LMAO - I have never been to NYC, but Im sure at least one of those 10 would be a yellow taxi driver

Actually - Wouldee is not saying anything about having questions. As Christians, we constantly are questioning our lives - the obstacles we face everyday, from without and within - our perceptions of truth. But his reference is about DOUBT. Claiming to be a christian and doubting the ressurection is a clear indication of a false claim. The doubt is proof to refute the claim.
Often times it is claimed that Christians have this delusional view of God, scripture, etc - yet rarely is the central focus of the life of a Christian ever referenced. That being Christ. More often than not - the believer cares little about the Old Testament - for it was only a forshadowing of that in which their faith is invested in. The account, ministry, and work of Christ on this earth. This is the cornerstone of the faith of a believer. Wouldee's reference to "Christianity not being for everyone" is not an indication of the intent of the belief - but the fact of it. Most people - when given the choice - reject Christ - hence, it's not for everybody. Christ himself said that MOST would reject him. His own people had him crucified.

Also - Christianity is not about people accepting people. It is about people accepting Jesus. Those who base their christianity on the criteria of people accepting people... Here again, an action that indicates a false claim. However - most christians would be hesitant to welcome and accept those who are openly hostile to Christ. But I don't get the sense that this is what you are refering to.

And you could very possibly be right!

Belushi, Eljay has since deleted his question posed to me (presumably because he was embarrassed.) He asked me, in reference to the biblical story of Sodom and Gomorrah, would it be permissible in my mind to simply wipe out a highly populated area because an undisclosed percentage of the folks living there may or may not be involved with criminal activity or criminal endeavors. So yes, I imagine all of the taxi cab drivers who are either of Middle Eastern descent or from some other place in the world would be fair game for the ensuing carnage....

Well they didn’t in S&G and even if they did, who is to say what would be considered righteous? Not having consensual homosexual intercourse? Does that make them worthy in some capacity in your estimation, I mean god's estimation? Besides that wasn't even the question that you had posed. We know that Lot was considered to be a righteous man by god EVEN in light of offering his two virgin daughters to be gang raped (and probably beaten to death) by an angry mob that approached him at his home. If THAT is god's prevailing standard of righteousness, well NYC better look out.

Wouldnee, you are making your replies on an "open forum" which means ANY one of us has the right to give a response, especially if the information being offered as "fact" is erroneous. If you do not want others to reply to you, perhaps you should consider sending your comments by private message off board. Thank you for your consideration.

JB made a valid point in my opinion. Many spiritualities can be considered a "way of life". I don’t think the Christians coined that phrase. Some would highly doubt it is anything of the sort. However, people have a right to believe in anything that they decide they want to. In my humble opinion, as an outsider looking in, it is not a religion I could wholeheartedly enter into without objection. I have too many unaddressed issues and concerns. I will agree with you that "churchdom" is yet another problem facing this particular faith. For some reason, the request that I pay anyone for my salvation is utterly absurd and foreign. It’s definitely a PR problem in that respect.

"Also - Christianity is not about people accepting people." Eljay

Hey, we agree on something. It’s a miracle!

For me I will say this one more time and be done with it.




If people would come on religion threads and talk about their beliefs.......WITHOUT....(This is big) saying anything at All about the Christians beliefs.....then 99.99% you would have no problems at all. But as I see it....You just can't leave your put downs of our beliefs out of it.

And Feral, let me ask you if you remember WHO exactly asked us to point out contradictions in the bible? Hmmm? It simply back fired and didn’t go quite as smoothly as he had envisioned. Is that our fault? Not to mention the Christians have been accused more often than not as the actual instigators of abuse and ill will.

Proverbs 19:11





If by ignoring the hurtful words of a brother or sister, I can heal the world a bit, shouldn't I?

I would agree Spider. That is insightful. Lets just overlook any petty insults either actual or perceived and stick to the debate. I hope no one objects. Let's just get to it already.

Which was brought on by indicating that the book was a book of fables......it wasn't a matter of backfiring are you new. And I have to disagree there....I don't call your beliefs a fable, or whatever it is you believe a myth.....so once again Kirmsa you know not what you speak.

To Eljay

The reason your wrong is that anyone can openly profess to be anything . . thus this is not solely the domain of christians, unless of course the only criteria for being a christian is to profess it. Which is exactly the response I was after . . .

________

To Feral

This thread is about the contradictions of the Bible, I would have to say it has broadened into the contradictions of Christianity, but no where in a debate does it say that you cannot question the other side, in essence such a restriction would prohibit any real debate. So as a potential debater, you have to set aside your feelings or else you cannot enter into said debate without setting yourself up to be hurt.

So it is wholly your problem that you have allowed your feelings to be hurt by people following the basic tenets of any discussion no less debate.

Not to mention I have found the greatest moments of my life to come when I allowed my beliefs to be questioned, to blindly follow is to shut yourself off. If you feel strongly in your beliefs then no amount of questioning could damage your faith. The conclusions you come to should strengthen your faith . . . Am I wrong?

They openly profess that Jesus is lord. No Christian can deny this.

BBC:

The reason your wrong is that anyone can openly profess to be anything . . thus this is not solely the domain of christians, unless of course the only criteria for being a christian is to profess it. Which is exactly the response I was after . . .

Tribo:

I think what he meant was - "only" a christian would profess that jesus was their "lord" I cannot think of anyone else having any reason to profess that from without the sect, do you?

hmmm - in saying he is their "lord" what they mean is he controls their life as much as they allow themseves, to get out of the way, so he is able to. No other cult i know of does that for their god, unless you know of some i'm not familiar with?

Yes, there are lots of reasons to call yourself something your not . . . . . lol

There are lots of people who call themselves Christians, and I would presume you would agree upon inspection of there beliefs to exclude them from your idea of Christianity.

I see it everywhere in history. I see it here in my very town. I hear it when one denomination comes to my house and tells me im going to hell for not believing in there version. ( I always like to play along lol)

Ill look for who posted the comment about a large portion of Christians go to Church but . . . I guess arnt true believers lol, or Churchians, but that was what I got from it, that they are not REAL Christians, thus the difference in "title"

Or did I read that wrong lol?


and again you say "from without the sect" What does that mean? So its as simple as saying I believe in Jesus and BAM im christian . . . IM GOING TO HEAVEN YAAAA!!!!

Because if thats true then im going to throw away my lance armstrong yellow armband and get a Jesus one TODAY!


Also Tribo about God guiding you, so how do you determine which acts are those of gods doing, and those of the person, and those of the devil? So when someone says god asked (or guided whatever floats your boat) me to murder that heathen family, or kill that homosexual man, or set that cross on fire . . . or . . . or . . or ect . . . . what third party entity was that LOL>?

OR was it their decision because it didn't fit into YOUR idea of right and wrong? In this context does God really have anything to do with with your belief?

That is the question that you should be asking yourself.

I recall the Christian’s insults towards the non-Christians being brought on out of sheer frustration. Once again, is that our fault when one of your own fundamentalists requested that we bring forth these contradictions from the bible? I think not. Shouldn't you, as a professed Christian, lavish the opportunity to put all of the so called "non-Believers" to shame? It just didn’t quite go that way as the OP had intended. That was my point. I have not been the only person on this thread to declare that the bible is simply a book of fables intended to teach or guide in some moral area. Many do not feel the scripture should be taken literally. Even a couple Christians on this thread have mirrored this concern. It is not something you should take offense to if you are indeed comfortable in your own skin and faith. If science took offense every time a fundamentalist Christian attempted to discredit their lifelong research in order that it should conform to their own belief system, where the hell would we be?

seems the only problem with any one thing demanding others be not offensive, and wrong in some pedrcieved words, makes for each speaker to become as a dictator of words allowed to be spoken, and then what become but a world of speakers each dictating what good words be, and a world full of pain emotions taking over, and being worshipped most, and the concern for what be true or more true becomes less each day............

what speaker will not soon wish silence and wrath upon each hearer that reject, so it seems the power of words to make peace have to be measured by the WANT created, not the lack of want.......

can lack of want created by words spoken be a basis used by any speaker to indicate whether itself is speaking true wisdom...........

BBC:

Yes, there are lots of reasons to call yourself something your not . . . . . lol

tribo: yep.

There are lots of people who call themselves Christians, and I would presume you would agree upon inspection of there beliefs to exclude them from your idea of Christianity.


tribo:

My idea of what Christianity is different than most.

I see it everywhere in history. I see it here in my very town. I hear it when one denomination comes to my house and tells me i'm going to hell for not believing in there version. ( I always like to play along lol)


TRIBO:

I've also done that lol. From what i gather from reading the book, originally it was those chosen by god [the apostles] that were to go into the world and spread the "good news" = gospel, to the known world at that time, this new take on going door to door is religiosity, not Christianity as it first was intended. Once the apostolic church started to be governed by man instead of by god/spirit/Christ, the whole thing went to hell, but that was neither Jesus' or gods intent, that was mans failings and greed for power and position. A quick read on the early popes will suffice the argument there on this matter. from about the 4th century AD, things really started to go down hill as far as any truths of Jesus were concerned, the book became away to rule over man and countries and kingdoms through the priestly hierarchy.



Ill look for who posted the comment about a large portion of Christians go to Church but . . . I guess arnt true believers lol, or Churchians, but that was what I got from it, that they are not REAL Christians, thus the difference in "title"

Or did I read that wrong lol?


TRIBO:

That may have been me - i stated on another post that probably 95% of those who go to church are probably not really Christians as taught by the book as to what that means.


and again you say "from without the sect" What does that mean? So its as simple as saying I believe in Jesus and BAM im christian . . . IM GOING TO HEAVEN YAAAA!!!!


TRIBO:

i concider christianity to be a sect or cult, just as any other religious or faith based belief system.




Because if thats true then im going to throw away my lance armstrong yellow armband and get a Jesus one TODAY!

tribo:
hahaha


Also Tribo about God guiding you, so how do you determine which acts are those of gods doing, and those of the person, and those of the devil? So when someone says god asked (or guided whatever floats your boat) me to murder that heathen family, or kill that homosexual man, or set that cross on fire . . . or . . . or . . or ect . . . . what third party entity was that LOL>?

tribo:

i dont believe in the devil per se', nor do i think any actions guide anyone accept those of one's own choosing. I'm an X-christian BBC, a non believer, that was once a participant full blown and have left the "faith" So in my opinion no one guides anyone else but themselves. lol



OR was it their decision because it didn't fit into YOUR idea of right and wrong? In this context does God really have anything to do with with your belief?

TRIBO:

as i said my idea of right and wrong is based on my own moral character and human make up so only those who still hang on to every word written in the book can answer that for you -



That is the question that you should be asking yourself.


Tribo:
been there - done that decades ago, the answer for me was to take the responsibility for all my actions both good or bad and not try to place or blame anyone but myself for what ever came/comes of them - just like i believe everyone should.

the 2 golden rules of both the book and in life are my guide BBC -



Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Fri 08/15/08 08:17 AM

Embarrased? Please. I presume you need work on your comprehensive reading skills.

Enough with the insults already. If you aren’t, why delete it to simply attempt to confuse the issue and take my reply out of context. Repost it then.