humanity would be hurting, art wouldn't exist. I think it would be strange not to recognize anyone or anything for every magical breath, and every thought, it's only logical to seek these things on our own, then die without it, we'll see in the hour of our death.

Are their any fellow Gnostic Christians here?

being freed from these illusions of darkness so that they can perceive Reality

The Escapist theology of the 'Left Behinder's' in NOT Biblically based.

It's on the same par as the FEW Muslims who believe they are going to get all those virgins by blowing themselves and others up.

The term 'Christian' was not even coined until the days of Paul, about 3 decades after Jesus walked the earth a man.

Jesus was NEVER a Christian!

Jesus was a social, justice, radical revolutionary Palestinian devout Jewish road warrior who rose up and challenged the job security of the Temple authorities by teaching the people they did NOT need to pay the priests for ritual baths or sacrificing livestock to be OK with God; for God already LOVED them just as they were:

Sinners, poor, diseased, outcasts, widows, orphans, refugees and prisoners all living under Roman Military Occupation.

What got Jesus crucified was disturbing the status quo of the Roman Occupying Forces of his time, by teaching the subversive concept that Caesar only had power because God allowed it and that God preferred the humble sinner, the poor, diseased, outcasts, widows, orphans, refugees and prisoners all living under Roman Occupation above the elite and arrogant.

The early followers and lovers of Jesus were called members of THE WAY-being THE WAY he taught one should be; Nonviolent, a Peacemaker and one who did the will of the Father .

"What does God require? He has told you o'man! Be just, be merciful, and walk humbly with your Lord." -Micah 6:8

Jesus remained NONVIOLENT and forgiving even while being mocked, whipped and nailed to a cross and he promised that it is the Peacemakers who are the children of God, not the peace-talkers and NOT those who bomb, torture or occupy others.

2,000 years ago The Cross had NO symbolic religious meaning.

When Jesus said: "Pick up your cross and follow me."

He was issuing a POLITICAL statement, for the main roads in Jerusalem were lined with crucified agitators, rebels, dissidents and any others who disturbed the status quo of the Roman Occupying Forces.

A lot of what passes for Christianity in the USA is an abomination.

"The soul who sins is the one who will die."
Eze 18:4

Don't know how you're getting around that one either. That is an absolute.

I think it would depend on what he looked like.

If he looked like an angry giant on a throne, I'd probably try to stay out of sight.

If he looked like my bartender, I'd probably order a drink.

If he looked like a homeless person, I might give him a quarter.

True Christianity is not about brainwashing....

but about accepting and beleiving on the Lord Jesus Christ....by Faith.

And that decision must be made WILLINGLY.........and MUST come from the HEART....ONLY...
in order to be truly born again...
NOT from the Head.

If someone makes a decision to follow Christ ....
but makes the decision because someone else is telling him/her to.....then that decison only comes from the head...and NOT from the HEART.. ..and all that person will have found is DEAD RELIGION...disguised as Chrsitianity... and nothing else!!!

And that person will either probably eventually get bored and leave ...cause there was no heart change....made willingly from the heart....

or ....

that person will stay stuck in dead religiousity...thinking that is what christianity is all about.

But there will be no fruits evident in that person't life..casue nothing has changed.
Just dead religiosity flowing from his/her life.

And satan loves to see this happen to people.....and laughs....

but let him laugh...
cause
God is still on the throne...
and
the VICTORY has already been WON...
by what
JESUS did on that cross...
and
the devil has already lost....

he just doesn't know it yet.

Im not feeling really inspired today so I stole this from another thread.

"The men of Israel wandered around the desert for 40 years...
even in biblical times, they wouldn't ask for directions."

Discussion of the topic of religion, more than any other topic, enlightens me about how willfully and stubbornly stupid some people can and are quite proud to be...

At great lengths, the effort is made to put the fear of hell into children when they have not yet developed critical thinking skills and will believe anything mummy, daddy and grown-ups say. By the time they grow up to develop and employ critical thinking skills to every other facet of life (hopefully) they fear a hell and are brainwashed from a young age so skillfully to crave a heaven that they put up that mental block between they're normal intelligent thought process and religion. Even questioning it is frowned upon as not "having faith" as is the self-preservationist clause inherent in it.
Such people are past the ability to look at religion reasonably and will always fear questioning something they grew up being taught and what they're parents grew up being taught etc etc. To think "just because some thing has always been thought to be true, does it make it true?" is a hell sentence to some.
I am not interested in debating such people who can not and who will not think for themselves and are willfully and stubbornly ignorant.

Saying that the bible teaches us to fix ourselves does not imply that all humans are flawed. Nor does the quote imply that the bible says we are flawed. The quote only states that the original speakers mother interpereted the use of the bible in that manner.

I think the point of the quote is to say that we should only use the bible to better ourselves, and to learn to accept others for who they are. If we are setting any other agenda, besides personal enlightenment, then we are misusing the bible and twisting it's intent.

As that applies to the OP, it doesn't matter if the text is taken in a literal translation or not, only how the reader uses the information that is absorbed.

There is a good message in the bible, whether you want to believe the story of it's gods or not. There are hundreds of tales, parables, and analogies that tell of charity, kindness and goodwill and how we should take those qualities and teach them to the word.

But the idea was lost and replaced with dogmas and creeds. The church was built of stone and it is unyeilding, and it teaches it's subjects to be the same. That's why it's so easy to get christians riled up in the chat rooms.

I am kinda wondering why we are called by some scientists...

Decendants.

I allways thought that it was our responsibility to put the next generation up on our shoulders so they could see farther... Go farther... Climb higher... and do more.

That would make us ascendents... Would it not?

Or is the human race falling not climbing?

I think not.

Else why leave us here.

I've been good. I've been transitioning the majority of my time from one my jobs to another, you know how change can disrupt a life. Other than that I'm good. Of course God never has seen to throw anything at me I couldn't eventually deal with. I've also noticed that if I look at a longer view, He's always making things turn out for the better.

Did I miss any good arguements? Surely someone said something to really get some good stuff flowing in here. I heard a good quote the other day, I guess it fits well in this room.

"My mother taught us that the Bible is used to teach us how to fix ourselves and be good to others. Short of that, we should use it sparingly or we will destort it's meaning." I don't even remember where I heard it, I just remember thinking "Wow, that's probably right."

I rest my case....no God heart leads to "HELL." That's what a world without God would be...HELL.

Right but that would be off topic wouldn't it . . . . . The post he was responding to was not about people, but about god

Is it really important?

Or will it (has it) taken away from the truth of the message?

Is what was (possibly) worn by a person as important (in this time) as the words spoken by that person.

Much ado about nothing (imho).

Duh?

Never did this poster suggest asking an invisible "sky daddy" for help. What was said was more about humans in relation with other humans.

I hear ya. I was having fun till Redy smashed me flat and then eloped with Abra to shamanland!

Sure I break my leg im going to ask for help from another person, perhaps someone that has a track record for helping.

Duh.

Am I going to ask an invisible sky daddy how I should think about killing to survive?

I assume you eat meat? Does god say its ok to kill to survive?
My Values do not . . . .

i've seen that to during the hurricanes in fla. people do come together, unfortunately when things get back to "normal" it soon goes away - does that mean we can only come together in a meaningful way if we stay in a state of emergency? let's hope not, but it seems to be true.

right doe eyes, i know i try to be as self sufficient as i can - but also know that sufficiency is still dependent on others to what ever degree i might need at any given time.

I know there are cases or circumstances [especially in the past] where man had no choice but to be as self sufficient as possible, of course thats why life spans were much shorter also. you can't be all things you need at all times unto yourself. To me, sufficency or dependency for now is somewhat dependant on others. though i do feel for those who don't know how to grow and raise food and their own animals or sew or or maintain their equipment or other things not that long ago everyone just knew. how many could can their own food if necessary, or perserve their meats, or even cook decently, etc.. with this recession it got me to wonder how young people would cope if things got really bad like in the 20's and 30's??

Weakness comes by way of being non self suffecient. When you look 2 something else for "strength" or self worth.