I cannot believe you can say this with a straight face.

So here is what I am saying you claim that if "god asked" you give up all your wealth you would. Well he does just that over and over again in the Bible. You however come in following all the rules but having a sower face because this is the one you cannot and will not give up.

If I was to take your reading of the "camel needle" it would still mean that Jesus is saying that it will take a some huge effort on the part of God to get just 1 rich man into heaven.

Your last sentence I piece I can't make sence of. I can just say that Jesus makes it clear that he is telling them they are blessed because they left all those things behind. He judged there faith by their actions.

If you feel you can go around and do anything you want regardless of what Jesus states I think you are mis-reading the Bible.

1 Cor 13:13-14:1
3 And now abide faith , hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.


NKJV


James 1:6-8
6 But let him ask in faith , with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.
NKJV


James 2:1-13

My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Master Yahshua our Messiah, the Soveriegn of glory, with partiality. 2 For if there should come into your assembly a man with gold rings, in fine apparel, and there should also come in a poor man in filthy clothes, 3 and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say to him, "You sit here in a good place," and say to the poor man, "You stand there," or, "Sit here at my footstool," 4 have you not shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?

5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has Yahweh not chosen the POOR of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you and drag you into the courts? 7 Do they not blaspheme that noble name by which you are called?

8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
NKJV



James 2:14-24

What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has FAITH but does not have WORKS? Can FAITH SAVE him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have WORKS, is dead.

18 But someone will say, "You have faith , and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my FAITH BY MY WORKS. 19 You believe that there is one Elohim.( 1 not 3 ) You do well. Even the demons believe — and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, AND BY WORKS FAITH WAS MADE PERFECT? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed Yahweh, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of Yahweh. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and NOT by faith only.
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Matt 6:19-24

"Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

22 The Lamp of the Body

(Luke 11:34-36)

"The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

24 You Cannot Serve God and Riches


"No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve Elohim and mammon.
NKJV


Yahshua definately tells us how to live our lives..


Matt 6:25-7:1

"Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature?

28 "So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; 29 and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 Now if Yahweh so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?

31 "Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32 For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 But seek first the kingdom of Yahweh and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.


NKJV


Matt 5:46-6:1
6 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect , just as your Father in heaven is perfect .


NKJV


Faith alone battle cry is a lie. Perputrated by Martin Luther who also was Hitlers cry with the Book he wrote The LIE. Calling on the govt. to exterminate the Jews. Hitler believed martin Luther. The church calls him the first reformer from the Catholic church. Another Lie.. The Poor Men of Lyons were the !st but they went back to the continuity of the scriptures calling upon the whole book as the scriptues as a whole equal with out any flaws. They were massacred for this.

If you believe faith will save you then you have believed a lie. Even the great white throne judgement judges by thier works.

Satans work is alive and well. Open your eyes and trust what the scriptures say and not what tradition has embedded in your mind. Then The light of the scriptures will open up..Miles

If I was to take your reading of the "camel needle" it would still mean that Jesus is saying that it will take a some huge effort on the part of God to get just 1 rich man into heaven.






mmmmmmm...seems you have changed "your" stance on this one?????

I said if I went with hers. I do not believe he is just being clever. I think Jesus is being very clear.

what strikes me most about this and similar debates is the whole "Jesus said"...stop and think..Jesus left nothing written..there is no "book of Jesus", everything he supposedly said is all second hand-account. Those of you who so believe you're quoting Jesus' words should consider this fact...also that bible that you so cleverly use as a weapon is the King James VERSION more second hand news....

CAMEL

CAMEL


kamelos (
<START GREEK>ka/mhlo$
<END GREEK>, NT:2574), from a Hebrew word signifying "a bearer, carrier," is used in proverbs to indicate (a) "something almost or altogether impossible," Matt 19:24, and parallel passages, (b) "the acts of a person who is careful not to sin in trivial details, but pays no heed to more important matters," Matt 23:24.
(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers.)

The camel reference meaning is here

WOW

God doesn't care if your rich. Look at Solomon, he had all the wealth of the world (at the time) and was favored by God. Why, because he ruled with wisdom, charity, and feared the living God.

The basic concept of the entire bible is one simple thing. All things in moderation, take no more than you need. It's pretty simple stuff really. Why do people always have to take the book so damn literally? It is a collection of ancient oral traditions, written in hebrew, translated to greek, then latin, and finally english. I'm sure misinterpretations and errors were made, it was written by humans, not God. Can you tell the same story exactly the same twice?

Don't just read the words, ask yourself what is the message. In this particular case: give your excess to those who need it, and follow God's teaching. Not rocket science, but still pretty good.

The scriptures were written as they were given commandment. Those who say that the OT was done away at Yahshua's death. Yes then the scriptures can be torn apart. Make it 1 book and i can show you things that speak directly to how religions of today would be worshipping. Claiming this is the only way to know you have to recieve the Holy Spirit. If you want to believe it is just a book written by man then I would throw it out with the trash because that is all it really is to you

One example people falling backwards.. sound familiar. completely against the scriptures

Look in the mirror.....yea face is totally straight...not even a smile. I would totally give everything he asked.....Yes Yes Yes.....The whole point of it is to not put credence in wordly things....because do you take it with you silly wabbit? Nope.....So kind of a mudane thing to say, "Those with the most toys wins" Because in reality those that Love the Lord about and beyond all of it....and who's faith is unwavering are the true winners.

And get something rabbit it has nothing to do with the wealth as much as it does the priority. If people make money their God.....well thats all well and good....but you ain't going to heaven.

Jesus says you are blessed if you understand where to put and how to deal with your worldly stuff....money, toys, etc. He gives me many many blessings including money...but I in turn give it back...not because it's expected of me....but because I want to.

I like you way you said this.....right on right on.

God I love anyone who has a thinking brain!!!

Solom did not ask for riches. He asked for wisdom. Yahweh saw that he had his heart in the right place and would rule rightous judgement and granted him riches. He never asked for it.Miles

This is why the song, Hallelujah, I'm a Bum! is set to the tune of "Revive us again," YZ.

Rabbit.

You miss the point.

you draw parallels that are not relevant and I merely offered an opposit to your paralle to get your mind off of your minutia and back on the issue.

You want to understand the Lord's position on these carnal needs and forsake the eternal benefit to your soul altogether by trivializing the message to one of works and not one of faith.

If you have no confidence to enter into the covenant jesus offers, then you have no confidence in comprehending the lesser minutia that surrounds the the victory in Christ.

You can never overcome the world by measurung it in your terms.

You can overcome all things throiught Jesus Christ who strengthens you.

The Holy Spirit is tghe source of that strength.

If you choose, as you have numerous toimes suggested for yoursel, to live by your good deeds , then by all means do so.

But works and faith are two different things

By works, you must fuylfill the law and earn your righteousness.

By faith in Christ, through faith, by the grace of God, you may receive the Holy Spirit which is your eanest downpayment on things to come, not to mention, that the Holy Spirit teaches you all truth and according to all that Jesus said. Jesus is theliving Word of God, and that includes every THUS SAITH THE LORD of the Old Testament.

But if you will not surrender all in your heart, God knows and will not enter in. You are witholding from your heart with a false invitation.

Faith is translated confidence. Exercise some to come in.

Surrendering yourself is not fi=orsaking yourself, it is giving God your complete trust.

If you don't trust God to anoint you how can he anoint you?


Gotta go...pressing business.

You get the drift?

In the early church, some people actually did give up all their wealth and share it with the rest of the believers. Today, to do this, you'd have to join the salvation Army or some such.

Much of our wealth can go toward helping the church or the poor and such, there's always causes we can get involved with. You just take it day by day and step by step. Local missions are good to lend support to, as are the Gideons and your friendly local neighborhood church.

this was an interesting thread, I left earlier and came back. It makes my heart happy to see there is still passion about filtering through the details to find our own understanding of what and how God wants us to be. Peace and Love, your friendly neighborhood fisher, jeffish

what does have to do the teachings in the Bible about giving to the poor, and the monetary aid given by the US to poor countries?

Listen to her, Rabbit.

A young woman of God with the simple clarity to show the depth of the heart of God in a way that is not intellectually inept.