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| Topic: Do You Have The Right To Believe | |
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Logic says: Since men (scribes) actually wrote the Bible, and men are not perfect the Bible is not infallible. God did not possess the writers of the Bible and the Bible is not a channeled work. It is claimed to be "inspired" not channeled. This means that those who wrote it put some of themselves into it. People who believe the Bible is infallible also believe the Bible is God's word. They are like someone who is in love, who cannot see the errors and imperfections of their love interest. In order to look at someone imperfect and view them as perfect, you first have to be in love with them. That is why they say that love is blind. It does not have a critical eye. All alleged imperfections are glossed over with faith. Faith is trust that the meaning, even if you do not see it, it pure. Faith tells you that any misunderstanding of that perfect thing or person is a failure on your part, not theirs. Real love in unconditional. If a person loves God unconditionally, and believes that the Bible is God's word, that person cannot see error in it. In fact to them, anyone who does see error in it is regarded as a person who does not love God unconditionally, so it is they who are in error. So who is really blind when both parties think the other is blind. Who is right and who is wrong. They are both right. I know its a paradox. .....  Now we got you defining love and the requirements of it??? This is my reality and neither you nor she tells me what I feel and believe. I'm sorry you think I was telling YOU anything about what you feel or believe. Its not about YOU. I am simply expressing MY OPINION. Is that okay with you? When you express your "opinion" about me, no it's not OK. You give yourself too much credit. I was expressing my opinion but it was certainly NOT about YOU. |
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Logic says: Since men (scribes) actually wrote the Bible, and men are not perfect the Bible is not infallible. God did not possess the writers of the Bible and the Bible is not a channeled work. It is claimed to be "inspired" not channeled. This means that those who wrote it put some of themselves into it. People who believe the Bible is infallible also believe the Bible is God's word. They are like someone who is in love, who cannot see the errors and imperfections of their love interest. In order to look at someone imperfect and view them as perfect, you first have to be in love with them. That is why they say that love is blind. It does not have a critical eye. All alleged imperfections are glossed over with faith. Faith is trust that the meaning, even if you do not see it, it pure. Faith tells you that any misunderstanding of that perfect thing or person is a failure on your part, not theirs. Real love in unconditional. If a person loves God unconditionally, and believes that the Bible is God's word, that person cannot see error in it. In fact to them, anyone who does see error in it is regarded as a person who does not love God unconditionally, so it is they who are in error. So who is really blind when both parties think the other is blind. Who is right and who is wrong. They are both right. I know its a paradox. ..... Now we got you defining love and the requirements of it??? This is my reality and neither you nor she tells me what I feel and believe. I'm sorry you think I was telling YOU anything about what you feel or believe. Its not about YOU. I am simply expressing MY OPINION. Is that okay with you? When you express your "opinion" about me, no it's not OK. You give yourself too much credit. I was expressing my opinion but it was certainly NOT about YOU. Got it... You know, people who write about unconditional love and claim they have love do not have love if they see fault in anything. Unconditional love is blind so what they are professing is just an elevated form of like. Someone with love will not criticise anyone, period. |
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I am not criticizing anyone. I am stating my opinion and my observations.
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I am not criticizing anyone. I am stating my opinion and my observations. And I wasn't talking about you, I was stating my opinions... |
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I am not criticizing anyone. I am stating my opinion and my observations. And I wasn't talking about you, I was stating my opinions... When you hit "quote" and repost what I wrote, yes, it is construed and understood that you ARE TALKING TO ME. |
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I am not criticizing anyone. I am stating my opinion and my observations. And I wasn't talking about you, I was stating my opinions... When you hit "quote" and repost what I wrote, yes, it is construed and understood that you ARE TALKING TO ME. No, that's your opinion. I responded "Got it" The rest is just your opinion about my opinion. |
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Everything is an opinion if you want to get technical. But honestly my first post was just my thoughts on the current on going conversation between you and Morningsong. I was not aiming at either her or you. It was just my take on it.
So don't be so defensive. It was not about you. Really. |
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I don't follow any "version" of the bible, I follow the scriptures, the message. I prefer KJV because it has been translated less then say the new international, ect. so Cowboy reveal which version of the bible you are using That states "Thou Shalt Not Murder" But for the enlightenment of our lovely funches, as you request. Exodus 20:13 New King James Version (NKJV) 13 “You shall not murder. why thank you Cowboy ......after searching for my request you should have been enlighten to the fact that some bibles states "Thou Shalt not Kill" and other bibles states that "Thou Shalt not Murder" why is this? because Kill and Murder means the same thing No, for the 150th time. They do NOT mean the same thing. If you really need a 70th explanation as to the difference. I've now stated it 20x. |
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Everything is an opinion if you want to get technical. But honestly my first post was just my thoughts on the current on going conversation between you and Morningsong. I was not aiming at either her or you. It was just my take on it. So don't be so defensive. It was not about you. Really. Actually, I'm not defensive. There is nothing to be defensive about. My faith is unshakable. The reason I responded is because you basically did what Morningsong did. You applied your definition to the thoughts and actions of others. In my definition of unconditional love, everything is seen and loved, flaws and all... |
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I don't follow any "version" of the bible, I follow the scriptures, the message. I prefer KJV because it has been translated less then say the new international, ect. so Cowboy reveal which version of the bible you are using That states "Thou Shalt Not Murder" But for the enlightenment of our lovely funches, as you request. Exodus 20:13 New King James Version (NKJV) 13 “You shall not murder. why thank you Cowboy ......after searching for my request you should have been enlighten to the fact that some bibles states "Thou Shalt not Kill" and other bibles states that "Thou Shalt not Murder" why is this? because Kill and Murder means the same thing No, for the 150th time. They do NOT mean the same thing. If you really need a 70th explanation as to the difference. I've now stated it 20x. Please don't feed my troll, he's on worm pills... |
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Please don't feed my troll, he's on worm pills... Sorry... Here. I'll just make it clear, concise, and BLAMO. >.> Taken from the "Theology Web". TO MURDER IS CONDEMNED IN THE BIBLE BUT NOT KILL! Is wrong from God's viewpoint to take life -Murder- without his permission or to take life against his Laws and the following material is provided to establish this point. The following comment is taken from 'Insight on the Scriptures' published by the 'Watchtower and Bible tract Society' Vol. 2 page 450 note the underlining:- "MURDER The original-language words variously rendered "kill," "murder," and "slay" refer to the taking of a life, the context or other scriptures determining whether the deliberate and unauthorized or unlawful taking of another person’s life is involved. For example, in the command, "You must not murder" (Ex 20:13), the Hebrew word for "murder" (ra·tsach') here clearly refers to deliberate and unlawful killing. But at Numbers 35:27 the same term denotes an act that an avenger of blood was authorized to carry out. Therefore, the command, "You must not murder," has to be understood within the framework of the entire Mosaic Law, which authorized the taking of human life under certain circumstances, as in the execution of criminals." We will start with the sixth of the ten commandment given by Jehovah God to Moses on Mt. Sinai in 1513 B.C.E. at Exodus 20:13 ""You must not murder."" as in The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures, but the same verse in the Kings James Version of the Bible reads slightly differently, as follows, (note the bold type) ""Thou shalt not Kill."" As can be seen in these two different translations of this Bible text one reads (note the bold type) "Murder" and the other "Kill", so one can assume that they mean the same but this is not the case as will be shown first by seeing what the Hebrew word for "Murder", "Kill" so as the see which is the accurate rendering of God's sixth command. The Hebrew word here translated in the first instance as "Murder" and in the second as "Kill" is "raw-tsakh'" and its use is no the in James Strong's Hebrew Dictionary as below:- "No. 07523 ratsach {raw-tsakh'} a primitive root; TWOT - 2208; v AV - slayer 16, murderer 14, kill 5, murder 3, slain 3, manslayer 2, killing 1, slayer + 0310 1, slayeth 1, death 1; 47 1) to murder, slay, kill 1a) (Qal) to murder, slay 1a1) premeditated 1a2) accidental 1a3) as avenger 1a4) slayer (intentional) (participle) 1b) (Niphal) to be slain 1c) (Piel) 1c1) to murder, assassinate 1c2) murderer, assassin (participle) (subst) 1d) (Pual) to be killed." Other Biblical scholars make the following comments: "Ratsach; . . . This verb occurs in one of the Ten Commandments, referring to an unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought, either expressed or implied (Ex. 20:13)."-The Complete Word Study [of the ] Old Testament by Ed. Spiros Zodhiates, Th.D. p.2367 "murder Unlawful killing was prohibited in the Ten Commandments (Exod. 20:13), for which capital punishment was prescribed (Exod. 21:12)."-Oxford Dictionary of the Bible by W.R.F. Browning p.258 "The Bible presents physical life as the creation of God; who alone has the source of life, and man has no independent right to shed blood and take life. If he dose so, he will be accountable to God for what he has done and his own life will be forfeit (Gen. 9:5-6; cf. Exod. 20:13)."-A Theological Word Book of the Bible Ed, by Alan Richardson D.D. Canon of Durham p.34 As seen it can be rendered in the Bible of "kill" or "murder" so which is correct? Why ask for the correct translation of this word? To answer this we will have a look at the meaning of "Murder" and "Kill" in the English language which will reveal the reason for drawing the distinction between these two important words in this context. Please consider the following definitions of "murder" and "kill" from various modern dictionaries, noting the underlining:- "murder [T1;1Ø] to kill unlawfully, esp on purpose: He murdered his friend in order to get the gold. He has murdered once; he may murder again. murderer [C] a person who murders someone murderess (fem)." -Longman's Lexicon of contemporary English by Tom McArthur p.3 "murder 1 the crime of killing a person unlawfully: He is guilty of murder. She loves reading murder stories. 2 [C] an occasion of murder: The police are investigating two local murders. murder fem murderess [C] a person who commits or has committed murder."-Longman's Lexicon of contemporary English by Tom McArthur p.137 "murder . . . criminal homicide"-The Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology p.597 "murder n. 1. the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another."-The Collins dictionary & Thesaurus p.656 "kill 1 [T1;1Ø] to cause (a person, plant, or animal) to die: He killed the other man in a fight."-Longman's Lexicon of contemporary English by Tom McArthur p.3 "kill . . . put to death."-The Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology p.505 In the Bible it contains a very specific warning to Christian at 1 Peter 4:15 "However, let none of YOU suffer as a murderer* or a thief or an evildoer or as a busybody in other people’s matters." *Note not a Killer. As noted above "MURDER" is to kill or take a life "unlawfully" which is different from just killing something, so being that this is in the Sixth of God's Ten Commandments or Laws it must be in connection with the taking or killing any Human being against his laws thus not condemning killing completely as the God's Law via Moses called for animal sacrifices and had capital punishment except when it brakes God's Laws; this is "Murder" even according to the modern usage of the word. The Bible give man authority to Kill as at Genesis 9:3 "Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for YOU. As in the case of green vegetation, I do give it all to YOU." thus man can Kill animals for food but with Human life this is not the case as this injunction is found at Genesis 9:6 "Anyone shedding man’s blood, by man will his own blood be shed" thus to "kill" another human being under circumstance which is disapproved of by Jehovah God is "MURDER." |
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To sum all that up:
As this will be the last time I speak on it: "Murder" is not the same as "Kill". The Bible is against "Murder". The Bible is not against "Killing". If your Bible states, "Thou Shalt Not Kill". See my references and denote: That writer doesn't know his Hebrew. |
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Logic says: Since men (scribes) actually wrote the Bible, and men are not perfect the Bible is not infallible. God did not possess the writers of the Bible and the Bible is not a channeled work. It is claimed to be "inspired" not channeled. This means that those who wrote it put some of themselves into it. People who believe the Bible is infallible also believe the Bible is God's word. They are like someone who is in love, who cannot see the errors and imperfections of their love interest. In order to look at someone imperfect and view them as perfect, you first have to be in love with them. That is why they say that love is blind. It does not have a critical eye. All alleged imperfections are glossed over with faith. Faith is trust that the meaning, even if you do not see it, it pure. Faith tells you that any misunderstanding of that perfect thing or person is a failure on your part, not theirs. Real love in unconditional. If a person loves God unconditionally, and believes that the Bible is God's word, that person cannot see error in it. In fact to them, anyone who does see error in it is regarded as a person who does not love God unconditionally, so it is they who are in error. So who is really blind when both parties think the other is blind. Who is right and who is wrong. They are both right. I know its a paradox. ..... Now we got you defining love and the requirements of it??? This is my reality and neither you nor she tells me what I feel and believe. I'm sorry you think I was telling YOU anything about what you feel or believe. Its not about YOU. I am simply expressing MY OPINION. Is that okay with you? When you express your "opinion" about me, no it's not OK. You give yourself too much credit. I was expressing my opinion but it was certainly NOT about YOU. Got it... You know, people who write about unconditional love and claim they have love do not have love if they see fault in anything. Unconditional love is blind so what they are professing is just an elevated form of like. Someone with love will not criticise anyone, period. thats not love love corrects, it doesnt just sit by idly |
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Logic says: Since men (scribes) actually wrote the Bible, and men are not perfect the Bible is not infallible. God did not possess the writers of the Bible and the Bible is not a channeled work. It is claimed to be "inspired" not channeled. This means that those who wrote it put some of themselves into it. People who believe the Bible is infallible also believe the Bible is God's word. They are like someone who is in love, who cannot see the errors and imperfections of their love interest. In order to look at someone imperfect and view them as perfect, you first have to be in love with them. That is why they say that love is blind. It does not have a critical eye. All alleged imperfections are glossed over with faith. Faith is trust that the meaning, even if you do not see it, it pure. Faith tells you that any misunderstanding of that perfect thing or person is a failure on your part, not theirs. Real love in unconditional. If a person loves God unconditionally, and believes that the Bible is God's word, that person cannot see error in it. In fact to them, anyone who does see error in it is regarded as a person who does not love God unconditionally, so it is they who are in error. So who is really blind when both parties think the other is blind. Who is right and who is wrong. They are both right. I know its a paradox. ..... Now we got you defining love and the requirements of it??? This is my reality and neither you nor she tells me what I feel and believe. I'm sorry you think I was telling YOU anything about what you feel or believe. Its not about YOU. I am simply expressing MY OPINION. Is that okay with you? When you express your "opinion" about me, no it's not OK. You give yourself too much credit. I was expressing my opinion but it was certainly NOT about YOU. Got it... You know, people who write about unconditional love and claim they have love do not have love if they see fault in anything. Unconditional love is blind so what they are professing is just an elevated form of like. Someone with love will not criticise anyone, period. thats not love love corrects, it doesnt just sit by idly |
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thats not love love corrects, it doesnt just sit by idly I know that silly. T'was just an example, for effect... |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Mon 03/05/12 06:13 PM
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Actually, Funches is referring to the overall
deeper meaning of what God's Word is actually saying. God created a perfect world..it was never God's intent for us to kill anything....even to eat...but our fallen nature allowed sin to come in....and now we kill to eat and animals also kill to eat only because of our fallen nature......but again, that was never God's will for man at all.... so therefore,I believe the deeper meaning of God's Word, is what Funches is actually referring to.... In the beginning there was no need to kill..... but in the new heaven and the new earth, we once more will live in peace with one another...where the lion will lie down with the Lamb...and there will be no more killing ...and no more night...no more darkness.....just perfect peace and God's perfect love IN the heart of all........ where the light of the world will be The SON Himself.... and we will all be living the way God intended for us to live...all along...in God's Perfect Plan... where there will be perfect Love and Peace on Earth and Goodwill towards man. God does not condone killing..God is only allowing certian things , til all things according to His Word come to pass. 
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why would there be a passage saying there is a time to kill if killing wasnt condoned?
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Mon 03/05/12 06:22 PM
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God allows killing for food, for instance.....Because
of our fallen nature.... but God never did condone killing.... |
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God only allows.....Because of our fallen nature.... but God never did condone killing.... ok, even along those lines though he never even ALLOWED murder,, which is why there is a commandment against it,,, |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Mon 03/05/12 06:57 PM
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Msharmony..I am talking about God allowing
killing....NOT talking about murder here..... Thou shalt not kill... actually means, thou shalt not murder.... but to kill in war...to kill for food is what God allows..but again..... God never actually condoned killing of ANY kind..that was NOT in His PERFECT PLAN for His creation ever... our fallen state brought this on...not God. |
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