Depends on how you're defining "relation."

If you take a pedantic definition of "relationship," then no. You can't have sex without "relation."

If you are asking "is it possible to have sex without developing any feelings, rapport, or bond, to any degree whatsoever," then no, that's not possible.

If you are asking "is it possible to have sex without developing feelings, rapport, or bond, strong enough to absolutely change your life and behavior, plus it's going to acquire more effort and conscious choice to fight against the development of feelings, rapport, or bond," then yes, that's possible.


They're lying to themselves and there's a shelf life on that relationship.


Sex also causes hormonal changes in the body as well as affects the brain, memories, perspective, all sorts of things.


Generally not objectively in the moment.
People will get their hamster wheel spinning at light speed, or rationalize whatever they have to, in order to maintain pleasure, accomplishment, and fulfillment, and convenient, stable, ongoing access to it.
It's usually after that heightened state of arousal or pleasure wears off and the easy access is no longer possible, reestablishing a normal (or lowered) mental resting state, when people start asking "why do I go for what's bad for me?! How do I stop doing that?!"

Depends on the person.
People can exhibit similar behavior for different reasons.
But for the most part, none of those reasons are all that positive.

So there's:
- A fetish. They grew up watching MILF porn, or their sexual development was around "older" people.

- Parental issues. They're trying to find someone to replace their mommy or daddy. Either to get "revenge" on their parent, to replace what was missing, or to reenact/reacquire the type of "love" they experienced as a child possibly because they don't know how to identify any other kind.

- Social validation and hierarchy. When people are teens they try to be seen as "adults." They don't like to be marginalized, like "you're just a kid, you wouldn't understand."
So they go after the trappings of what they think make them look like an adult, like they "understand."
Drink, drink coffee, smoke, get a car, go to college and get "woke," move out "on their own," get an older "partner." If the older person sees them as a "serious" romantic interest, then they "must" be their peer, they must be taken as seriously and knowledgeable as all the other "adults." Transferred authority in a sense.

- Beta, simping, orbiting, security. Some people feel better working for others. They feel "safer" working for an employer rather than starting their own business, or with an unknown partner.
Someone "older" can be seen as "easier" in acquiring the security of a relationship. The "older" person is established, the "older" person has developed relationships, career, social trappings like a home.
The "older" person has their "life together, takes care of themselves," and the younger just wants to slip in and be covered by that umbrella of someone that "seems" to know what they're doing, stable, providing the "younger" person with something in exchange for youth, energy, beauty, exuberance, and wearing their emotions on their sleeve.

- Guaranteed shelf life. A lot of people don't "really" want relationships that last. They may want something dramatic, they may want just sex, they may just want a compartmentalized short term relationship that's guaranteed to fail due to the irreconcilable differences that stem from age disparity.

- Stereotypes. Some people see older as "easier." They perceive older people to not want sex as much, therefore "serious" about an ego validating relationship and not after just "one thing," so less having to figure out if they're being "used" or not.
Some people see older as "easier" and "desperate" for attention or a relationship, not having to compete with as many people.

- Sometimes it's some combination of the above, or over time one morphs into another.


"Ok" isn't all that relevant.
It is "normal" to have feelings for (insert whatever descriptor here. Older, younger, fat, thin, ugly, hot, blonde, crippled, whatever) women while you are at your peak.
One thing you should realize is all "feelings" you have specifically towards women (assuming you are hetero) are based on procreation.
The rest is just rationalizing your approach and tactics to be "successful" at getting what you really want. Basic motivation is to attempt to procreate.


Not much to discuss.
At best you want to learn your own motives.
At worst you just want an opening to wax poetic about "older women" as though that will earn you some kind of brownie points.

Sort of.
Really depends on how you define "relationship" and "children."

Sometimes when people ask about "relationships" what they're asking is "is it possible to just remain in the early infatuation stage where we're constantly excited, love being around each other, overlooking flaws, constantly turned on and having sex, and just take pleasure in each other?"

And when talking about "children" some people only mean human biological offspring.
Not considering "fur babies," or career(s)/hobbies as replacement "children," although they ultimately should.
Take people that found their partner on OLD or in forums like these, but stick around OLD sites, or on forums. Sometimes that's a form of "cheating," and continued attempts to fulfill what the relationship is missing because they "settled." For others it becomes their "baby," what they have to spend more time supporting, building psuedo bonds and relationships with. It is a separate relationship, but related to the relationship.

So if you're asking "is it possible to have a deeply connected, pair bonded, romantic relationship that lasts our entire lives where there are no offspring, and there are no instances of infidelity, arguments, break ups and getting back together, it's healthy without a lot of delusion and rationalizing, and it's a perpetually fulfilling, happy, blissful, and content, relationship," then no.

If you're asking "can I find a relationship with an expiration date, it's all good, and there's no children involved," then yes.

If you're asking "can I find a deeply connected, pair bonded, etc. etc. relationship where over time they don't have a wandering eye towards something to provide more fulfillment as they get acclimated to and build a tolerance for the relationship, seeking out other means of emotional, social, and mental validation, or purpose to the relationship outside of their partner?"
Then no.

Okay.
Seems you've billboarded a simple profile here.

These are the forums...You've got plenty of room to elaborate, plenty of space to tell people exactly what you're looking for, what that looks like, what you contribute to that, roles, expectations, etc.

What do you mean by "serious?" I mean what you posted is kinda vague.
It's basically "x & y trigger my pleasure zones."
What is "serious?" Just an activity partner to wear a lot of red and blue, go with you wandering outside overnight, swimming, and spending time with your daughter?

What are your experiences with maintaining or contributing to how you define a "serious" relationship? Do you believe you are automatically/inherently capable of (however you define) a "serious" relationship? Why?

Are you focused on the end goal? What's the process you see happening, if any.
How long emailing? How long phoning/texting? What do you need to know/feel before meeting?
Exactly what behavior or information do you look for to get you to knowing/feeling like you want to meet?

Also, can it be anyone? Men? Women? A certain age? Income level? Amount of free time? Are there any physical requirements? Mental? Emotional? Social?
How far away are you willing to date?

What do you see is ultimately the purpose of the "serious" relationship?
Is it all about the emotional "love honor cherish," until the tingles go away?
Do you want kids? Are you expecting future expansion of your professional life? Planning on going back to school and get advanced degrees? Or just kinda exist for each other?

It would probably help you to really focus on details.
I mean when you look for a job do you just post a resume that says "my favorite uniform colors are red and blue. I really like spending time at a computer, and in the field, and lots of time off to spend with my daughter. I'm really looking for a career!"

If you were building a house would you send your architect "I like red and blue, I like nice views, easy egress to the outdoors, and plenty of space to play with my daughter. I'm looking for a home!"

If you were baking a cake would you like the recipe to read "Use some red and blue frosting, hope you like it light and fluffy and really sweet," and then no ingredients, or oven temperatures, or folding procedures?

I could understand that since profiles tend to have a limited amount of space.
But, here you can go nuts, let it all out.
Please, feel free to expound.

Like a lot of "disorders" via sociological plus physiological variables.
(experience interacting with biology).


"Things" are just shortcut triggers to the release of certain hormones, brain chemicals, neurotransmitters.
All of which affect mood and behavior. Like listening to the Halloween theme just freaks people out, even those that haven't ever watched the movie.
Some people are freaked out by the Halloween theme. Others the Jaws theme and Halloween does nothing for them. Some people aren't freaked out by the Halloween theme at all, instead they laugh as they remember a funny halloween experience.

Take dopamine and its relation to pain, stress, and emotions, let alone pleasure.

Also, the bonding process when you're "falling in love."
Heightened states of arousal and awareness. You know when you're really really into someone and you stop being able to see flaws? Or what flaws are there don't seem so bad? People also are exposed to new things. And part of the bonding process is "rewiring" your associations. So things that are "bad" before, or simply innocuous, introduced during heightened states of arousal become associated with that state of pleasure or bliss. And then it just becomes part of the "formula" for how to recreate that pleasure or bliss.

And you do understand evolution and why it shows the idea of intelligent design and a singular creator are flawed? Because people are flawed.
Brains and the body's systems aren't designed "perfectly." There is a lot of variability from one person to the next. Even though it's microscopic, it can ultimately lead to huge differences in behavior and the reasons "why."
Take brain "overlapping." Parts of the brain that are associated with different processes are triggered. Like people curling their toes during orgasm. Why would feet be triggered by something happening to the genitals.


"Fetishes" aren't really like a value menu where they're created by the same process, for the same reasons. It's not like a super soldier serum program where if you could just copy it then you can create an army of shoe lovers.
One person can develop a fetish for shoes primarily due to something like the "foot" area of the brain being triggered at the same time as their orgasm.
Another can develop the same "fetish" because they watched a bunch of porn where everyone wore shoes, another develops it because as they were going through puberty their mom kept buying new shoes and the new shoe smell stuck as they were constantly masturbating.
Among many other reasons.

If you want a tldr, fetishes are formed (or "come from") because people naturally look for and subconsciously develop shortcuts in their paradigms or formulas for how to navigate reality.

"Fetishes" is simply a term (generally) used for a "sexuality" behavioral subset of reality.

Kind of like a sexual opposite of "phobia." You ever see those people that just cringe in fear when they see a frog? Or a cinco de mayo candy skull? Or gun? Or aluminum foil? They simply stop being able to function normally when faced with certain "objects," whereas "fetishes" are incapable of sexual behavior unless that "item" is utilized as well.

Well what exactly are you trying?
I mean this OP seems like just a big billboard trying to attract traffic.


How many sites are you on?
What exactly are you doing on those sites? Emailing people? Going the passive aggressive approach?
Like are you looking at profiles and trying to start up conversations?
Or are you just using the "pokes," or, "nudges," or "likes" features?
Are you looking at the "viewed me" sections and then changing your profile to what you think those looking at you are looking for?

Are you using anything other than dating sites/apps?


That's what a lot of people say.
But what exactly are your experiences?
For example a lot of women put "No ONS! No hookups! Not here for sex! No FWB! Tired of the f-boys!" But when you ask them about their experiences, that's generally what happens. They go out, and surprise surprise they keep dating the guys and go along and getting exactly that.
Instead of taking any responsibility for their choices, they play the victim, using it to rationalize not trying, but justifying feeling righteous using passive aggressive behavior and being entitled.

And there are some women that put they're looking for their "soulmate" or "the one," or something, but they never actually date, they always find some flaw, some reason to never meet. Never date. At most they'll get into an email pseudo relationship where they just chat back and forth and then build up a false sense of commitment and bonding. They aren't looking for "the one," or a "soul mate," they just want attention, entertainment, to feel desired and chased, to feel as though they have social cache.
Most of the time that gets old. They don't get the same chemical high after a while, so they go find forums or boards and then start complaining "where are the good ones?!" and paint themselves as victims...in order to get attention, to form more safe, distant, controllable pseudo relationship/echo chambers.

Or kind of like pricing cars.
Let's say you have 10 Lamborghini's. The expectation could be that you sell each of them for $100.000, and you go to an online market place, but no one's buying them for that much, so you sell 8 for $10,000 because that's all anyone's willing to offer, and you accept to just get by and pay the bills, but then you start demanding people pay $460,000 for the last two in order to make up for how much you wanted in the beginning, not realizing that the market is setting the price at $10,000 and you don't get to control it?

Point being, what are the expectations vs. reality.
There's what you hoped for. What did you expect you would have to do to get it?
What are you actually doing? And what is actually happening?


So, you say:
"sometimes feel tired of trying "
but what are you actually trying?

I mean think of careers.
Some people get so tired of going to employer after employer on job sites like linkedin or indeed.
But they never really updated their resume, they never took classes to acquire the skills the employers actually want, they never really considered that employers are comparing them to every other applicant.
At most they've just decided on how much they want to make, and the type of corporate culture they want to be a part of, and what kind of hours they want to work, and how much vacation time and minimum benefits they're going to demand when they get an interview.


I don't know, I just wonder. Are you tired of trying? Or are you realizing how much you need to do in order to be successful, and you really just don't want to do it?

I don't.
IMO that's a terrible thing to try and do.
I prefer to respect boundaries.
We're friends for a reason.
I prefer to appreciate things for what they are and try to avoid proving the Peter Principle.

Personally, I see this as no different from asking "How do you get your stepdaughter to fall in love with you? I'm not married to her mother anymore and it's not like we're related by blood. I helped raise her and we got real close, but I realize now that I'm in love with her. How do I get her to stop seeing me as her stepfather and start seeing me as a potential lover and mate?"

IMO when you play the "friends first" or "fell in love with my friend!" game, all you're ultimately doing is teaching them "hey, you can't trust friends to not have ulterior motives, and any boundaries established over time don't really mean anything."

Not to mention what's positive about this situation: "Hey! We're close friends...but like I can't honestly talk to you about how I feel and what's going on with me, so I went with my one sided biased approach and asked a bunch of online strangers advice about our relationship and how to change it in order to get more of my emotional (and possibly physical) needs met."


If that were true, this thread wouldn't exist.
If that's not really true about your relationship...then about what else are you lying to them or yourself?


IMO you've already stopped being friends.
Either "the ability to share anything" is a lie that doesn't really exist, or it used to be there but now that has changed and you're keeping your feelings from her (not sharing "anything" anymore, again, if you did this thread wouldn't exist).

Relationship has changed, you're not sharing everything, especially things of major significance.

Other than that, the excuse "I don't want to lose the friendship!" is BS.
Here's a translation: "I like using you like an emotional tampon and fluffer while I try to date up. I like keeping you in the background as my safety net."

And my god, did you read what you wrote here:

So basically she was cheating on her boyfriend with you, and you orbited her, fluffing her?
But she still chose to remain in at least that relationship for how long?
For how long was she banging some other guy in a "serious" relationship while she "looked at you that way, tells you more than a girl shares with a guy, calls you first when she's in trouble, showing more care than is normal between friends?"

At best this thread reads as "I've had ulterior motives this entire time! Now's my chance, what's the best way to manipulate this opportunity towards my success?"
At worst it's "I've been helping my friend cheat on her boyfriend(s), at least emotionally, making sure she can't completely bond with her potential mates."

So, "How do you get a girl to fall in love with you, if she's a close friend?"
In this situation, based on the information in the thread, "love" isn't really possible.
At best what's going to happen is you have sex with your friend, then either you start to withdraw, or she starts saying "it just happened!" and "it was a mistake," and the "friendship" ends anyway.

At worst what's going to happen is you start passive aggressively trying to communicate your unrequited "love," she keeps taking advantage but maintaining distance until she finds a new guy to start dating and banging and calling you whenever there's a problem, and you're in this same situation when that fails.

Good luck with that!

I don't know why people give a crap.

Used to be people would sit there and refresh their "viewed me" page measuring the time until someone no longer showed as "online now," and freak out if they didn't receive any contact. "Why view me if you aren't going to contact me?!?!"

Or they'd measure the time between someone's profile showing as "online now" and when their email showed as "read," and when they received a return email.

Or people that pay particular attention to exactly how much time it takes between texts.

To me it seems like what would happen if a dog had thumbs, waiting for their owner to come home from work. They'd be sitting there constantly checking their phone and texting their owner out of sheer emotional insecurity.

Of course, it used to be when you wanted to talk to someone you'd just call them and ask them what they're up to, and hopefully ask to get together...and if they were doing something else? Gasp, you'd have to find something else to do other than sit around playing biased perspective detective in your own head.

I wonder if there are employees sitting around Netflix looking at when you sign on, then saying to themselves, all apoplectic and worried, "why aren't they starting a movie?! Are they just browsing and bored? Are they looking up times, are they searching other titles? What's going on?!?! Why won't they just start a show?! Why just ghost their watch it now list?!?!"


Used to be all the rage getting in touch with your inner child.
I really hope what becomes the rage is getting in touch with being an adult.

To me "crushing" implies ongoing feelings that aren't being communicated.

I'm an adult. Relationships are based on communication.

I'm not going to be held responsible for other peoples insecurities.

Am I attracted to them? I will say something. I will tell them how I feel and what I would like to do. I make my communication about myself and avoid telling them how they do, or should, feel, which means I don't try to drag it out of them either.

If I'm not attracted to them? Are they making me uncomfortable with their attentions or insecure passive aggressive "crushing" behavior? I'm going to tell them to go away.

Or IOW I don't try to "figure out" if someone's "crushing" on me. That's for them to grow up and communicate. At most I'm going to figure out if I'm "crushing" on them, and do something about that.
So for me it doesn't really matter if they're "crushing" on me.
Do I want to date them? I'll tell them. If they say no? Oh well.
Are they acting how I would define as oddly around me? I'll either ask them to tell me what's going on, or I will tell them to go away.


I'm not sure exactly how you mean this.
I don't approach friendships like romantic relationships and dating.
If some random stranger came up to me and said "will you be my friend?" I'd probably laugh in their face.
Again, I'm not a child.

There's got to be an organic approach.
Last "friend" I made was just some stranger at the shooting range. I asked about what he was shooting, we talked about recoil, grips, we let each other fire off a few rounds of our respective guns, we talked about guns, we saw each other at the range a few times after that, we went over to a gun show.
There was no "approaching for friendship," there was just "approaching as a friendly human being."
Other than that, it's consistently asserting my own boundaries and comfort zone and communicating.
I don't know if that dude is gay or not, I don't care, I won't ask. I'm not gay. I don't want to date him.
If he was "crushing" on me and started acting weird, I'd call him on his behavior. If he said he was "crushing" on me and liked me, I'd tell him I'm not interested, and most likely not talk to him again.

But I don't see friendships as interim or orbital emotional tampons until a romantic relationship comes along where it's all "I don't want to lose the friendship! I don't know what to do!?! Waaaah!"
Friendships are the easiest thing to make as long as you're friendly to people and are consistent with your personality and boundaries.


So these kind of questions I don't really understand.
To me they seem like "I'm an insecure person, I need some guarantee before I make a decision or commit to what I think or feel or want. I want things handed to me. I want there to be no consequences, conflict, or any negative emotions whatsoever. I want my cake and to eat it too. I want someone guaranteed to stick around and wholeheartedly experiment, totally committed each time, in the types of relationships available until we find one that works, if one doesn't, then they're committed to the other."

Hindsight.

There are no surefire, 100% guaranteed, external shortcuts you can pre-apply to any and all random strangers to absolutely determine their internal emotional state, thoughts, and/or feelings, setting them in concrete.

At best you can come up with things that mitigate the risks of them pretending.

I imagine setting up something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0oV7y6eM9A

Not sure of the situation.

Never met in person and you honestly want a long term meaningful romantic relationship?
No. Not "okay."

Never met in person and you're really just looking for a compartmentalized pseudo relationship, but maybe you tell yourself and other people you're looking for something "real" or "true love" but for some cruel universal reason everyone within a 5000 mile radius just isn't "right?"
Kind of like being hungry and just needing some quick fast food rather than learning how to cook or worrying about nutrition, but you're full of self delusion so you tell yourself "well, it's got onions, pickles, and ketchup, so that counts as vegetables, plus some protein, therefore fulfills the minimum requirements of proving I'm serious and want something real and nutritionally long lasting!?"
Yes. It's okay. Because you're only going to find someone similar.

Have already established an in person, face to face, relationship and some level of meaningful communication, you just happen to be separated by distance due to some circumstance (e.g. school, work)?
Yes. It's "okay."

Okay...great. That's a sentiment...

Now how exactly and specifically do you do that?

What difficulties do you face in doing that in a potentially diverse world where a show of respect according to how you understand it, or how you think it should be communicated, is taken as a sign of disrespect?
Do your intentions trump their perceptions?

Also, how do you handle people/women who don't respect you, themselves, and/or others?
How do you reconcile it when people are trying to respect themselves but that means they have to, in some way, disrespect others?

Wonderful.


Which "society?"
The one tearing down statues?
The one that lives on social media?
The one that just works 9-5?
The one that is arming up and protesting against other armed protestors?
The one that's mega rich or super poor?

Seems the only "norm" anymore is "don't diddle kids, and don't be violent."
Anything else you try, you're going to find support from some and rage from others.


How could anyone, other than maybe your actual soulmate, tell you how to be a random persons soulmate?
Seems kinda like asking "Hey, random person on the bus I've never met before. What do you think my perfect career is," or, "I'm thinking about getting my career going. I don't know what that is. But exactly what education and skills will guarantee success?"

Other than that, if you're rebuilding yourself, why would you want random strangers to tell you who you should/could be?
I mean what happens when someone tells you to be something and you're incapable of doing it? Is that going to cause you to feel depressed and start hating yourself for who you can't be, or others for having a standard you can't live up to?
Meaningful information is not only valuable, but comes with a heavy burden of responsibility.

A realistic perspective on behavior and expectations.
You aren't "the rebound girl."
He's simply using you.
He's using you because you are choosing to make it convenient for him to do so.


You aren't a victim.
If you can't get over something, get away from it.


That is immaterial. Doesn't matter at all.


I wonder what lesson was actually learned.
I always wonder what lessons could have been learned but were missed entirely.

I don't know anymore.
People keep redefining the term.

I've been talking to people online and they just stopped responding.

With online dating sites I've emailed a person a couple of times and they've emailed back, then I sign in the next day and their profile has disappeared.

I've had friends in like grade, middle, and high school where over the summer or during the school year they just disappeared and I never heard from them again. Learning from a teacher or someone that their parents got a new job so they just upped and moved to a new city/state/country.

I had friends in college that stopped responding after graduating, just moving on with their life putting everything else behind them kind of thing.

I've gone on pleasant dates and they've never called me back.

I've never been in a romantic relationship for weeks, months, years, where they've just disappeared, cut all contact, without any indication there was something wrong, without any evidence of distancing, or any change beforehand whatsoever.

Whichever is the quickest and most convenient means of setting up something in person.

Be poor.

Or were you trying to ask something more like "The anti-bucket list. What are things you never want to do that other people seem to idealize to a degree where they create a bucket list, where their life isn't complete until accomplished or experienced?"
Then what I hope I never do is live such a sad life I have to create a bucket list.


I'm screwed in that regard.
I've eaten rabbit before.
If you are what you eat, and I've eaten a vegan...
I've been overcompensating by eating all sorts of other animals.
I've also eaten squirrels, so far that hasn't affected my sexuality.
Thank goodness for all that bull's milk.

Is that a question or a statement with an accidental question mark at the end?

Other than that, it depends on the pain.

I mean there's a huge difference between things like:
"My mom has alzheimer's and doesn't know who I am anymore."
and
"my wife just chopped off my penis while I was sleeping and put it in the disposal."
and
"they didn't share their flaming hot cheetos with me."
and
"I was in the car with my best friend when he had a heart attack, the car crashed into a tree, and now both my legs and an arm are broken.


You aren't really differentiating between deliberate or indirect pain.
Intentional or accidental. Or if it's even pain I'm associating with that specific person vs. being in pain and pushing all people away.
Nor what kind of pain (mental, physical, emotional).
Not even short vs. long term.


So...yes? Depending on a lot of factors I will spend an unspecified amount of time deliberating to some unknown degree on whether or not I wish to continue participating in a relationship with one or more people as well as the possibility or not for potential future reconciliation?

Conditionally? Most everything I do.

Unconditionally? Self interest.