADE THEIR OWN LAW IT WAS SELF RIGHTEOUS. YOU TOO HAVE MADE YOUR OWN LAW. YOU DECIDE, YOU ARE LIKE GOD. GOD SAYS TO TITHE, HE SAYS YOU ROB ME IF YOU DON'T, AND HE SAYS KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. YOU SAY, NO! YOU SAY THE FREEDOM CHRIST BROUGHT IS FREEDOM FROM KEEPING HIS LAW. THE BIBLE SAYS THAT THE FREEDOM CHRIST BROUGHT IS FREEDOM FROM SIN, WHICH IS BREAKING THE LAW.

Check the scriptures "in context" for yourself, stop letting the peddlers feed you lines. Catholisism is an extreme of this. Love Catholic people- hate the 'establishment'

YOU ARE AVOIDING THE CONTEXT. THE CONTEXT OF THE ENTIRE BIBLE IS DISOBEYING GOD IS SIN, AND CHRIST HAD TO PAY THE PENALTY FOR OUR BREAKING THE LAW, AND HE SENT HIS SPIRIT TO ENABLE US TO KEEP THE LAW, AND HE MADE A NEW COVENANT THAT WRITES THE LAW IN OUR HEARTS AND MINDS.

I AM NOT ACCEPTING SOME DOCTRINES THAT WERE PEDDLED TO ME BY MEN. I AM QUOTING THE SCRIPTURES GIVEN BY GOD.

By the way, please forgive the all caps thing. I am not yelling , I just don't know how to separate your stuff from mine yet.

Art

Art, read the responses and respond accordingly and stop peddling lies.

Wake up.

Pray.

Be still and rest.

There is 'no' and I repeat 'no' evidence or mention in the new testament for tithing.

Why would there need to be a mention of it if everyone knew it was the policy of God? The priesthood continued to 70 AD and Priests came into the church. The people tithed to the priests.

Act 6:7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

When the issue of circumcision and the offense of gentiles in the Jewish community came up, the church held a conference over this. Do you think if tithing we changed they would not have to have a conference? When they made the decision in the conference they only required 4 things that would offend jews. they did not limit these as the only things. Of course they could not have another god, idols or take god's name in vain. Why only give them those four? They tells the answer:

Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Don't you see it? The gentiles were expected to attend the synogogue each Sabbath. They would hear all the law expounded there.

I recognize your' train of thought, but there is no sacrafices in the future from "now".

Of course there will be sacrifices in the millennium. Check Zec 14:end of chapter.


The sabbath is now spiritual as well as the tithe.

Ok, the scriptures show Christ keeping the Sabbath. They show Paul keeping it. They show the gentiles keeping it. Hebrews says there remains a sabbath rest. In fact our Sabbath is to be like His was at creation.

Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Ok, God rested. He stopped working. But, you say that the Sabbath is now spiritual. Could you show us what the bible says a spiritual sabbath is? See, you set it up again so that you have the control, and you make the decisions--not God. I say let Him define the Sabbath not us.

The schoolmaster is obsolete. I've seen people blessed with and without the tithe,

So, do you think that the blessing is just money? What about insight spiritually? What about understanding? What about more of His spirit? What is that is the blessing, not just money in the New Covenant?

it is a condition of the heart as is that is what matters to God, not if you "paid up" what you owe.

the condition of the heart is seen in the actions of the body. You will do what you want. If you want to obey God, you will. If you don't want to obey Him, you will find excuses, verses, reasons, justification and here is why according to Paul:

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

The mere thought is ridiculous. it's funny that the only law we want to keep in church and oppress people with has to do with money.

This is a problem. The church wants to do away with the law to attract people. Then they want to keep this law for their own selves. All that is true. But, the truth is they should not do away with any of the law of God.

Pathetic. Supported by obscure interpretations of scripture. nothing solid whatsoever.

Yes, I am pathetic, and my scriptures are all obscure. You know like these for instance:

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: THESE YOU OUGHT TO HAVE DONE, and not to leave the other undone.

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

THESE SCRIPTURES SPEAK OF THE OLD TESTAMENT AND THE LAW THERE WAS NO NEW TESTAMENT AT THIS TIME.

1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1Jo 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. 1Jo 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

gotta go friends,

Art

Regarding this post:

Art, when wishful thinking supercedes the Word, mistakes are made.

Next time quote the whole passage. Matthew17 :24-27.

I'm content with you and the readers looking it up for yourselves. It is good to open the Bible and READ it.
The tribute was to the King not to the House of God.
The metaphor was earthly Kings and the freedom teir children have from taxation.

DEAR FRIEND, IF I MAKE A MISTAKE I AM HAPPY TO ADMIT IT BECAUSE BY THAT I FIND THE TRUTH. HOWEVER, YOU HAVE NOT THOUGHT THIS ONE THROUGH --- LETS SEE IF YOU WILL DO THE SAME

NOTICE WHAT THE AUTHORITIES SAY:

BARNES NOTES:
They that received tribute - In the original this is, they who received the didrachma, or double drachma. The drachma was a Grecian coin worth about fifteen cents (7 1/2 d.) of British money. The didrachma, or double drachma, was a silver coin equal to the Attic drachma, and, in the time of Josephus, equal to the Jewish half shekel, that is, about 30 cents (circa 1880’s). This tribute, consisting of the didrachma or double drachma, was not paid to the Roman government, but to the Jewish collectors for the use of the temple service. It was permitted in the law of Moses (see Exo_30:11-16) that in numbering the people half a shekel should be received of each man for the services of religion. This was in addition to the tithes paid by the whole nation, and seems to have been considered as a voluntary offering. It was devoted to the purchase of animals for the daily sacrifice, wood, flour, salt, incense, etc., for the use of the temple.

CLARKS COMMENTARY
They that received tribute - This was not a tax to be paid to the Roman government; but a tax for the support of the temple. The law, Exo_30:13, obliged every male among the Jews to pay half a shekel yearly; for the support of the temple; and this was continued by them wherever dispersed, till after the time of Vespasian, see Josephus, War, book 7. c. 6, who ordered it afterwards to be paid into the Roman treasury. The word in the text, which is generally translated tribute - τα διδραχμα, signifies the didrachma, or two drachms. This piece of money was about the value of two Attic drachms, each equal to fifteen pence of our money. The didrachma of the Septuagint, mentioned Exo_30:13, was twice as heavy as the Attic, for it was equal to a whole shekel, this being the value of that piece of money at Alexandrina, the place where the Septuagint translation was made; for the half shekel mentioned in the above passage, they render ημισυ του διδαχμου, the half of a didrachma.

MATTHEW HENRY
1. The tribute demanded was not any civil payment to the Roman powers, that was strictly exacted by the publicans, but the church-duties, the half shekel, about fifteen pence, which were required from every person or the service of the temple, and the defraying of the expenses of the worship there; it is called a ransom for the soul, Exo_30:12, etc. This was not so strictly exacted now as sometimes it had been, especially not in Galilee.

JFB
the double drachma; a sum equal to two Attic drachmas, and corresponding to the Jewish “half-shekel,” payable, towards the maintenance of the temple and its services, by every male Jew of twenty years old and upward. For the origin of this annual tax, see Exo_30:13, Exo_30:14; 2Ch_24:6, 2Ch_24:9.

THEN IN ANOTHE PLACE YOU STATE:

And then He said, " and unto God that which is God's".

What is God's, Art??????????

I am God's , Art.

YOU CAN SAY THAT YOU ARE GOD'S BUT HE SAYS THAT YOU BELONG TO HIM IF YOU KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. ARE YOU SURE YOU HAVE NOT BEEN DECEIVED ON THIS. FROM YOUR POST HERE, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE DECEIVED ON SOME THING. WHAT IF SOMETHING SO BIG AS NOT NEEDING TO KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS WAS WRONG, AND THAT IS WHY THE CHURCHES ARE SO CORRUPT? THEY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THEIR CORRUPTION AFTER ALL THEY LOVE GOD DON'T THEY? WELL THEY SAY THEY DO, BUT WHAT IS THE PROOF?

GOD SAYS:
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

THIS IS THE PROOF -- ANYTHING ELSE IS LIES

1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1Jo 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

DON'T BELIEVE THE PREACHERS, BELIEVE THE WORDS OF CHRIST

must stop now...........

Art

Tithing is not a "commandment". It's a law, an outdated and non spiritual one. You're sooo wrapped up in legality. I see now why people can't stand christians. blah blah blah in circles and try to "reason out" their personal points of view. Honestly sir, your type of mentality is why the gifts of the spirit are sparse these days. Trust Him as a child, that's where the focus should be.

Sorry wouldee, I somehow missed a couple of your responses. You have handled this already, and I apologize. I just never actually 'met' someone who tried to weave a web of lies right in front of my face before.

You have the makings of a good pharisee sir, hope you make the cut.

"This nation or any secular nation on Earth does not apply as it is the work of man and the new covenant made in the shed blood at calvary does not require the burdens of the law of the Nation of Israel"

Yes would, that really does sum it up. Thank you older brother.