The Roman Catholic Church Changed Sabbath to Sunday

"Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that worship should be changed from Saturday to Sunday. The fact is that the Church was in existence for several centuries before the Bible was given to the world. The Church made the Bible, the Bible did not make the Church." Things Catholics Are Asked About, p. 136, Martin J. Scott, 1927 edition

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"Some theologians have held that God likewise directly determined Sunday as the day of worship in the New Law, that He Himself has explicitly substituted Sunday for the Sabbath. But this theory is now entirely abandoned. It is now commonly held that God simply gave His Church the power to set aside whatever day or days she would deem suitable as Holy Days. The Church chose Sunday, the first day of the week, and in the course of time added other days as holy days." A Course in Religion for Catholic High Schools and Academies,1936, John Laux

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Question: "Which is the Sabbath day?"
Answer: "Saturday is the Sabbath day."
Question: "Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?"
Answer: "We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church in the Council of Laodicea, transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday."
The Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, Third Edition, Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R.

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"We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church, as a rule to guide us. We say this Church, instituted by Christ to teach and guide man through life, has the right to change the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she made many other laws, for instance, the Friday abstinence, the unmarried priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic marriages and a thousand other laws." Catholic Church Extension Society, 1975, Chicago, Illinois, Peter R. Kraemer

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"Sunday is our mark of authority. The church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact." The Catholic Record, Sept. 1, 1923

Note: It is interesting to note that God also has a mark. That mark, which is an identifying sign between Him and His people, is His Sabbath. See Exodus 31:17 and Ezekiel 20:12, 19, 20.

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"Because the Third Commandment (which is really the fourth commandment but Catholicism does away with the second commandment so they do not have to acknowledge their idolatry, which to them makes the Sabbath the third) depends upon the remembrance of God’s saving works and because Christians saw the definitive time inaugurated by Christ as a new beginning, they made the first day after the Sabbath a festive day, for that was the day on which the Lord rose from the dead." Pope John Paul II, May 31, 1998

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"They [Roman Catholics] refer to the Sabbath Day as having been changed into the Lord’s Day, contrary to the Decalogue, as it seems. Neither is there any example whereof they make more than concerning the changing of the Sabbath Day. Great, say they, is the power of the Church, since it has dispensed with one of the Ten Commandments!" Augsburg Confession of Faith, Article 28, approved by Martin Luther, 1530

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Question: "Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?"
Answer: "Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her - she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority."
A Doctrinal Catechism Third Edition, p. 174, Stephen Keenan

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Question: "How prove you that the Church hath power to command feasts and holy days?"
Answer. "By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of, and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same Church."
Manual of Christian Doctrine, 1916, p. 67, Daniel Ferres

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"Sunday is a Catholic institution, and its claims to observation can be defended only on Catholic principles . . . From beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first." The Catholic Press

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"The Catholic Church, . . . by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday." The Catholic Mirror, Sept. 23, 1893

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"If any person in this town will show any scripture for it, I will tomorrow evening publicly acknowledge it and thank him for it. It was the Holy Catholic church that changed the day of rest from Saturday to Sunday, the first day of the week. And it not only compelled all to keep Sunday, but at the Council of Laodicea, A.D. 363, anathematized those who kept the Sabbath and urged all persons to labor on the seventh day under penalty of anathema." Father T. Enright, Roman Catholic Priest, Kansas City, MO

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"My brethren, look about you upon the various wrangling sects and denominations. Show me one that claims or possesses the power to make laws binding on the conscience. There is but one on the face of the earth, the Catholic Church, that has the power to make laws binding upon the conscience, binding before God, binding under pain of hell fire. Take, for instance, the day we celebrate Sunday. What right have the Protestant churches to observe that day? None whatever. You say it is to obey the commandment, ‘Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.’ But Sunday is not the Sabbath, according to the Bible and the record of time." Father T. Enright, Roman Catholic Priest, Kansas City, MO

Lets make a rule that we cant smoke that stuff and post, what do you say?

Art

Actually, the mistake is in reading the sequence of events. The days were 24 hour days. Thus the plants created on one day had insects and birds to pollinate them the next day. They did not have to wait a thousand years or billing years for that.

Further, people misread Genesis, not realizing that there was a world that existed before mankind. It was reptilian, and ruled by Lucifer who later became the dragon, Satan. The angels that followed him, left their first estate, and ascended to the throne of God. There was enormous war, and then the six days of creation were actually re-creation after the destruction. This time, the man like creatures were made in God's image, and life was warm blooded. If you read Genesis one you will see that the earth already existed before God separated the light from the darkness.



So, rather than believe the Bible, we must make things up in our mind. Watch the rest of this reasoning.



Ok, I'll buy. That makes sense. Either it was written by men or it was inspirited by God and written by men.



Whoa!!!!

No no no no!

Number one, only a fool would grab the Bible and believe it. So, first you color this scenario with silliness, demeaning the bible reader. God says prove me. Paul says prove all things, and hold fast what is true. Sincere Bible readers prove what they read.

But, then you contradict your own statement.

You say that Bible believers put their faith in man, when you actually defined their faith as being that the Bible is inspired by God. This is a huge difference. It is playing with words to win your argument.

Then to say that being a scientist and studying the universe is
putting your faith in God? To me this is goofy. First of all, the scientists repeatedly have had to admit how they were wrong the first, second and sometimes third time around. They did not know the earth was round and hung on nothing. They did not know that you should wash after touching an unclean body. They did not know that certain meats caused illness. God explained it all to us. But, we don't believe Him.

So, anyway, believing the scientists if not faith in God. The universe does not tell us not to have images, not to have other gods. It does not say what day to worship on. It does not say to us, don't lie, cheat, steal and honor your parents.

That is so nuts. I apologize for my attitude, but people write stuff and others are comforted by it. Some actually believe it. But it it makes no sense.

The truth is that true science does not contradict the Bible. There is true science and a false scientific theories and ideas that have been shown to be false. Speaking of the ancient gnostic studies, Paul writes:

1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith.

I suggest that the Bible is true, and when correctly understood, by letting it interpret itself, then we can believe it, and by following its precepts, we can live a successful life. If it is making lots of money, going to the moon, or advancing technology, then science has a place.

That place is in the arena of physical laws, laws created by God by the way. That place has nothing to do with the spiritual laws that exist. Those can only be known by the scriptures.



My friend, there is no conflict with the Bible and science. Nowhere. And, it is silly to base your belief morally on science.



This is where you again manipulate words. No one is choosing to base their life on a book written by men. We choose to base our life on a book that we believe based on evidence is inspired by God.

There is no way that the Bible could have known all those things about the earth and bacterial before science without it being inspired.

You can't tell me that you are not prejudiced. You ignore the truth, and you twist words to make things seem to fit your scenario. Be honest.

Art

You state no evidence, and here we go again. We will define God!



God did not copy those mythologies. They copied God's.

Throughout history, there has always the true and the counterfeit. God is true. The Devil is false. God's way is right, ours selfish, and ultimately wrong. There was God's way and Baal's way. The people had to decide. But Baal looked attractive--legitimate to some.

There was Janes and Jambres who were types of the end time Beast and false prophet in conflict with Moses and Aaron, types of the two witnesses before the trumpet plagues, and God taking His people out of this corrupt world by a resurrection.

There is Christmas with Santa the god Saturn, Easter with the fertility goddess Ishtar, and Halloween celebrating the Lord of the Dead. These are counterfeits that existed long before God revealed His true Holy days.

Thus, there have always been false Messiahs. The reason is that there is a counterfeit god who rules this earth. It is Satan the Devil and he has deceived the entire world. The early false Messiahs are part of his deception, and you, like many others, fall for it. That is why they existed.

Art

This has always been the problem from the beginning of creation. This is what led to the war in heaven. This is the reason why we have war, sickness, and famine on the earth today. This is why crime exists. This is why people are so unhappy they drink to excess and take drugs to numb the pain from this life. It is because we do not accept God on His terms.

For example, Ok, you like the Bible, but you also like certain soda. You like certain TV programs, and certain foods. Your likes have nothing to do with God. The Bible is not there to be liked. It is not there to make you feel good.

It is to correct us. It is there to reprove us. It is to teach us how to live. That Bible speaks with authority. You reject that part. You even say I quoted another's definition of God. But, it was not another's, it was God's definition of Himself. So, you pick and choose what you like and don't like about God and His Word.

To me, you seem to reject the authority of the Bible and its God. So, what else would I think but that you don't like the Bible. Yes, you like parts of it that you choose to like. You know there is poetry there. Sometimes it is very elevated, beautiful language that the Bible uses. It can be like a lovely song. We read the words, we hear them, but don't really fully believe them. We judge them and do what ever we please.

In order to understand my posts, you would have to put yourself in my shoes. Pretend for a moment that you could prove God's existence. You could prove the Bible to be His word. Then if there is a God, and He created this wonderful earth for us, and then loved us so much that He paid the penalty for our horrible stupid failures, then we owe Him a debt of enormous gratitude. We should respect Him, listen to what He says, and not try to define Him, and not chose what part of Him we will accept and won't.

But, our human nature is vain. We believe we can think big--even bigger than God. We believe we can define Him. We know right from wrong.

But, I tell you, in all honesty. I actually know this being. I know who He is, and that fact gives me a real sense for what I next say. In that context, I guarantee that if you or I or any of the others on this forum were standing by the mount when He gave the commandments, we would shake, tremble, and poop our pants just like they did. It would not matter the size of our muscles, the size of our intellect, or the size of our genitals, all the things we think are important.

Trust me, you would completely believe Him then. You would even obey Him then. But, don't think by this that I don't understand your position. To you, it is just a book written by men. You don't understand it, and so you are doing the best you can to make sense of it all.

So, in doing so, one of the things we do is define God for ourselves. We make God into a manageable god--one that fits us, our needs, and our likes and dislikes.

The ancient Israelites read the Bible, but they included Baal in their worship too. God warned and warned and warned. Finally there came a time when words were not enough. He had them taken captive and they are lost to history to this day.

So,we can like parts of the Bible. We can use those parts that we like to justify our personal beliefs. God is allowing us to do this in order to learn the lesson of human history that our way does not work. The end result of going our way is pain suffering and sorrow.

Thus, the scriptures are true, but must not be interpreted by us:

Just imagine people giving their lives for the scriptures and belief in the God of the Bible, and yet it was really just their concoction. That would be dumb. But, those who wrote later said:

2Pe 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

Further, this writers also states:

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

In the verse above, He clearly tells us how to understand the Bible. We must not interpret it. It will interpret itself.

2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Then, there are these scary verses about God and His relationship to us. He chides man for thinking that God is like us, and then He says:

Psa 50:22 Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver. Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me: and to him that ordereth his conversation aright will I shew the salvation of God.

You get my point. It is not all nicey-nice stuff. There is a sobering reality to what we believe and why we believe it. Many read the Bible, but reject the authority of God and the consequences for not listening to Him.

I understand it. I've been there and done that. But, I know better now. I may not write well. I may not say it so you can understand it very well. For that I apologize. For my belief in the Bible and its God, it is based on evidence, proof, and logic--not feelings, and not my own ideas.

Art

Ok, you believe that. But what has that got to do with reality? Or, considering it on another level, do you have any evidence of this? Can you prove it?

I mean think for a minute. Is there any thing else in the entire universe that fits your definition? Is there anything you can find on earth that is everything and nothing? Can something be something and nothing?

This is amazing to me, the lengths we will go to reject God. We make up our ideas, they have no basis in fact, cannot be proven and there is no evidence for them. We believe this rather than what there is evidence for. It is so weird to me.

Here is another one you might want to use some time. I remember my physical science teacher in college. He read us a theory of the beginning of the universe that some PHD had written. The author of the article said. "Somehow, nothing tunneled through to Something." Wow! That is so erudite, so smart, and so stupid.

You understand, it is not really smart and stupid. But, the person who wrote it thought they were smart when in fact they were stupid. It also cannot be both.



God is not everything simultaneously. Who told you that? Where did you get such an idea? Is God in the heroin addicts needle, and in the drug that he shoots? Is He in the HIV infected person having sex with someone else's mate?

God is not everything simultaneously. He is holy. That means He is pure, not tainted with evil. He is not in those places, and He is not on this earth. He is in heaven. By way of example, He visited Abraham, but sent angels into Sodom to see if what He had heard from reports was true or not.



It is all wrong. Knowledge does not require experience. You don't have to do wrong to know it is wrong.

I get a kick out of the atheists who proudly state that they have formed morals and they have ethics without God. But, they don't even realize that they were created with a conscience. It is so funny. How could a conscience evolve?

Anyway, they say there is no God and we don't need God because we can determine right from wrong. The only reason they think they can make such decisions is because they were created with a conscience. But, you get the point. You or anyone else can know right from wrong without doing the wrong.

Art

We went through this before. I should not, and must not define Him. That is the entire problem with humanity today. That is the reason for the commandment, no other gods. It is the basis for the second command no images. It is the basis for the third command, not to take His name in vain. Everyone wants to define God. They want to interpret His word, and this is the very reason that they have it all wrong.

God defines Himself. The scriptures will interpret themselves. By believing what God says, and what His word says without interpretation is the only way we can understand.

So, did you read those verses that I posted in which God defines Himself? Or did you just bypass them because they were from the Bible and you don't like the Bible? I don't understand why you don't remember this.

Just wondering,

Art

I don't believe you will ever find one. You would have want to find the argument, in order to find it. You can't if you are prejudiced.




This reasoning is so beneath you. We all want to blame someone for our wrongs. Why not God? He created us after all. It is His fault.

I don't know if you are a parent or not, but if you have had this role, you realize that you created another human being. You existed before them. Creating them is the greatest thing you could do. Providing for them, and teaching them is a welcomed responsibility.

So, you teach them right and wrong. They believe you at first. Then, they question it, and do things against your teaching. They experience the painful results of doing stupid things, and should the children blame the parents?

You understand the parable. God is not to blame for our evil. He created us, told us how the best way to live was, and we turned against God. We decided to choose for ourself what was right and wrong. As a result, we create hell on earth, and then we blame God. There you go. We are such great philosophers.

The atheists reject the idea of an anthropomorphic God. But, that was God's intention from the beginning. He created the physical world, the animals, and us after a pattern that already existed. In this way, we can understand God. Thus, the scriptures state:

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

As someone said in another post. It is a thought.

Art

If you could only hear yourself. You have a great vocabulary, but don't make sense. Please don't get offended, but rather think about the statement.

The Bible existed for thousands of years. It told us that the earth was round, that it was hung on nothing. It told us the values upon which our modern government was founding with its human rights, property rights, and family values. That government even acknowledges the fact that we are created by God and that this is the basis for these rights. This gave rise to the most power nations in the world. The Bible prophesied the nations that would come and go on the earth in Western Civilization. In Daniel, it foretold the year that the Messiah would arrive. The Jews were expect Him, looking for Him for this reason, asking John or Him if they were the ones.

On the other hand, you have existed a few short years, and you have created nothing like the Bible. You have opinions that you cannot back up with any proof. You judge God and the Bible which you don't understand. This is so ironic to me, but you understand it does not make real sense.



You have this backwards. That which is an ethereal, nebulous thought in your head, has no values at all. You can't do anything with it. You can't depend on it. You don't know if it is true or not. You can't build a system of belief on it. It is worthless.

To me there is one and only one value that it offers. Its only value to you is that it keeps you from having to submit to a real defined God with authority. You don't like the authority and thus, you can justify your position by making up your own god that no one can define. Nice work.

Only truth that can be defined has value. Only a person who you know what they believe and know how they will act has value to you as a friend.

Only a God that is real, and not a figment of our imagination, has value.

Art

Do you think that God can't reason. We are the ones who don't make any sense. We protect criminals not the victims. We care more about animals and even trees than human embryos. We attempt to make peace through war. We are the ones who broadcast our plans to our enemies on the TV, radio, and newspapers.

God makes perfect sense. He does not do the stupid things we do.

[quote[

But without experience reason does not exist...does it?
I mean one must have something to hold in comparison.
Do you hold to the claim of an omniscient God, who would already know what would happen?


I am convinced that the God who created the vast universe, molecular structure, flowers, trees, and lovemaking was smart enough to decide what was right and wrong morally without having to experience it directly.

You and I can do the same thing. We don't have to drive our car into a brick wall to know that the outcome will not be good. So, without doing that, we can make a law for ourselves and others that says, "Thou shalt not drive your care into a brick wall."

Thus, without evil being present, and without personally experiencing evil, God knew it was a bad idea to murder, give false testimony in court, take someone else's wife, and so on.

After all, if you look around, and see all that existed before man ever did. You should be able to admit that He is pretty smart.

I once read a comment by a computer professor. He said that in order for us to make a computer that could do all the functions that the organic brain of a human can do, the computer would have to be the size of Texas and three miles hight.

Come on, something like our brain does not evolve. Nothing comes from nothing, and everything in life is degenerating, not getting stronger, more long lasting, or filled with more energy.

You can reason can't you? Then God can too.

Art

I am not certain that I understand what you are saying, so I will venture a guess, and forgive me if I am wrong.

If you mean that God cannot be defined, I do want to make a comment. I believe that millions don't want a God that can be defined. That way, God can be what ever they want Him to be at the time. They can do what they want, set their own rules, and no one can tell them what to do. So, they just want to leave Him undefined. That is why He defines Himself so many times in the Scriptures. Just so we know.

In that context, I agree that He cannot be defined by us, but I disagree when it comes to Him. I believe that He has defined Himself. We should accept His deinition. Some examples are as follows:

Isa 45:19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.
Isa 45:20 Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.

Exo 34:5 And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. Exo 34:6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, Exo 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Isa 46:8 Remember this, and shew yourselves men: bring it again to mind, O ye transgressors. Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:


Art

You have been working those abs there Greek God.

This is the entire point. God decided what was right and wrong. He thought it through and then made it law. By way of example, before He created the universe and our earth teeming with life, He sought wisdom. He had to figure out how long a blade of grass would be, and how the ecology would fit together, what food would taste like and what lovers would experience.

Speaking of this wisdom, God tells us:

Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. Pro 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.Pro 8:24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. Pro 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: Pro 8:26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. Pro 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: Pro 8:28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:Pro 8:29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: Pro 8:30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; Pro 8:31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

God thought it through seeking wisdom to determine how things would work. He did this before He created anything.

Art

The world we live in today is not God's world. Our current condition is a result of sin. Adam and Eve chose to follow the devil and He now rules the nations. He offered the nations of the world to Christ in the temptation, Mat 4. and He rules the world, and is the god most worship in different forms.

2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The world God created was one in which the animals did not bite and devour one another. They lived in harmony with man until sin. They now reflect the nature of the devil. He influences nations and that is why God calls the various empires Beasts. When Christ returns He will change the nature back to the way He created it.

Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

God never intended man to have illnesses and disease. Some of our diseases in America are degenerative and caused by excess sugar, smoking, chlorine in the water, unprotected sex, and so on. They are a direct result of undisciplined living.

God did not create us to be sick, and when Christ returns, He will put an end to disease.

Isa 35:5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped. Isa 35:6 Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert. Isa 35:7 And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.

Art

More Confessions

“You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we [The Roman Catholic Church] never sanctify.” Faith of Our Fathers, pg. 111, James Cardinal Gibbon

“Nor can we imagine any one foolhardy enough to question the identity of Saturday with the Sabbath or seventh day, seeing that the people of Israel have been keeping Saturday from the giving of the Law.” The Catholic Mirror, Sept. 9, 1893

“...the Redeemer, during His mortal life, never kept any other day than Saturday.” The Catholic Mirror, Sept. 2, 1893

“We deem it necessary to be perfectly clear on this point... The Bible - the Old Testament - confirmed by the living tradition of weekly practice for 3383 years by the chosen people of God, teaches, then, with absolute certainty, that God had, Himself, named the day “to be kept holy to Him”- that the day was Saturday, and that any violation of that command was punishable with death.” The Catholic Mirror, Sept.9, 1893

“There is no word, no hint, in the New Testament about abstaining from work on Sunday... into the rest of Sunday no divine law enters... The observance of Ash Wednesday or Lent stands exactly on the same footing as the observance of Sunday.” The Ten Commandments, Canon Eyton

“The Bible commandment says on the seventh day thou shalt rest. That is Saturday. Nowhere in the Bible is it laid down that worship should be done on Sunday.” Toronto Daily Star, October 26, 1949, Philip Carrington

“There was never any formal or authoritative change from the Jewish seventh-day Sabbath to the Christian first-day observance.” The Lord’s Day in Our Day, William Owen Carver

“The festival of Sunday, like all other festivals, was always only a human ordinance, and it was far from the intentions of the apostles to establish a Divine command in this respect, far from them, and from the early apostolic Church, to transfer the laws of the Sabbath to Sunday.” The History of the Christian Religion and Church, 1843, Dr. Augustus Neander

“But they err in teaching that Sunday has taken the place of the Old Testament Sabbath and therefore must be kept as the seventh day had to be kept by the children of Israel... These churches err in their teaching, for Scripture has in no way ordained the first day of the week in place of the Sabbath. There is simply no law in the New Testament to that effect.” Sabbath or Sunday, John Theodore Mueller

“Take the matter of Sunday. There are indications in the New Testament as to how the church came to keep the first day of the week as its day of worship, but there is no passage telling Christians to keep that day, or to transfer the Jewish Sabbath to that day.” Christian Advocate, July 2, 1942, Harris Franklin Rall

“But, the moral law contained in the ten commandments, and enforced by the prophets, he [Christ] did not take away. It was not the design of his coming to revoke any part of this. This is a law which never can be broken... Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind, and in all ages; as not depending either on time or place, or any other circumstances liable to change, but on the nature of God and the nature of man, and their unchangeable relation to each other.” The Works of the Reverend John Wesley, John Wesley

“The Sabbath instituted in the beginning and confirmed again and again by Moses and the Prophets, has never been abrogated.” New York Herald, 1874

“The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. This fourth commandment begins with the word ‘remember,’ showing that the Sabbath already existed when God Wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?” Weighed and Wanting, Dwight L. Moody

“It seems to have been customary in the Celtic churches of early times, in Ireland as well as Scotland, to keep Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath, as a day of rest from labor. They obeyed the fourth commandment literally upon the seventh day of the week.” The Church in Scotland, pp140, Professor James C. Moffat, D.D., Professor of Church History at Princeton

“There is much evidence that the Sabbath prevailed in Wales universally until AD 1115, when the first Roman bishop was seated at St. David’s. The old Welsh Sabbath-keeping churches did not even then altogether bow the knee to Rome, but fled to their hiding places.” Seventh Day Baptists in Europe and America, Vol. 1, p. 29, Lewis

“It was the practice generally of the Eastern Churches; and some churches of the west... For in the church of Millaine [Milan];... it seems Saturday was held in farre esteeme... Not that the Eastern churches, or any of the rest which observed that day, were inclined to Iudaisme [Judaism]; but that they came together on the Sabbath day, to worship Iesus [Jesus] Christ the Lord of the Sabbath.” History of the Sabbath Part 2, pp. 73,74, London: 1636

“The primitive Christians did keep the Sabbath of the Jews... therefore the Christians for a long time together, did keep their conventions on the Sabbath, in which some portion of the Law were read: and this continued till the time of the Laodicean council.” The Whole Works of Jeremey Taylor, Vol. IX, p. 416

Note: In 363, the local Council of Laodicea passed the following decree: “Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, resting rather on Sunday. But if any man be found to be judaizing, let them be anathema from Christ.”

“It will surely be far safer to observe the seventh day, according to express commandment of God, than on the authority of mere human conjecture to adopt the first.” Sabbath Literature, pp. 46-54, John Milton

“I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, ‘Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.’ The Catholic Church says: ‘No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.’ And lo! The entire civilized world bows down in a reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church.” Roman Catholic Priest T. Enright, C.S.S.R., in a lecture at Hartford, Kansas, Feb. 18, 1884.

"And on the seventh day God rested from the work he had done. ... He blessed the seventh day and hallowed it’. The ‘shabbat’, the biblical Sabbath, is tied to this mystery of God’s rest. If we Christians celebrate the Lord’s day on Sunday, it is because on that day the Resurrection of Christ occurred.” Pope John Paul II, July 12 1998

“Is Saturday the seventh day according to the Bible and the Ten Commandments? I answer yes. Is Sunday the first day of the week and did the Church change the seventh day - Saturday - for Sunday, the first day? I answer yes. Did Christ change the day? I answer no!” Faithfully yours, James Cardinal Gibbons – in a letter written by James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore (1877-1921), recorded in The Catholic Press, (Sydney, Australia), Aug. 25, 1900.

“...Nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the [Roman Catholic] church outside the Bible.” Catholic Virginian, Oct. 3, 1947

“Examining the New Testament from cover to cover, critically, we find the Sabbath referred to sixty-one times. We find too, that the Savior invariably selected the Sabbath (Saturday) to teach in the synagogues and work miracles. The four Gospels refer to the Sabbath fifty-one times. In one instance , the Redeemer refers to Himself as ‘Lord of the Sabbath’ as mentioned by Matthew and Luke, but, during the whole record of His life, while invariably keeping and utilizing the day, (Saturday), He never once hinted at a desire to change it.” The Catholic Mirror, Nov. 25 1893, James Cardinal Gibbons

“...with the Bible alone as the teacher and guide in faith and morals. This teacher most emphatically forbids any changes in the day for paramount reasons. The command calls for a ‘perpetual covenant’. The day commanded to be kept by the teacher (the Bible) has never once been kept (by the Protestant or Catholic churches), thereby developing an apostasy from an asumedly fixed principle, as self-contradictory, self-stultifying, and consequently as suicidal as it is within the power of language to express.” The Catholic Mirror, Nov. 25, 1893, James Cardinal Gibbons

“Everyone knows that Sunday is the first day of the week, while Saturday is the seventh day, and the Sabbath, the day consecrated as a day of rest. It is so recognized in all civilized nations, I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to any one who will furnish any proof from the Bible that Sunday is the day we are bound to keep, and no one has called for the money.” (Father T. Enright, Roman Catholic Priest, Kansas City, MO)

Whew lots of confessions here,

Art

I would ask you to think this one through. If Men created the God of the Bible, why didn't they create a god more conducive to human nature? You know--one more fun and user friendly.

Consider that if men created the morals of the Bible, then the people of the book created a god that they could live with.

They repeatedly failed to keep the laws in the Bible and eventually were punished for not keeping them.

So, imagine if men were going to create a god. They would never make a god that forbid fornication. They would never make a god who would require all those sacrifices and Sabbaths where they could not do their own thing.

If men were to create a god, it would be like the present man made gods. It would be Dionis, Santa Claus, Easter, and Samhain. It would be sex gods and alcohol gods--the ones we really worship today. It would never be anything like the God of the Bible.

In fact, no one on the forum dislikes Santa or Dionis. They like those gods. The only one they don't like is the one in the Bible because he is the one that does set a strict moral code.


Art

The Patriarch Job said this:

Job 42:3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.

There is a community.

God is not the same person as Jesus. One is a Father, the other a Son. Both Divine, but both different. Thus Jesus would ask if there was any way to avoid the beating and crucifixion. His will was different than that of the Father, but He submitted to the Father's will.

In addition there are millions of angels in the heavens that God lives and works with.

Art

Ok then,


the Strongest day?


Of course you knew. It is the Sabbath


All the rest are weak days.

Art

Well said, Thanks

Art

This is very well written. And I believe it is absolutely true! However, there is a point that Abra does not comprehend and it is this;

There was a time even before that of which he speaks. There was a time before the superstition. There was a time before the ignorance. For example, God told man the world was round before the superstition. He told man that the earth was hung on nothing. He told us to wash if we touch anything dead. He told us what animals were good for food and which to avoid before we knew about trichinosis.

There was a time when man did not have the technology that he has today, but a time when he knew the truth. However, that time when there was a true religion was taken over by a false religion, the ancient Mysteries, pretending to be Christian, and it was they who brought on the age of superstition, darkness, murder, and sickness and disease.

Here is what you don't know abra. You think that we have entered into some sort of golden age by our knowledge. You are dead wrong. We have learned how to harness enormous power technologically, but we are no different from those who perpetrated the superstition in the past. We don't know how to use that power. As a result, we will use it to destroy human life on a massive scale. We are not enlightened.

The scriptures speak of those very empires that came and oppressed. They speak of this continuing, and all has been fulfilled up to this point. Now there is one last empire to come, and it will use this power we have created to destroy and harm. Here is what the Scriptures state:

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

This is the time we live in. Man has the atom and hydrogen bombs but he does not have the wisdom or heart to know how to use this power he has discovered.

That wisdom is something we don't have inherent in us. It must come from the God that you deny exists. The world is not in such a mess because we followed the bible, it is in a mess because we, and especially the religious community, have not followed it.

Those religious leaders in the past have nothing to do with the God of the Bible. They were and are the unwitting tools of God's enemy.

You said it well, but in my mind, you draw the wrong conclusion from it.

Art

Redykeulouse, it certainly was as fine job Revo did.

Yours is such an interesting question. I wish there was a way to convey to everyone of this forum exactly how much has really changed. If you don't mind, I would like to list just a few of them.

1. God's Holy days to Pagan holidays
2. The wage of sin is death to the soul is immortal
3. No idols to statues of Mary and Jesus
4. The Kingdom of God on earth to we live forever in heaven
5. Hell is the grave to Dante's inferno--an ever burning fire
6. Not taking God's name in vain to calling priests holy Father
7. Keeping the ten commandments to the law was done away
8. God's purpose is to glorify man to our purpose is to glorify God
9. Sin is breaking God's law to sin is separation from God
10. No other Gods to acceptance of Santa, Ishtar, and Samhain
11. Repentance from dead works to only believe in Jesus required
12. Turn the other cheek to killing those who believe different
13. A gospel of a kingdom on earth, to a gospel of prosperity
14. God is a family to God is a trinity

The Scriptures speak of there being a very real devil who rules this world. It says he has deceived the entire world. I know that people would object to this, and say it is radical. However, that is part of the deception. People don't know they are deceived.

But, just look at our world. We seek peace by means of war. We protect criminals not the victims. We care more about a tree or animal than a human embryo. We treat symptoms not the disease. The justice system is not just. We are driven by greed and lust and ego. Look at the news this week and ask this question, "is it possible the world is deceived."

Just look at my little list of the changes that are the direct opposite to what the Bible teaches. I tell you the truth after nearly 40 years of study, I am convinced that there is nothing untouched. All has been perverted in one way or another. I know it is hard to believe, but in all honesty, you should be able to relate to this. It is why the atheists mock believers so much. I don't blame them. There is so much that is simply foolishness and contradiction in the modern "Christian" belief.

Thanks for the question though. I just wish I could somehow make the answer clear enough and interesting enough for people to read it.

Art