I declare the WINNERS of this topic...

Yea! FC!!!!!

Yea! Wouldee!!!!!

Yea! Eljay!!!!!

Yea! Spider!!!!!

You done good

I don’t see it as being over just yet. I still have more contradictions. Do all of you surrender or only spider? Not to mention that not one fundie was even willing to take a swing at tribo's mother question from genesis....I’m not sure that constitutes a win, more like a forfeiture.

well said, redy.

You understand the principle at work.

I see you have faith to believe that you can facilitate deconstruction of free discourse and prejudice motives with licentious agendas as well as anyone.

Nice flip.

How original.

At least you pay attention and know how to attempt a backlash as charmingly eloquent and highly reasonable.

Appeasement seems to hallmark your attentions.

It never ceases to amaze me that flipping a sting in the heart is accmpanied by willful dsisregard of wearing competency.

Keep working on it.

There is much to deconstruct within, before being competent enough to deconstruct without.

It is s slippery slope to be a plagerist of ingenuity found in truth.

We shall test the veracity of your antithesis in the crucible of emotional unrest, to be sure.

Too late. The winners have already been declared.

JB

Tough...I chose others...

Thank you Redy for all you contributed to the discussion. I learned a lot from your posts.

You chose your fellow fundies. How totally surprising...

No, not at all. Originally, I planned to use my knowledge of the Bible and debating to silence crys of "inconsistancies". But what I found is that I had miscalculated. Those who claim that there are inconsistancies in the Bible aren't unbiased. Every vote would have to go for the "inconsistancy" side. For instance: Christians are held to the rules of evidence, but non-Christians are given a pass. At that point I realized that no fair debate could be held without truly impartial judges.

Since I posted this thread, I have had a change of spirit. I am unmoved by those who falsely assert that the Bible has inconsistancies. I am unmoved by those who reject logic and evidence, while always demanding more evidence. I see that this thread will be fruitless as those who see Biblical Inconsistancies are incapable of seeing past their bias.

Without unbiased judges or debaters who are willing to lose, I could never win this challenge. So I will take the example of Jesus and refuse to answer questions when the answer will be rejected without being given a chance. The only thing my answers would elicit would be more name calling, insults to my intelligence and or powers of reason and those who read the answer would likely attempt to find some minor flaw in the wording of my answer and latch onto it like it's a logical flaw.

Do you think it's surprising that the non-Christians all claim the non-Christians won? How can you see one persons bias and not see your own?

Well I thought Tribo and Smiles announced a winner but I could be wrong. Besides I told you from the get go, I didn’t care about winning spider. Can you say the same about yourself? I’m sorry this didn’t go the way you planned but shouldn’t that only bolster your faith? You don’t see the scientists running and whining when the creationists try to discredit their entire life work and research now do you?

They can't...that's why I did it.

Not at all Spider. That is what Quickstepper did. She probably did not even bother to read the thread. If she had, she could never have declared any winner. You and the other Christians just gave up and quit responding.

That's an automatic forfeit.

That is, if you really care about who wins or looses.

JB

It really does not surprise me that she would try to make such a pronouncement. If it makes her feel good, hey, let her have it.

Winning? No, I don't really care. But what bother's me is people being treated unfairly. To declare winners, but those winners were exempt from certain rules...seems unfair. Don't you agree? Imagine in the Oympics, that whites were exempt from the rules on steriods, would that be fair?

But I'm not upset. I think some people learned some stuff and if nothing else, some non-Christians read in the Bible. Maybe that seed will bring forth fruit.

And on your last point...the analogy is false. You see, a scientist's discovery or belief about evolution, age of the earth, age of the universe, etc has no real bearing upon one's life. But, from the Christian perspective, accepting Jesus has a very real and lasting effect. Not just on this life but on the next. From the Christian perspective, the thought of their beliefs being insulted and belittled means that more people might reject Christianity without learning about it. I would hope you can see that within our belief system, the thought of our beliefs being rejected out of hand is very disheartening. Although Christians often fail in their approach, our hearts, our desire to deliver the word of Jesus is from the right emotion: Love.

I don't believe one could love one's fellow man if one didn't seek to give them the peace and security one had found. Christians seek to convert other's out of love, not a desire to be right. Non-Christians seek to disprove and belittle Christianity out of a need to be right, not love. Huge difference there and I realize that someone that obcessed with being right will never admit to being wrong.

I don't, but I am moved to work towards fairness. When I realized the judging would be openly biased, I bailed. Call that a forfeit if you want. I was going to lose no matter how strong my arguments were or my evidence was. Whats the point? I responded to a post that had no evidence, it simply made assertions. I demanded evidence and the "judges" determined that evidence wasn't required. Do you really think that's fair?

There were no winners, everyone lost. Some lost because the other's were declared the winners. And the so-called winners lost because they allowed their personal bias to cause them to act in ways which are unfair and against the rules of debate. The so-called "judges" posted their own arguments agianst Christianity, which is a conflict of interest.

I had put too much faith in humanities desire to be honest and fair and not enough in humanities arrogance and pride.

Funny. Now you don’t care. I said I didn’t care from the first day of this debate. Even when they declared me a winner in the Leviticus discussion, I said, fine, whatever. Let’s get onto the next topic. YOU, spider were the one that continuously whined that you had been treated unfairly. I’m not sure how exactly. You never really did explain that. I saw that Abra made the superior argument. If you doubt this in some respect, then you would have needed to do something about it right then. You never did.

As for your feeble attempt at somehow appearing as the "victim". You obviously have never been involved with any of the sciences or spent a great deal of your life engrossed in a selected field of research. You ARE DEAD WRONG in your assertion that oh, hum being a scientist has no bearing on one's life. It can become one's life and absolutely does in many cases. And then to have some religious fanatic sit there and attempt at discrediting what you have spent your entire BEING trying to develop, research, test, hypothesize and create a theory so that others might have a better understanding. Well, I’m sorry if you just don’t get it. I’m not going to sit here and explain what that feels like to you. What’s the point?

Well at least the church is not in the position to lay judgment on people who are considered non-believers or skeptical of their dogmatic practices and they are no longer able to do their "inquiries" which would most assuredly end in false conviction and declaration of heretic. They are no longer to lock scientists up in dungeons, burn women and children at the stake as witches, kill innocent animals as familiars, and otherwise create a menace of themselves in that capacity. Some of us don’t forget nearly as easily as yourself.

That is exactly why I did what I did.

It's arrogant to think people won simply because people of faith realized it was a futile effort when the biases and bickering & complaining & namecalling us was so evident.

...only in their vain imaginations do they win. That's sad...

YOU were the one calling us VIPERS, HEATHENS, PHONIES; the list goes on...quickstop. It was disgraceful.

Unfortunately, you misunderstood my post. If I believe the world is 6,000 years old and you believe the world is 4.5 billion years old and another believes that the world is completely ageless, it doesn't matter. At least in my case, how old I believe the world to be doesn't effect my day to day life. I go to work, love my family, eat, sleep, bath. No scientist believes that if you don't believe the earth to be 4.5 billion years old, you will not inherit heaven. But Christians do believe that those who accept Jesus will inherit heaven. The distinction I'm trying to make is that for 99% of people, believing in evolution or the Big Bang will have no significant impact upon their lives. Most scientists could not believe in Evolution or Big Bang and still complete their work without any problems, right? Those beliefs only really effect the life of those who study evolution and the Big Bang.

I encourage you to slow down a bit and not be so focused on finding insults in other's statements. The meaning of words on a computer screen are too easily distorted by our own expectation of what another believes.

HOLEY COW - (sorry wrong religion) There are no winners in a debate of this kind. The very most we can ever expect from this kind of discussion is that some will walk away with more information than they had at the start.

I was simply doing (OPENLY) what some others have done with regards to the many other threads in which those in opposition to the fundamentalist got tired of talking to a wall. In most of those cases the religionists still claim today, that they have never been proven wrong.

And they never will, because they will not see beyond what they believe.

So all anyone can do is share what they believe. And those with questions may ask, but if the question pushes the limits of a person's belief structure, the question will not be answered logically.

That is what we have all learned here, so far. That is what I have been seeing for several years, so far.