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| Topic: Do You Have The Right To Believe | |
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Edited by
funches
on
Tue 03/06/12 07:02 AM
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Cowboy is completely misunderstanding what turning the other cheek means....and is therefore makng God's Word look like a bunch of FOOLISHNESS .......I already suggested that he do a proper study on the meaning...and not take that scripture out of context like he did.... wasn't the Crucuifixion an example of Jesus turning the other cheek ...because if MsHarmony was his lawyer she would have got him off on probation |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Tue 03/06/12 06:54 AM
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YES..in that same exact spot in the bible , that
scripture means the same thing in every version of the bible...it means do not murder....priod !!! HOWEVER... the word "kill" is ALSO used in OTHER spots thruout the bible also..and that is where we find that the word " kill", has a DIFFERENT meaning then.....  |
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YES..in that same exact spot in the bible , that scripture means the same thing in every version of the bible...it means do not murder....priod !!! HOWEVER... the word "kill" is ALSO used in OTHER spots thruout the bible also..and that is where we find that the word " kill", has a DIFFERENT meaning then..... are you willing to use that same argument to prove that The Holy Ghost doesn't mean the same as The Holy Spirit |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Tue 03/06/12 07:12 AM
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Here is an example of when NOT to just turn the other cheek : family members are being brutally attacked . When it comes to a situation like the above mentioned ,That is most definitely NOT the time to turn the other cheek....and that scripture does not even apply to that situation... to try and apply the scripture to that situation is called misusing scripture and applying it foolishly..
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Holy Ghost...Holy Spirit.....same meanng thruout Scripture...
just some words have more than one meaning... gotta run... Have a good day Funches and everyone now.........
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Here is an example of when NOT to just turn the other cheek : family members are being brutally attacked . When it comes to a situation like the above mentioned ,That is most definitely NOT the time to turn the other cheek....and that scripture does not even apply to that situation... to try and apply the scripture to that situation is called misusing scripture and applying it foolishly.. Would you please enlighten us with a verse(s) that supports this. Because outside of being passive, I have never read or even heard of a teaching from Jesus that was not passive. |
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Here is an example of when NOT to just turn the other cheek : family members are being brutally attacked . When it comes to a situation like the above mentioned ,That is most definitely NOT the time to turn the other cheek....and that scripture does not even apply to that situation... to try and apply the scripture to that situation is called misusing scripture and applying it foolishly.. ok...I'll play it your way so when Jesus was being brutally attacked....did Mary his Mother try to kill his attackers or did she turn the other cheek? |
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CowboyGH still waiting for your answer here : If a man break into my house with intent to murder my child or woman... I will kill him if I must to stop him. There is most definately a different meaning in the words murder and kill. Or would you consider what I did 'murder' and so punish me? CoyboyGH said: Would be murder. Chocolina said: In this way how you gonna name that act when God has drown all ppl including babies in that ? CowboyGH said : No, a judgement is not murder. If a judgement was murder, there would be no such thing as the death penalty. For if a judge sentenced someone to death, the judge and the executioner(s) would then also have to be sentenced with murder. That is why we are not to murder, for Jesus is the judge, not us. Then the father killing his child by his judgement will be innocent , based on your claim ??? ??? Not sure exactly what you're talking about here, but I'm pretty sure you're speaking of the crucifixion. CowboyGH , you make me laugh now ... I'm patient .. read it .. don't behave like Smeck's offspring now 
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Cowboy.
Turning the Other Cheek Scriptures: 1. Psalm 82:4 Rescue the weak and needy; Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked. Someone, like say a child, or your wife; is getting abused/violated by a stranger (ie this case "wicked) would be defined as "defending" and "rescuing" the weak. 2. Proverbs 24:11 Deliver those who are drawn toward death, And hold back those stumbling to the slaughter. 3. Ezekiel 33 "... 6 'But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman's hand.' See this one? The watchmen has the OBLIGATION to "take a stand" for if he does not, his own blood will be sought. If you are in the position to HELP/AID/WARN ANYONE who can/will FALL victim to the WICKEDNESS of someone else, we as HUMANS, are OBLIGATED to do so. God, in the Old Testament, he held it in the same regard: 4. Genesis 9:5-6 5 And surely your blood, the blood of your lives, will I require; At the hand of every beast will I require it. And at the hand of man, even at the hand of every man's brother, will I require the life of man. 6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: For in the image of God made he man. If a man was killed, the man or beast who caused the death must pay with his/its own life. God says here, "I will require the life of man." Killing or bloodshed was not always wrong. But when it was wrong, the penalty was ultimate. NOW AGAIN LET ME POINT OUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN: MURDER and KILL. Commandment: "Thou Shalt Not MURDER." Deut. 19:4: "...whoever kills his neighbor unintentionally, not having hated him in time past...". Unintentionally, not premeditated; but upon accident or the defense therein; NOT MURDER, thus as such it is FORGIVABLE. This verse also goes on to even give an example: "as when a man goes to the woods with his neighbor to cut timber, and his hand swings a stroke with the ax to cut down the tree, and the head slips from the handle and strikes his neighbor so that he dies". You can see perfectly here. He "killed" his neighbor but he did not "murder" for such was NOT premeditated. These verses: Ex. 21:14, Deut. 19:11, Num 35:16 Give prime examples of MURDER and NOT killing. And here we go with one last example of Self Defense: Exodus 22:2 2 "If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed." ..does it get anymore obvious? No guilt - No sin - No crime. This is the foundation for what we now consider: "Self-Defense". (Maybe not the guilt part, but its stating you need not to feel guilt, not that there is no guilt.) Booyah! |
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Cowboy. Turning the Other Cheek Scriptures: 1. Psalm 82:4 Rescue the weak and needy; Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked. Someone, like say a child, or your wife; is getting abused/violated by a stranger (ie this case "wicked) would be defined as "defending" and "rescuing" the weak. 2. Proverbs 24:11 Deliver those who are drawn toward death, And hold back those stumbling to the slaughter. 3. Ezekiel 33 "... 6 'But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman's hand.' See this one? The watchmen has the OBLIGATION to "take a stand" for if he does not, his own blood will be sought. If you are in the position to HELP/AID/WARN ANYONE who can/will FALL victim to the WICKEDNESS of someone else, we as HUMANS, are OBLIGATED to do so. God, in the Old Testament, he held it in the same regard: 4. Genesis 9:5-6 5 And surely your blood, the blood of your lives, will I require; At the hand of every beast will I require it. And at the hand of man, even at the hand of every man's brother, will I require the life of man. 6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: For in the image of God made he man. If a man was killed, the man or beast who caused the death must pay with his/its own life. God says here, "I will require the life of man." Killing or bloodshed was not always wrong. But when it was wrong, the penalty was ultimate. NOW AGAIN LET ME POINT OUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN: MURDER and KILL. Commandment: "Thou Shalt Not MURDER." Deut. 19:4: "...whoever kills his neighbor unintentionally, not having hated him in time past...". Unintentionally, not premeditated; but upon accident or the defense therein; NOT MURDER, thus as such it is FORGIVABLE. This verse also goes on to even give an example: "as when a man goes to the woods with his neighbor to cut timber, and his hand swings a stroke with the ax to cut down the tree, and the head slips from the handle and strikes his neighbor so that he dies". You can see perfectly here. He "killed" his neighbor but he did not "murder" for such was NOT premeditated. These verses: Ex. 21:14, Deut. 19:11, Num 35:16 Give prime examples of MURDER and NOT killing. And here we go with one last example of Self Defense: Exodus 22:2 2 "If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed." ..does it get anymore obvious? No guilt - No sin - No crime. This is the foundation for what we now consider: "Self-Defense". (Maybe not the guilt part, but its stating you need not to feel guilt, not that there is no guilt.) Booyah! Not to be rude here, but sin_and_sorrow, you've found nothing of which I request. I asked for a teaching from JESUS that was anything but passive. Yes the old testament has a lot of things that aren't passive, for we were judged by our peers in that day and age on Earth when it happened. You've posted not one teaching of JESUS that supports anything but passiveness. These things you posted have been fulfilled, completed, we are no longer to do these things which you posted. These things are things of the old covenant, which Jesus again fulfilled. |
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CowboyGH still waiting for your answer here : If a man break into my house with intent to murder my child or woman... I will kill him if I must to stop him. There is most definately a different meaning in the words murder and kill. Or would you consider what I did 'murder' and so punish me? CoyboyGH said: Would be murder. Chocolina said: In this way how you gonna name that act when God has drown all ppl including babies in that ? CowboyGH said : No, a judgement is not murder. If a judgement was murder, there would be no such thing as the death penalty. For if a judge sentenced someone to death, the judge and the executioner(s) would then also have to be sentenced with murder. That is why we are not to murder, for Jesus is the judge, not us. Then the father killing his child by his judgement will be innocent , based on your claim ??? ??? Not sure exactly what you're talking about here, but I'm pretty sure you're speaking of the crucifixion. CowboyGH , you make me laugh now ... I'm patient .. read it .. don't behave like Smeck's offspring now Well you just said "father" killing his "child" as a judgement. So I assumed you were referring to Jesus and his father. For anyone other then God doesn't have the authority to kill anyone even out of judgement. That judgement is entirely in the hands of our God. So no, they would not be inocent for again they do not have the authority to carry out such a judgement. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Tue 03/06/12 05:10 PM
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Turn the other cheek means this :
DO NOT RETALIATE EVIL WITH EVIL!!!! BUT...... THIS DOES NOT MEAN IT IS EVIL TO DEFEND ONESELF WHEN AN EVIL ATTACK IS COMMITED AGAINST ONESELF OR ANOTHER....IT JUST MEANS THAT ONE IS NOT TO DO SOMETHING EVIL IN RETURN AGAINST SOMEONE WITH MALICIOUS OR EVIL INTENT IN ONE'S HEART!!!!!!!!! BUT DEFENDING ONESELF OR A LOVED ONES AGAINST AN EVIL AND BRUTAL ATTACK , IS NOT CONSIDERED EVIL!!!!!! AGAIN....IT WOULD BE CONSIDERED EVIL WHEN A MALICIOUS AND BRUTAL ATTACK IS RETURNED WITH MALICIUS INTENT.... NOT JUST DONE TO DEFEND ONESELF,IN OTHER WORDS.....BUT TO ALSO CAUSE BRUTAL HARM IN RETURN !!!! IT'S THE ATTITUDE OF THE HEART THAT THE SCRIPTURE IS ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT !!!!!! Again.... what turning the other cheek means is... when a rude remark or evil word is spoken against you , for instance, you do NOT get on their level,and speak evil back. Or if slapped, you turn the other cheek...but it does NOT mean you are to allow HARM or a SAVAGE VIOLENT ATTACK of BRUTALITY to be committed against you or your loved ones...while you a just sit by and do nothing!!!!  There are Scriptures that ALSO CLEARLY TEACH , that we are to PROTECT and DEFEND OUR LOVED ONES FROM HARM'S WAY !!!!!!!! This misunderstanding of "turning the other cheek" ,is just one example of how someone will take scripture out of context ...and then make scripture say anything a person wants it to say...and sadly there are people in the world who do just this !!! And then they say they are obeying God !!! Again......turning the other cheeek , does NOT NOT NOT mean that we are to idly sit by and allow our loved one to be raped and murdered while we sit by and do nothing !!! Like the scripturs Sin_and_Sorrwow pointed out, we are to HELP DEFEND Loved Ones or anyone for that matter, when BEING VIOLENTLY ATTACKED !! Even in spiritual warfare we are to resist the enemy...and stand firm and put on our armour.....and fight the good fight of faith. But again... there are always gonna be those peope in the world, who will DISTORT scriptures like this .......and then think they are obeying God. |
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Cowboy. Turning the Other Cheek Scriptures: 1. Psalm 82:4 Rescue the weak and needy; Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked. Someone, like say a child, or your wife; is getting abused/violated by a stranger (ie this case "wicked) would be defined as "defending" and "rescuing" the weak. 2. Proverbs 24:11 Deliver those who are drawn toward death, And hold back those stumbling to the slaughter. 3. Ezekiel 33 "... 6 'But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman's hand.' See this one? The watchmen has the OBLIGATION to "take a stand" for if he does not, his own blood will be sought. If you are in the position to HELP/AID/WARN ANYONE who can/will FALL victim to the WICKEDNESS of someone else, we as HUMANS, are OBLIGATED to do so. God, in the Old Testament, he held it in the same regard: 4. Genesis 9:5-6 5 And surely your blood, the blood of your lives, will I require; At the hand of every beast will I require it. And at the hand of man, even at the hand of every man's brother, will I require the life of man. 6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: For in the image of God made he man. If a man was killed, the man or beast who caused the death must pay with his/its own life. God says here, "I will require the life of man." Killing or bloodshed was not always wrong. But when it was wrong, the penalty was ultimate. NOW AGAIN LET ME POINT OUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN: MURDER and KILL. Commandment: "Thou Shalt Not MURDER." Deut. 19:4: "...whoever kills his neighbor unintentionally, not having hated him in time past...". Unintentionally, not premeditated; but upon accident or the defense therein; NOT MURDER, thus as such it is FORGIVABLE. This verse also goes on to even give an example: "as when a man goes to the woods with his neighbor to cut timber, and his hand swings a stroke with the ax to cut down the tree, and the head slips from the handle and strikes his neighbor so that he dies". You can see perfectly here. He "killed" his neighbor but he did not "murder" for such was NOT premeditated. These verses: Ex. 21:14, Deut. 19:11, Num 35:16 Give prime examples of MURDER and NOT killing. And here we go with one last example of Self Defense: Exodus 22:2 2 "If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed." ..does it get anymore obvious? No guilt - No sin - No crime. This is the foundation for what we now consider: "Self-Defense". (Maybe not the guilt part, but its stating you need not to feel guilt, not that there is no guilt.) Booyah! Not to be rude here, but sin_and_sorrow, you've found nothing of which I request. I asked for a teaching from JESUS that was anything but passive. Yes the old testament has a lot of things that aren't passive, for we were judged by our peers in that day and age on Earth when it happened. You've posted not one teaching of JESUS that supports anything but passiveness. These things you posted have been fulfilled, completed, we are no longer to do these things which you posted. These things are things of the old covenant, which Jesus again fulfilled. Jesus and his Father. They have the same "Will". This was from God's eyes; His Word. Jesus, yes, was passive in his own right. But if they are "One", their will/their desire is as "One". Did Jesus NOT speak of how to HELP the weak? Did Jesus NOT heal the sick? His actions are the same as the Scriptures I posted. Acts against Self - Turn the other cheek. But if you are able to help those less fortunate, no matter the case. The concept remains solid. You are OBLIGATED to do so. He (Jesus) does NOT specify that the "weak" in reference are just the old and elderly; he meant ANY that are weak, ie, helpless to fend themselves. BUT since the "concept" does not work for you: Explain this: This scripture is from Jesus' own mouth: Luke 22:36: "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." If he believes to always turn the other cheek, why "demand" him to buy a "sword"? JOHN 18:23 - Read that one. Did Jesus turn the other cheek there? No, he confronted him; granted only through words, but he did not simply "turn and walk away". MATTHEW 5:39 - 39 "But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also." Do you deny Jesus' own words yet again? He speaks not of ALWAYS turning the other cheek. He suggest that IF the threat s viable against your OWN LIFE, or someone WEAKER; defend such in retaliation. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Tue 03/06/12 05:54 PM
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Question: "What did Jesus mean when He instructed us to turn the other cheek?"
Answer: The entire section of Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount in which this verse is found can be understood as one where Jesus actually serves to elevate the importance of following Israel's moral law beyond the letter to the spirit of the law. Much of the material therein complements the nature of His coming characterized by mercy, sacrificial love, and longsuffering toward sinners while at the same time affirming the "last is first" principle upon which the kingdom of God is based. For instance, we are told to go the extra mile for someone who abuses us and to pray for enemies instead of resisting them. All of this can be generally summarized by saying WE NEED TO BE PURE INSIDE AND OUT and should be as accommodating as possible for the sake of a lost world. HOWEVER...... To "turn the other cheek," does NOT IMPLY PACIFISM, NOR DOES IT MEAN WE PLACE OURSELVES OR OTHERS IN MORTAL DANGER !!! Like the principle of the eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth in Matthew 5:38, turning the other cheek refers to PERSONAL RETALIATION, NOT CRIMINAL OFFENSES OR ACTS OF MILITARY AGGRESSION. Clearly, Jesus did NOT mean to NEGATE ALL GOD'S LAWS AND INJUNCTIONS PROTECTING US AGAINST VIOLENT CRIME OR INVADING ARMIES !!! Rather, Jesus is speaking here of the PRINCIPLE OF NON-RETALIATION to AFFRONTS AGAINST our own DIGNITY, as well as lawsuits to gain Oones' personal assets (v. 40),infringements on one’s liberty (v. 41), and violations of property rights (v. 42). He was calling for a full surrender of all personal rights. Turning the other cheek means...that we are NOT TO RETURN INSULT FOR INSULT in RETALIATION, which is what most people expect and how worldly people act. Responding to hatred with Love just might grab someone's attention and afford us a chance to share the gospel. When we respond in a manner that is unnatural, it displays the supernatural power of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Jesus was the perfect example because He was silent before His accusers and did not call down revenge from heaven on those who crucified Him.
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AND JESUS WAS NOT PASSIVE !!!!!!
TO BE FULL OF LOVE, JOY ,PEACE, FORBEARANCE, GOODNESS, MERCY, FAITHFULNESS, SELF CONTROL ,PATIENCE , KINDNESS AND MEEK AND MILD OF MANNER , GENTLE OF HEART, AND LONG SUFFERING AS JESUS WAS..... DOES NOT MEAN JESUS WAS PASSIVE !!! JESUS IS ALSO KNOWN AS THE LION ..NOT JUST THE LAMB. |
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CHRISTIANITY IS NOT THE PROBLEM.
IT IS THE MISUSE AND ABUSE OF CHRISTIANITY, THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
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Cowboy. Turning the Other Cheek Scriptures: 1. Psalm 82:4 Rescue the weak and needy; Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked. Someone, like say a child, or your wife; is getting abused/violated by a stranger (ie this case "wicked) would be defined as "defending" and "rescuing" the weak. 2. Proverbs 24:11 Deliver those who are drawn toward death, And hold back those stumbling to the slaughter. 3. Ezekiel 33 "... 6 'But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman's hand.' See this one? The watchmen has the OBLIGATION to "take a stand" for if he does not, his own blood will be sought. If you are in the position to HELP/AID/WARN ANYONE who can/will FALL victim to the WICKEDNESS of someone else, we as HUMANS, are OBLIGATED to do so. God, in the Old Testament, he held it in the same regard: 4. Genesis 9:5-6 5 And surely your blood, the blood of your lives, will I require; At the hand of every beast will I require it. And at the hand of man, even at the hand of every man's brother, will I require the life of man. 6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: For in the image of God made he man. If a man was killed, the man or beast who caused the death must pay with his/its own life. God says here, "I will require the life of man." Killing or bloodshed was not always wrong. But when it was wrong, the penalty was ultimate. NOW AGAIN LET ME POINT OUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN: MURDER and KILL. Commandment: "Thou Shalt Not MURDER." Deut. 19:4: "...whoever kills his neighbor unintentionally, not having hated him in time past...". Unintentionally, not premeditated; but upon accident or the defense therein; NOT MURDER, thus as such it is FORGIVABLE. This verse also goes on to even give an example: "as when a man goes to the woods with his neighbor to cut timber, and his hand swings a stroke with the ax to cut down the tree, and the head slips from the handle and strikes his neighbor so that he dies". You can see perfectly here. He "killed" his neighbor but he did not "murder" for such was NOT premeditated. These verses: Ex. 21:14, Deut. 19:11, Num 35:16 Give prime examples of MURDER and NOT killing. And here we go with one last example of Self Defense: Exodus 22:2 2 "If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed." ..does it get anymore obvious? No guilt - No sin - No crime. This is the foundation for what we now consider: "Self-Defense". (Maybe not the guilt part, but its stating you need not to feel guilt, not that there is no guilt.) Booyah! Not to be rude here, but sin_and_sorrow, you've found nothing of which I request. I asked for a teaching from JESUS that was anything but passive. Yes the old testament has a lot of things that aren't passive, for we were judged by our peers in that day and age on Earth when it happened. You've posted not one teaching of JESUS that supports anything but passiveness. These things you posted have been fulfilled, completed, we are no longer to do these things which you posted. These things are things of the old covenant, which Jesus again fulfilled. Cowboy by your own words is your current reasoning false. You have claimed many times that Jesus WAS from the time of Adam... Therefore every phrase, line, and jot is (by your own reasoning) from Jesus... So your WERE given the teachings of Jesus (again by your own reasoning)... Yet still you argue that it is not so. If the one be true the other is also. If the one be false so also is the other. |
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Cowboy. Turning the Other Cheek Scriptures: 1. Psalm 82:4 Rescue the weak and needy; Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked. Someone, like say a child, or your wife; is getting abused/violated by a stranger (ie this case "wicked) would be defined as "defending" and "rescuing" the weak. 2. Proverbs 24:11 Deliver those who are drawn toward death, And hold back those stumbling to the slaughter. 3. Ezekiel 33 "... 6 'But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman's hand.' See this one? The watchmen has the OBLIGATION to "take a stand" for if he does not, his own blood will be sought. If you are in the position to HELP/AID/WARN ANYONE who can/will FALL victim to the WICKEDNESS of someone else, we as HUMANS, are OBLIGATED to do so. God, in the Old Testament, he held it in the same regard: 4. Genesis 9:5-6 5 And surely your blood, the blood of your lives, will I require; At the hand of every beast will I require it. And at the hand of man, even at the hand of every man's brother, will I require the life of man. 6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: For in the image of God made he man. If a man was killed, the man or beast who caused the death must pay with his/its own life. God says here, "I will require the life of man." Killing or bloodshed was not always wrong. But when it was wrong, the penalty was ultimate. NOW AGAIN LET ME POINT OUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN: MURDER and KILL. Commandment: "Thou Shalt Not MURDER." Deut. 19:4: "...whoever kills his neighbor unintentionally, not having hated him in time past...". Unintentionally, not premeditated; but upon accident or the defense therein; NOT MURDER, thus as such it is FORGIVABLE. This verse also goes on to even give an example: "as when a man goes to the woods with his neighbor to cut timber, and his hand swings a stroke with the ax to cut down the tree, and the head slips from the handle and strikes his neighbor so that he dies". You can see perfectly here. He "killed" his neighbor but he did not "murder" for such was NOT premeditated. These verses: Ex. 21:14, Deut. 19:11, Num 35:16 Give prime examples of MURDER and NOT killing. And here we go with one last example of Self Defense: Exodus 22:2 2 "If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed." ..does it get anymore obvious? No guilt - No sin - No crime. This is the foundation for what we now consider: "Self-Defense". (Maybe not the guilt part, but its stating you need not to feel guilt, not that there is no guilt.) Booyah! Not to be rude here, but sin_and_sorrow, you've found nothing of which I request. I asked for a teaching from JESUS that was anything but passive. Yes the old testament has a lot of things that aren't passive, for we were judged by our peers in that day and age on Earth when it happened. You've posted not one teaching of JESUS that supports anything but passiveness. These things you posted have been fulfilled, completed, we are no longer to do these things which you posted. These things are things of the old covenant, which Jesus again fulfilled. Cowboy by your own words is your current reasoning false. You have claimed many times that Jesus WAS from the time of Adam... Therefore every phrase, line, and jot is (by your own reasoning) from Jesus... So your WERE given the teachings of Jesus (again by your own reasoning)... Yet still you argue that it is not so. If the one be true the other is also. If the one be false so also is the other. Not exactly. Jesus was in Genesis eg., LORD God. But he was not in the form of "Jesus", he was The Word eg., LORD God. So yes Jesus was in the time of Adam, for Jesus eg., LORD God created the Earth and Heaven. |
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AND JESUS WAS NOT PASSIVE !!!!!! TO BE FULL OF LOVE, JOY ,PEACE, FORBEARANCE, GOODNESS, MERCY, FAITHFULNESS, SELF CONTROL ,PATIENCE , KINDNESS AND MEEK AND MILD OF MANNER , GENTLE OF HEART, AND LONG SUFFERING AS JESUS WAS..... DOES NOT MEAN JESUS WAS PASSIVE !!! JESUS IS ALSO KNOWN AS THE LION ..NOT JUST THE LAMB. Can you supply a verse where Jesus is condoning say self defense physically? Can you find a verse where Jesus condones physical violence for anyting? If not, then he is indeed a pacifist because that kind of verse does not exist. Jesus taught to be caring, loving, to forgive others, ect. How can you claim to have forgiven someone after beating the holy crap out of them? You can't, thus Jesus taught to be pacive. |
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By deeds and not by words can you find such.
For did not Jesus become physical in defense of his Fathers House from the Thief? Or is that not in the NT? I remember something about driving the money exchangers from the temple... Is my memory then false? Which then would you believe. the many words... or the Deed? |
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