i know those things hurt like hell, i dont know who got the idea to stick those things in our eyes - sick puppies they were - ouucchh!!!

HMMM???

in reading Genesis i saw this:

chpt223-24

23: And Adam >>>the first man correct?<<< said "this is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh, she shall be called woman >>>the first woman correct?<<< because she was taken out of man.

And then this statement:

24: "therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother and shall cleave unto his wife and they shall be one flesh'

Question?

since Adam and eve had no >>mother<< and only god was there father/creator - why would he be stating this if there were no earthly fathers and mothers at that time? How would he even know to call a mother a mother at that point? And why would he set up a precedent of the man leaving a "mother" to live with the wife/woman if there were no "mothers" yet? Where would he even get such a precedent or idea from?

In my opinion only from later traditional thoughts or ceremony "AFTER" Adam would have lived. This is a Hebrew thought or ceremony >>long after Adam lived<< - how else could he have known to say this statement? In fact it flies in the face of what he could know, since he knew of no "mother" - nor could "he" actually even possibly >>>>do as he stated<<<< he could not have >>>>left his "mother"<<<< HE >>>HAD NONE!!!!!<<< - This is not only a contradiction it's a bald face attemt to make readers think that this is what Adam said at the time.

This is a perfect example of >>"man"<< writing >>>"after the fact"<<< and adding his own thoughts and holdings into the mix.

If I'm wrong then please show me where and how. thnx

Well the people who wrote the Bible had no idea humans would be still be reading it 2000 years later, and asking stupid questions like that. (No offense) So they did not dot all their i's and cross all their t's and they did not write it with the idea that people would eventually learn to think and question their word, and they figured that if anyone did, they would just kill anyone who did.
JB

JB.

are you bored?

or do you like walking around with a target on your forehead?

brat.

(Brat sticks out her tongue)

Na Na na na Na!

That is What they did. Anyone who would not go along with the fabrication that Jesus was God, were killed.

JB

ssshhhhh

they don"t get it

Good question Tribo. Anyone? My guess is because of course there had always been a concept of mothers. Human females gave birth as well as all females of the species. What do you think the pagans believed for thousands of years prior to the advent of Christianity? The evidence reaches back to the Neolithic in fact. They had to work within the confines of what already existed and what people were acustomed to. They also were forced to manipulate and distort the dominant belief structure which would have already been in place.

The Hebrew Goddess is a 1967 book by Jewish historian and anthropologist Raphael Patai. In this book, Patai argues that the Jewish religion historically had elements of polytheism, especially the worship of goddesses and a cult of the mother goddess. The book supports the theory through the interpretation of archaeological and textual sources as evidence for veneration of feminine beings. Hebrew "goddesses" identified in the book include Asherah, Anath, Astarte, Ashima, the cherubim in Solomon's Temple, the Matronit (Shekhina), and the personified Shabbat Bride. The later editions of the book were expanded to include recent archaeological discoveries and the rituals of unification (Yichudim) which are to unite God with his Shekinah.

If you trace the historical roots of ANY one of these earlier civilizations, you can discover the sources of their religious beliefs. Even the Hebrews for goodness sake.

THNX K, you may be right, but
i'm talking within the context of the book which is supposed to be stating that which was first created? "IF" [within the writings] Adam and Eve are the "FIRST" man and woman, then this saying in verse 24 makes no sense at all.

No "mother" existed then for adam to even make such a pronouncement, correct? So how would either the jewish or the christian religions explain this from within the book itself as something adam would say in the garden? where would this concept have came from?

Evidentally not from god - for god had just made eve when this was said by adam? The way in which it was stated gives no hint that god instructed adam that this would be the case, correct? it's like he just blurts it out of nowhere and if read carefully, it really fits nothing being talked about in the reast of whats said in the context?

It's like it was just "thrown" in the mix for a purpose unknown but for to make the statement??

I can see no reason for it other than a comment from jewish tradition to make that point for what ever reasons they had. It just don't fit the rest of the dialog being spoken IMO>

Right it doesn't fit at all. I just had one theory that could offer a plausible explanation for why they would still have a concept of "mother".

Okay let's go slower and why do they use the term mother at all? There is no mother right? God created these first two humans (although we don’t really know which one came first as that’s another contradiction). So why then, if we put all of this other evidence aside for the moment that points to the existence of a Goddess/Earth based religion which pre-dated Christianity. Why do they refer to "mother" at all? Isn’t a boy god the mother of all now?

K, i'm trying to keep it within the bounds of the book and hebrew and christian thought of the literal future fundies on here, i know all that your saying or stating - but it must be looked at with in the beliefs of those held on here to answer it - not with maybes or possablies, or could have been's - but "scripture answering scripture" - this is really what this debate was supposed to be all about to begin with - pagans asking questions to the FF's or to show "mistakes in the book.

Alright, as a courtesy to you Tribo, I will stay out of it and let the fundies answer this question utilizing the bible solely without any interjection of the physical and cultural anthropological and archeological evidence that lies outside of the 6000 year old cut off.

Your more than welcome to join in K, anything you have to say is rewarding, but in this case as to time-lines it doesn't apply - only how did this concept arise of what is stated in the "book"? -

this also applies to other statements to, but i will see if this one gets answered first before continuing on.

The Bible authors left out some of the good parts. I will fill them in for you Tribo.

And low and behold, Adam saw that the birds were mating and raising chicks and that the deer frolicked and chased and mounted one another and the bears in the forest did much more than just poop in the woods, and he saw that they knew each other in intimate ways and had offspring.

And he called the one who bore the offspring "Mother."

And it came to pass that Adam spake unto the Lord and said, "Lord why doth every other creature get booty calls and I do not?"

And the lord said, "They are procreating their species as you must do. Have you not noticed the woman I created from your rib?"

And Adam said,
"Oh! I thought she was just here to fetch my fruit from the trees and tend the garden."

And so Adam went unto Eve and he said he wanted more than just the fruit from the tree, and he told her that the Lord had ordered him to procreate.

And she asked him what that was and he told her that he was not sure.

Then Satan entered into the garden and he showed them both what they were to do. Adam watched Satan as he came to know Eve in the way that the bears had known each other. Then Satan said, "Eve will be the mother to my children."

And Adam realized they had sinned and that Eve was supposed to be the mother of his children, not Satan's. So he too came to know Eve and he thought, now Eve will be the mother to my children.

But Eve had twins and one was the son of Satan, and one was the son of Adam.

And the Lord was not pleased at all and threw them all out of the garden, because the Lord did not know which son was of Adam and which son was of Satan because they did not have DNA paternity tests back then.

JB

Krimsa.

the world is mother.

it is the womb through which we must be eternally ejected from.


PUSH!!!!!!!!!





ps. I come and go, irregularly.

That’s pretty close to what the pagans believe wouldee. Careful, you mustn’t confuse anyone with that talk. It makes you appear religiously ambiguous.

Seriously though, didn’t anyone want to answer Tribo? I promised to keep myself out of it.

apparently not.

perhaps the ones he is looking for answers from do not actually exist.

You mean you aren’t going to argue? Is it snowing in hell today? I missed the weather report this morning.

well, much to your chagrin, the party I was at is over.

the guests have long since left the party.

I cleaned up after it by myself.



this party is spider's.

when he awakens once again, perhaps he will entertain your attentions with answers to your other questions.



I don't argue for argument's sake, Krimsa.

there has to be a point visible to from the beginning of a discussion that holds some merit to warrant my attention.

I am not prepared to endure endless questions from anyone concerning the meaning of words used in specific passages in the scriptures.

I did my personal study of the scriptures for myself and still do.I haven't tired of it yet these many years later since I started doing so.


That habit does not save me, and does not change my beliefs.

Nor did that habit lead to my salvation and beliefs, much to the dismay of any that may think so.

I lend a hand here and there for sincere questions, but I am not replacement therapy for personal investigation into anything scriptural.

One must be led by that which is coming from a more personal inspiration to do so.

I am of a mind to respect that which I do myself.

It would become a tedium to do that for others without a heart for it being done with the same enthusiastic vigor as is attached to subsequent questions from a heart seeking things according to a different method and with a different intent for which my focus wanes miserably.

It is one of my many unique quirks.

I hope you don't mind.

What?

Okay is that a no?