See all the books behind my picture? I love the Bible and have been studying since 1971. I am a pastor of a small group in Billings. Most of the quotes I reproduce are from my books or booklets.

Just so you know, I have enormous respect for your balanced and sincere approach to the Scriptures.

Art

Israel consisted of 12 tribes. The Jews were only one tribe called Judah. God took the ten tribes away from Jerusalem for worshiping Astoreth, Easter, and they continued their apostasy finally being taken captive and lost to history. They are known as the lost ten tribes today.

The southern tribes consisted of Judah, Levi, and some of the tribe of Benjamin.

Paul was of Benjamin, and I think that Matthew was of Levi.

J.H. Allen makes an interesting observation about the lineage of the apostles. It is his contention that all but one were from the tribe of Benjamin. He writes in his book, Judah’s Sceptre and Joseph’s Birthright:

Although Benjamin was with the kingdom of Judah, they were the children of Rachel, and differed much from the characteristic Jew, both in looks and in speech. The Galileans were Benjaminites: hence all the apostles of Christ except Judas, were Benjaminites for they were Galileans; and while Christ was in the Judgement Hall, some of those who stood by said to Peter, surely thou art one of them, for thy speech betrayeth thee (P. 288).

Art

I would suggest to you that the account in Genesis one is not the original creation. That took place long before. Therefore, this scenario in Genesis one STARTS WITH THE EARTH ALREADY IN EXISTENCE, BUT IN A DESTROYED STATE.

Remember that the angels who followed the Devil left their first estate. That estate was the earth. They followed the Devil to attack God's throne and were cast back down. Jesus said He saw him fall like lightening. Where did He fall to? The earth. He was the ruler over the earth, and remains so until Christ's return. Mat 4:4 2 Cor 4:4

So, Genesis opens up with this:

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

So, God created the heavens and earth -- but then something happened

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The words without form and void do not refer to God's creation. The words mean chaos and confusion. God is not the author of confusion. Satan is I Cor 14:33.

The state of the world is the result of sin. Thus the word "was," should have legitimately been translated "became." So, God created the heavens and earth. After millions of years, Satan rebelled, and there was a great war in which His world, the great dragon's world, the reptilian community on earth died. They dies almost instantly and are found today with food in their mouth. The world became chaotic and confused with moons pounded into dust and still circling their mother planet, asteroids, and meteors, one time pieces of planets, flying through space.

That is the world that was. Then in all the darkness of the debris God cleared it away so the sun would shine again.

Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Thus God had to restore rotation to the dead earth to have night and day.

notice that the first day is restoring light to the earth. THE EARTH AND THE UNIVERSE WERE ALREADY HERE.

Next God created the atmosphere:
Gen 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Now the earth has an atmosphere and IT is rotating again. Next God raised the land, sets the bounds of the sea, and He plants the ground with various vegetation.

Gen 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. Gen 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

In verse four he simply relocates the sun and moon for signs and seasons. He places them in position to signal His Holy day observances.

Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Gen 1:17 And "GOD SET" them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, Gen 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. Gen 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

The fifth day He created the sea creatures

The sixth day He created the land creature and man

The seventh day He created the Sabbath

Art

You can go on line to see what they are about. They rejected the Pope's authority, and believe that statues break the second commandment but painted images don't.

They are very ornate and generally have a high mass, that is they have much structure, robes and ritual.

art

This story and the following posts are exactly why true Christianity must take the exact opposite view.

The God of the bible said that we don't have the moral compass inside us to direct us how we should live. We are basically selfish and will act in our best interests. This is what happened in the garden of Eden. The devil told Even she had the capability inside her to decide what was right and wrong. It is heady. It sounds good to humans. It pumps us up, and feeds our human ego. But we don't have the ability to do it. It is not in us. That is the great lie.

The evidence? Man chose to be the one who determined what was right and wrong. From that time to this, we have had wars, famines, disease and death.

True love is self sacrificing, like the love of God. We don't have that in us. The only way to attain it, is to reject our human reasoning that is inside us. We must put our own ways to death, and then be filled with His spirit. Then God's love and His law become written in our minds and hearts. Then, and then only can we understand the importance and value of His law. Then, we can make right decisions. As God says:

Jer 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Mat 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. Mat 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Pro 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. Pro 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Pro 3:7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

Art

Something professing Christians need to Consider

Most of you think that you can worship Christ on Easter. You probably did not know that the witches often laugh at you. The reason is that you attack their beliefs, and yet you don't know that you actually worship their gods. They know this. They know who Easter is and who Samhain is, and worship these gods openly.

We who profess to reject them in favor of Jesus, actually legitimatize them. It is a great irony.

The original Church founded by Jesus Christ did not celebrate Easter! The early Christians understood that Easter was a pagan observance, and as such, condemned by God. Compton's Pictured Encyclopedia reveals the true origin of this holiday:

The name Easter comes from the ancient Anglo Saxon goddess of spring, Eostre or Ostara, in whose honor an annual spring festival was held. Some of our Easter customs have come from this and other pre-Christian spring festivals. (Vol 4 p. 140)

The goddess Eostre, or Ostara, is the Anglo Saxon equivalent of the Babylonian Ishtar and the Phoenician Astarte. The Wiccan website, Temple of the Dark Moon explains:

This festival is named after the Anglo-Saxon Goddess Eostre, also known in Old German as Ostara. Little is known about this Goddess except that Her festival was celebrated at the Spring Equinox, and became Easter. She was a Goddess of Fertility and was connected with hares and eggs. She may have been a Goddess of the Dawn. She may also be connected with the Greek Eos and the Roman Aurora, both Dawn Goddesses, and with the Babylonian Ishtar and Phoenician Astarte, both who are Love Goddesses.

They know of what they worship, and some of us do not.

Art

Not exactly. The Passover is figured on the Hebrew Calendar, and Easter on the Roman one.

The pagan emperor Constantine changed the Church practice from Passover to Easter about 300 years after Christ. The churches in the east--John's churches mentioned in Rev 2-3 were still keeping the Passover. The Roman churches had adopted the pagan Easter. Since Rome was the capital of the empire they taught that they were the headquarters for the Church of God. Therefore, much of the empire, unknowingly, followed them. In 325 A.D. Constantine wrote:

When the question relative to the sacred festival of Easter arose, it was universally thought that it would be convenient that all should keep the feast on one day; ...it was declared particularly unworthy for this, the holiest of all festivals, to follow the custom of the Jews, who have soiled their hands with the most fearful of crimes, and whose minds were blinded.... We ought not, therefore, to have anything in common with the Jews,... in unanimously adopting this mode, we desire, dearest brethren, to separate ourselves from the detestable company of the Jews, for it is truly shameful for us to hear them boast that without their direction we could not keep this feast... They do not possess the truth in this Easter question; a Divine Providence wills that this custom should be rectified and regulated in a uniform way; and everyone, I hope, will agree upon this point. As, on the one hand, it is our duty not to have anything in common with the murderers of our Lord; and as, on the other, the custom now followed by the Churches of the West, of the South and of the North, and by some of those of the East, is the most acceptable....You should consider not only that the number of churches in these provinces make a majority, but also that it is right we should have nothing in common with the Jews.

In the Nicene council, the decision was made to universally adopt the observance of Easter. This law then became binding for all who professed Christianity. From that time forward, those who were a part of the Roman Empire celebrated Easter, and those who held fast to the teaching of Christ and the apostles went underground to keep their faith.
In this context, it is very important to consider why this decision was made. Was this judgment legitimate? Did it have God's approval? The Emperor's letter outlines three main reasons for his historic decision. They are listed below:

Three Reasons Why Emperor Constantine Changed the Passover to Easter

1. It was convenient for all to keep the same day.
2. The majority were already keeping Easter
3. To have nothing in common with the Jews

When it came to the decision regarding the Passover, there was no mention of what the Holy Scriptures said about God's feast, no reference to what Christ practiced, and no allusion to what the apostle John had taught. There was no regard for what Paul taught the Gentile Churches. There was certainly no reference to the verse that states that the Jews were given the unique role in all human history to preserve the sacred scriptures (Romans 3:1-3).
The church was now made part of the Roman empire. The Roman church leaders influenced the emperor, and he, rather than God, dictated what the church was to believe and practice - all based on political reasons, not on Scripture.

Art

I don't think anyone else will understand this but you.

Yes, I understand that Passover is not a High day. It was the preparation for the high high, and the day Christ was killed.

But, it was a meal, and God calls it one of His Feasts in Lev 23. The entire days of unleavened bread were sometimes called the Passover--apparently even by God.

For example, in Deut 16 it is not speaking of the Passover proper. The entire chapter is only speaking of the 3 pilgrimage feasts. It does not include the Passover proper, Trumpets, or Atonement.

Thus when it speaks of Passover, it begins with the first day of Unleavened Bread. For this reason, the time mentioned is evening, not ben har arbyim, between the evenings. The word Roast in the KJV is really cook, not roast as it must be for the passover. For this reason it mentions six days of unleavened bread. So, God also refers to Passover as the days of unleavened bread.

I hope I made this clear, and did not assume too much:

Did you follow the reasoning on the video?

Art

I don't understand?

Jesus was never ever ever in Christmas. He condemned it and other false forms of worship when He was the Word, before His human incarnation.

On earth, He said in order to enter life, keep the commandments. The first, second, and third commandments are broken by the observance of Christmas.

No other god's. Santa is another god, Saturn.
No idols. The xmas tree is an idol.
Don't take His name in vain. We put Christ's name on the celebration of a holiday dedicated to another god.

Game over! Christmas does not work for God, and Christ is not it it.

Art

Absolutely true! Jeremiah is not speaking of a Christmas tree.
Jeremiah is speaking of an idol, and of course the Christmas tree is an idol! It is a man made object that represents or pictures a god. But---what God? Does it picture Jesus?

The Christmas tree is arguably the most prominent symbol of this season. Millions of people bring an evergreen tree into their homes and decorate it with beautiful glass balls, tinsel, and lights. These same millions would never think of the Christmas tree as an idol which God abhors.
The tradition of bringing a tree into the home and decorating it came from a fable regarding Saint Boniface. According to tradition, Saint Boniface cut down the "great oak of Jupiter," a tree worshiped by pagan Teutons in Germany.
The story is that Saint Boniface came upon a band of heathens who were worshiping a huge oak tree. This band was about to offer a human sacrifice. Boniface intervened, stopping the sacrifice. He then ordered the tree cut down. Legend has it that a small fir tree sprang up in it’s place. Boniface proclaimed that this tree was the tree of life and represented Christ.
Careful examination of this story reveals striking similarities to the story of Nimrod and Semeramis. After the death of Nimrod, his mother Semeramis declared that Nimrod was reincarnated in the form of an evergreen tree which sprung up overnight. History reveals that the worship of trees and nature was a common practice among pagans and continues to this very day.
Many people in the New Age movement believe that trees actually have feelings. Some even believe that trees have the ability to reason. This belief is not new at all. Socrates and Plato are both credited with embracing the same beliefs.
The presence of tree worship is woven throughout history. The ancient people of Palestine practiced tree worship. They often tied the tops of the trees together in groves and made a sort of shrine of the trees. On certain occasions, they would cut an image such as a phallic symbol in the tree and worship before it.
It is important to understand that such practices are abhorrent to God. The tenth chapter of the book of Jeremiah illustrates this point. Here, God commands his people to "learn not the way of the heathen." He then goes into great detail describing a tradition in which the heathen cut a tree out of the forest and decorate it. God goes on to characterize this tree as a graven image.
Although many argue that Jeremiah is not referring to the Christmas tree, that argument misses the point. What God revealed through Jeremiah is that His children are to avoid practices that resemble those embraced by the pagan world. He did not say that it was appropriate to modify their practices and call them Christian. The Christmas tree is clearly a symbol of a faith that was vastly different from anything advocated by the scriptures.
The Christmas tree’s origin in paganism is thoroughly supported by the testimony of history. Consider the words of Alexander Hislop.

The Christmas tree, now so common among us, was equally common in Pagan Rome and Pagan Egypt. In Egypt that tree was the palm tree; in Rome it was the fir; the palm tree denoting the Pagan Messiah, as Baal-Tamar, the fir referring to him as Baal-Berith.

The mother of Adonis, the Sun-God and great mediatorial divinity, was mystically said to have been changed into a tree, the son must have been recognized as the ‘Man the Branch.’ (The Two Babylons, p. 97)

Other credible works on the tradition of Christmas dramatically declare that the Christmas tree is intimately connected to faiths practiced by the pagan world. The book Christmas Folklore reveals the following:

Most people have heard that the Christmas tree originates in the tannenbaum and is some sort of vestige of Teutonic vegetation worship. This is partially true. However, the custom of using pine and other evergreens ceremonially was well established at the Roman Saturnalia, even earlier in Egypt. (p. 209)

The book Festivals, Holy Days, and Saints’ Days confirms that the origin of the Christmas tree can be traced to people who knew absolutely nothing about the Bible.

The Christmas tree... recapitulates the idea of tree worship...gilded nuts and balls symbolizing the sun...all the festivities of the winter solstice have been absorbed into Christmas day...the use of holly and mistletoe to the Druidic ceremonies; the Christmas tree [today reflects] the honors paid to Odin’s sacred fir... (p. 236)

It is clear that the Christmas tree is a powerful symbol and conjures many images concerning the celebration it pictures. However, there is one thing the Christmas tree is NOT – it is not Christian. Everything about the Christmas tree can be traced to beliefs that are strongly condemned in scripture. There is no connection between the Christmas tree and the birth of Christ. It is a pagan symbol that God condemns.
In 1974, United Press International, one of the world’s leading press agencies, carried an article regarding the origin of the Christmas tree. This article spoke volumes about this symbol that has come to be strongly embraced by the Christian world.

Toward the middle of winter, as the sun began setting further in the south, and the nights grew longer, ancient pagan priests put candles which they called fairy lights on trees in an attempt to lure the sun back toward the north. (December 17)

Today, millions of Christian homes around the world are adorned with evergreen trees every Christmas. Tragically, people fail to understand what these trees picture because they simply don’t ask. Ancient Israel was once indicted for engaging in practices that included the veneration of trees.

And the children of Israel did secretly [those] things that [were] not right against the LORD their God, and they built them high places in all their cities, from the tower of the watchmen to the fenced city. And they set them up images and groves in every high hill, and under every green tree: And there they burnt incense in all the high places, as [did] the heathen whom the LORD carried away before them; and wrought wicked things to provoke the LORD to anger: For they served idols, whereof the LORD had said unto them, Ye shall not do this thing. (2Kings 17:9-12)

So, Jeremiah was speaking of an idol, not the the Christmas tree we have today. However, the tree was a central part of the worship in the Saturnalia, an idol to worship Saturn (Santa Clause) and these things are an abomination to God.

Why defend it? Why use it? Why not jettison everything that opposes God and His way?

Art

I know that you are not worshiping Easter in your mind. However, there are other minds besides yours. For example, I think in the devils mind, he thinks that he has got you to worship her while in your mind you are worshiping Christ.

But, lets play it your way. You are not worshiping Easter, you are worshiping Christ using her day, her name and her symbols. Does Jesus approve. Here is what He said to Israel.

Deu 12:30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.

So, Christ does not want us worshiping Him using any part of the way that the pagans used to worship their gods. Its wrong. In fact when Israel made the golden calf, they did not do it to worship the calf. They made that feast to worship God. the Almighty say it was a great sin!

This is exactly what you are doing. you are worshiping Christ using the day, the name and symbols of Easter, the goddess of fertility.

In that context, please realize that Easter does not fall on a pagan holiday. Easter is a pagan holiday.

Easter is the actual literal name of the goddess of fertility.
In other languages and cultures she was called Ishtar, Ashtoreth, and Istarte.

You do break the first commandment by observing this day. Nothing about it is Christian. Nothing. You cannot find one single thing about it that is Christian or is in the scriptures. There is actually one verse regarding Easter in which God punishes Israel for worshiping her (Ikings 11:33).

The name is pagan. The day is pagan. The symbols are pagan and the entire doctrine of it is unscriptural.

Consider that Jesus did not rise in the morning, He was already gone when it was still dark.

Paul tells us to keep the day He observe which was the Passover and not Easter. As I cor 11 shows it was an evening celebration, not morning.

1Co 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 1Co 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Are we keeping the Passover this way like Jesus said? Or are we keeping Easter and thinking it is ok because I love Jesus?

Jesus said he would only give one proof he was the messiah. That proof was that he was in the grave 3 days and 3 nights. Count them in the Friday crucifixion scenario. There is only 2 nights and one day. Its lies my friend. Do you want to be a part of lies?

I'll post a thread on the three days and three nights if you ask me to, but for now, I tell you that before God it is all lies, every bit. You can worship Jesus every day of the week, but when you celebrate Christ on her, Easter's holiday, when you worship Christ the way that Easter is worshiped, a morning sunrise service, and when you say happy easter, do you really think Christ thinks you are worshiping Him? Really?

Put yourself in His shoes, and consider an analogy. What if your girl friend who you intended to marry told you that she wanted to celebrate her love for you. Then she picks a day to do this, and it just so happens to be the birthday of her old boy friend. Then, she makes a special dinner for you, but it is the food he liked, and it is the dinner she always made for him on his birthday. Then when you are there eating, she calls you by his name. Ok, who does she really love?

She loves you of course, in her mind she is doing this for you.

Then, finally on another level, Jesus died a terrible death. He was beaten by a professional lictor who knew exactly how for to whip a man until he was almost dead.

His whip had pieces of iron and bone it it. The lash would break the skin, but the pieces of bone would stick in and then when he pulled it back they would rip out the flesh so that he could see his ribs.

Then he went through the agony of crucifixion. He would have to push himself up to breath putting all the pressure on that nail in his feet. Then when the burning throbbing pain was too much he would sink back down and hang on the nails in his hands. This process went on for hours,

Our response? Why we have easter egg coloring. We have easter egg hunts and easter egg rolling contests. We give our kids baskets with easter colors, easter chicks and easter chocolate bunnies and eggs.

Do yu really think any of this honors God?

Art

nuts I posted twice.

Sorry,

art

I think you stated it well, and of course with fewer words. Someday I'll learn, I and everyone else hopes!

art

I am not picking on anyone here. I don't know what "the prayer" is. I am picking on the idea that was expressed earlier. People think they can do what ever they want. I don't remember the quote exactly, but you responded to it when they said something like, I repent when I want, and I do what I want. The people today think they can shack up, be homosexual, have idols, commit adultery, and many are posting on one thread, smoking pot is ok. I bet some of them think the apostle John was loaded when he wrote revelation. Anyway, they think God still loves me and that they will go to their expected reward.

So, people believe they can worship idols. They think that they can use them in their worship and say that they are not worshiping God by it.

He says don't do it. They can argue, and they will argue, because we are in the apostasy. They argue against doing what God clearly says in the bible. Don't you see the difference?

It is not messing up once in awhile, it is more like, "who are you to tell me that I am messing up? More and more, vast numbers are coming to this mind set. Take a realistic hard look at what is being said on this forum by most. They are not searching the scriptures daily to see what is true, what God requires, and then trying to conform to His will.

They are doing what they want, and then arguing that it is ok. They think they are all right just the way they are. Here is god's characterization of His Church today. This is not me speaking, it is not me accusing anyone on this forum of anything. This is Christ speaking to the last era of the church and He says:

Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

They don't see it. They have been lulled to sleep. God is only kinda real, not the motive for living, not the hope that drives us and not a God to fear to give lip service to. It is mush mush candy coated like the Christmas tree. It it attractive, and pretty, but not what God says. That tree is an idol. Santa is the God Saturn lifted from the saturnailia. We think we can worship God this way. Anything is fine. God does not agree. He says:

Deu 12:30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.

But we go ahead and do it anyway. Why? Because we are in the midst of apostasy. We can't stop keeping Christmas and all of its idols. Why? Well, what would people think???

Don't you see it? We care more about what people think than what God says. we have fallen away from the truth, and we have fallen away so far that the truth appears radical and weird to us. It is all reversed.

Don't you see this? It really is Christmas that is weird. Every bit of it contradicts what God says in the Bible. Why can't people see that? Because we think we are just fine the way we are in our mind. We don't need any correction, and in fact, no one tells me what to do. Religion is about us, and about how we feel. It is individual, and it is us doing our own thing. But that is our religion, not God's.

We don't see ourselves as poor spiritually and blind and yet, to God--in his eyes, we should be embarrassed by our condition, but ironically we are proud of it.

That is what I am referring to. That is the growing spirit of the people who call themselves Christians today. Where is the respect for God? Where is the Awe? Where is the reverence? Where is the fear? Where is the obedience?---It is not there, and what is there, is slipping away.

Art

REGARDING THE MAGI GIFTS

It is important to understand that the wise men did not give gifts to each other. Additionally, the gifts they brought to Christ were not birthday presents. Jesus did not receive toys from these visitors, but rather unusual offerings that many believe carry great significance.
IIt has been suggested that gold was is a gift given to a king, frankincense a gift given to a priest and myrrh—a spice used in preparing a body for burial—was a gift that was given to a condemned man. It is clear that the wise men presented gifts to Jesus because they understood Him to be a great King. The protocol at that time was to never approach the presence of kings or dignitaries without bearing a gift. Adam Clark’s commentary expresses it this way:

"The people of the east never approach the presence of kings and great personages without a present in their hands." (Vol. 5, p. 46)

The truth is that gift giving at this time of year is not scriptural and has no basis in the story of the wise men. The giving of gifts at this time of year came from the practice of the ancient Saturnalia. Today, this worship of Saturn has merged with the worship of Mammon, the god of money.

REGARDING HIS BIRTH ON TRUMPETS.

i have often wordered about this. If his birth was on trumpets, then the shepherds would not be in the fields. They would be observing the holy day, not working.

On another level, the calendar has gone through some evolutions from the beginning. For example Abib is the name of the first month in the Canaanite calendar. Nisan is the first month in the Babylonian calendar. Is it possible that the calendar is off in Christ's day, He was born on Trumpets, but they were not celebrating it, because of their calculations. For example, if you mark the actual beginning of the month with the feint crescent, then the moon is not actually full on the holy days that take place on the 15, like ULB and FoT.

It is just a point of interest that I have not ever reconciled.

REGARDING THE MAGI

There are some who believe that these men were not astrologers or worshipers of Mithra, but instead were remnants of the ancient Israelites who after captivity were removed to Peria and the Persians removed to Israel becoming the hated Samaritans. There were priests among those who were taken, and that is why the Samaritans asked the Assyrians to send them one to stop the plague.

CONSIDER THE STAR:

I don't think they were following a star that was astronomical or astrological. Rather, the star moved. It led them to the very house. Therefore, because stars are angels in the Bible, it might well have been Christ's angel who led these ancient Israelites, wise men who had been displace by Assyria into Peria to the very place where Christ was born.

food for thought, but no xmas trees for you ok?

Art

Notice that the falling away comes first before the man of sin is revealed, not after it.

Further, the falling away is "apostasia" in the Greek or apostasy in english. This is not a rebellion. It means a falling away from the truth.

That is what we have today. The people have fallen away. Their view is that accepting Jesus is a free trip to heaven. They don't have to do what God said. God love us all no matter what.

This is the apostasy. We are in the midsts of it, and the next thing to happen on the prophetic scene is that the Beast and false prophet will teach doctrines contrary to the bible and call it Christianity.

The false prophet will be a john the baptist figure and point to the Beast as God in the flesh, and the they will claim the millennium has come.

the two witnesses will preach the truth, But few will see the fallacy because they will be so far removed by the current apostasy that they will not know the difference. They will think that everything is ok with God. we can go along with this guy.

Art

You make a good point there my friend. Hold that thought near and dear so that it never becomes confused to you. Also, perhaps consider that it is not a means of communication to God either is it?

But then, there is this nagging question. What exactly is it? Where did it come from? Why does it exist? Why it is needed, and where exactly in the scriptures something like this is suggested, commanded, or ever used by God's people.

Thanks,

Art

those who did that were not Christians. These people in the middle ages killed true Christians in their first crusade. They were the ones that Christ spoke of when He said:

Joh 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.



Yes, they who were not Christians did these things. Further seeking a kind of spirituality, there are sects of the Satanists do have breeders and offer human sacrifice--of course it is not themselves they offer. Voodoo in all their grand spirituality do it too. There is all kinds of weird stuff based on "spirituality."



That is bunk. Mens religions have fallacies and lies. God's religion is true, but few follow it.

What is unique to me in this case is but you are posting on a thread started by someone who asked a question of Christians. So, you are accusing people on this forum of telling others what to do, when you are doing the same thing. You are telling the Christians whey they should do with other Christians, and you are not a professing Christian. So, you don't know that the scripture say, yet you know better than us. Isn't that a little ironic?

Jam 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Jam 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

The people who have been taught they they can bow to idols and it is ok, are in error. They don't know it, and they have been taught that it is all ok, but the truth is that it is not ok. Those who killed people in God's name and called themselves Christians were not. Further, those today who worship in a false way can call themselves Christians, but if they don't live by the book, then they too are not.

I post for those who want to be true.


Art

One little problem.

Pro 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

So, everyone is certainly capable and free to do what ever they wish. Think what you wish. It is the responsibility of the Christian community to warn the world of what is to come and why.

Art

I don't agree. Jesus spoke of a series of events that would lead to the great tribulation, heavenly signs, and they the trumpet plagues. In that context, he explained that there would be a generation in which they would have the power to erase all life.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Then he explained further signs and said:

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

This generation is our generation when in the 50's we had come to the point where we have the power to destroy the earth hundreds of times over.

The tribulation is next, ww3 and then He will intervene

Art

That generation