fear is an important survival feature and a natural one that helps us learn to plan and prepare for potential risks and obstacles

'fear by any means' suggests the sole purpose is to create fear

when 'preperation' is more the point for most who choose to discipline,,,

does the fire hurt for the purpose of pain,, or does it hurt to cause an association with something that will deter one from harming themselves in the future?


Ive never wanted my children to be fearful, but I do want them to be prepared for the REALITY that choices in real life have real and sometimes unpleasant consequences

that I will not always be around to coddle or 'respect' and 'understand' them,, and they need to be prepared for real time consequences that will rarely involve those things once they are grown,,,

I agree 100%. In order to respect authority there must be respect and trust instilled from a young age. For example if police officers are nice and friendly with kids (and other innocent civilians), they will grow up to appreciate them. But when they only see policemen beating people up and shooting innocent people, they grow up with only fear. When they grow up and a cop stops them, their first instinct will be fight or flight. I mean this is happening now and how is it working out? Cops acting like/being thugs isn't working out very well for society I'd say...this is only an example.

I wouldn't go so far as to accuse you of committing crimes, abusive does not mean crime always. In the eyes of the law you are within your limits I do believe. I am judging but I have said I'm sure you love your kid/kids it's obvious to anyone reading this. I just don't like the punishing part.
Even I said that if I ever (I'm not infallible as a parent) use this fear tactic on my child I would immediately feel like I made a mistake. My conscience is strongly telling me not to hurt my own child. This is how 'God' created mothers to be.
Now if you are trying to help your child to fit into a crazy messed up world, that is not the only way. Parents must teach their kids how to survive but the first thing to teach children is love and trust and respect and all that stuff. They need to learn to use their good qualities in life first, because this is enough and the foundation for normal life. Later on they can learn how to use their fists to protect themselves and others sure why not. But they should never learn how to take a beating or how to beat other people up for not behaving right.

a spanking is not being 'beaten' up


,,but whatever,,,

Wow, the redundancy is overwhelming. *sigh*

Taking away privileges is not construed as abuse, is it, Estelle? Toys? I'm not saying the favorite blankie that they suck their thumb with, but something that they don't need. That does not create fear. Teaches boundaries.

Your culture is not your kids culture. It's the problem that most parents tend to ignore. Spanking is a punishment. Punishments inflict pain and fear. You can't be serious when you say spanking isn't a punishment and fear isn't what it breeds.

there is no idiot here, ,,,,

there are things I take from different 'cultures' based upon the results I observe

spanking in my 'culture' seems to have worked much better than 'leaving kids to raise themselves',,,,,has in other cultures

I also never said it didn't cause 'fear',, in fact I said fear is important and useful to survival



we all have it, whether we admit it or not,, in order to survive,,

and it doesn't harm kids if it is used in conjunction with the goal of survival either

from my observation kids raised to not fear any consequences are the ones that grow up to run the most amuck,,,,,


not all of them for sure,, but the ones who do, are usually being raised that way, coddled, kept away from any natural but umpleasant realities like punishment, consequence, or 'fear', or rejection,,,etc,,

totally ill prepared to deal with the hard parts of REAL LIFE or to feel as if anything should be hard for them,,,,

Children will learn from example about how to treat people. If you're patient with them they will learn patience. If you spank them to get your way, they will learn that. It is possible to be firm with them without spanking or scolding. And another thing if you are spanking them because they think church is funny for example then you are overstepping your parental control over them. I used to laugh in church because it was silly, and no amount of punishment would change my mind. Only got me to dislike church. You should know that kids have their own minds, they aren't always going to be your carbon copies. Is this a surprise?

Too many women I see becoming mothers because they want to control their kids. I watch this and shake my head in sadness. Kids are not your property and you're not their master. You're their guidance, confidant, their compassionate and supportive teacher. No wonder kids these days are so spoiled and find day dreaming uncreative. The trust on both sides is nonexistent. You don't own their mind just because you gave birth to them. You push them further away when you use bs intimidating tactics that supposedly worked on you. Also when you raise them through religion, the issue falls further down the rabbit hole of reason.

Neighbor guy said to me yesterday that the new meth head mother down the block, grabbed her 12 year old son by the hair and hauled him back into the house from the window. ...nobody's seen the kids outside since two days before that. Said they reported it to the police. She won't open the door. Eviction is in the process evidently. Poor kids.

Who are you referring to? Not me. My son has always been creative (and encouraged) we have always done fun mother/son things together. He is 24 now and my best friend. We hang out all the time. We can confide in each other. We are friends but he still respects me as his mom.

So please don't act as if you know other's relationships or an authority on the subject

I was talking to somebody else. Notice I concluded with religion.

Look at what I wrote before you go off in defensive attack mode. I wasn't talking about you at all.

My son and my whole family is all the study I need. End of story

I can't comment on how others handle things because I'm not there. Don't pretend to be an expert for others

You can't confirm that spanking/scolding a child is healthy parenting. I was just talking from an observation that makes me upset to see. Don't tell me I can't speak my mind.

I confirm it by my son and many generations. Speak your mind. When you talk about "you" you talk about many. If whatever you do with your kid works, great. My kid is my best friend and thinks this is ridiculous

I didn't address you by name nor did I bring up the details in your personal life. You did that. I was only stating an opinion and you thought I was taking about you. I wasn't. Does no mean no anymore? Probably not.

So sad

I practice non-violent parenting. Therefore scolding in public is abuse.


I ask all of the people here to look at this diagram and consider how familiar it is to the wheel of domestic violence. If you can imagine your child as an adult partner, you would not verbally abuse (scold) them in public. Considering children as less worthy because they are not grown dismisses them as humans.





I knew we could find some common ground Estelle. Kudos to you on your parenting beliefs.

I agree. I was never yanked by my hair when being spanked or in any other day to day. I did fall on my ample behind more times than I can count in the day to day, and occasionally hurt it instead being spanked. I didn't die, learned boundaries AND respect of boundaries and a healthy 'fear' of consequence instead.