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Topic: Do You Have The Right To Believe
Peter_Pan69 Joined Sun 08/23/09 Posts: 2781	Mon 03/05/12 09:50 AM
Peter_Pan...if you are going to claim that Man lied pertaining to the bible/torah...then that would mean that nothing in those scriptures can be trusted .... perhaps God was actually the fallen angel and Satan was actually the creator but the authors lied and claim that Satan was the angel and God the creator this is why a believer should not be claiming that the bible has errors or depection within it...a believer is supposed to have Faith that God would not allow such teachery and debauchery I have faith, just not in people such as yourself... Get upto speed, I said the gopher had put sugar on his popcorn. Sheesh!

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Mon 03/05/12 10:33 AM
Logic says: Since men (scribes) actually wrote the Bible, and men are not perfect the Bible is not infallible. God did not possess the writers of the Bible and the Bible is not a channeled work. It is claimed to be "inspired" not channeled. This means that those who wrote it put some of themselves into it. People who believe the Bible is infallible also believe the Bible is God's word. They are like someone who is in love, who cannot see the errors and imperfections of their love interest. In order to look at someone imperfect and view them as perfect, you first have to be in love with them. That is why they say that love is blind. It does not have a critical eye. All alleged imperfections are glossed over with faith. Faith is trust that the meaning, even if you do not see it, it pure. Faith tells you that any misunderstanding of that perfect thing or person is a failure on your part, not theirs. Real love in unconditional. If a person loves God unconditionally, and believes that the Bible is God's word, that person cannot see error in it. In fact to them, anyone who does see error in it is regarded as a person who does not love God unconditionally, so it is they who are in error. So who is really blind when both parties think the other is blind. Who is right and who is wrong. They are both right. I know its a paradox. ..... Now we got you defining love and the requirements of it??? This is my reality and neither you nor she tells me what I feel and believe. I'm sorry you think I was telling YOU anything about what you feel or believe. Its not about YOU. I am simply expressing MY OPINION. Is that okay with you?

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Mon 03/05/12 10:36 AM
Peter_Pan...if you are going to claim that Man lied pertaining to the bible/torah...then that would mean that nothing in those scriptures can be trusted .... perhaps God was actually the fallen angel and Satan was actually the creator but the authors lied and claim that Satan was the angel and God the creator this is why a believer should not be claiming that the bible has errors or depection within it...a believer is supposed to have Faith that God would not allow such teachery and debauchery I have faith, just not in people such as yourself... Get upto speed, I said the gopher had put sugar on his popcorn. Sheesh! and making statements like that, perhaps you should get off the speed

chocolina Joined Tue 12/07/10 Posts: 183	Mon 03/05/12 11:37 AM
msharmony said: relevance? explain how someone can steal without taking but taking is not a crime and STEALING is If I take the camera out of my desk, that is not illegal if I take YOUR camera, without your permission, that is illegal and called 'stealing' Chocolina said: Till here you didn't explain " how someone can steal without taking" You explain the difference between 'take' and 'steal' Now pls one more try ... How someone can steal without to take it ? msharmony said: you can kill without murdering,, just as you can take without stealing Here I'm lost in your logic twist Msharmony

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Mon 03/05/12 12:10 PM
msharmony said: relevance? explain how someone can steal without taking but taking is not a crime and STEALING is If I take the camera out of my desk, that is not illegal if I take YOUR camera, without your permission, that is illegal and called 'stealing' Chocolina said: Till here you didn't explain " how someone can steal without taking" You explain the difference between 'take' and 'steal' Now pls one more try ... How someone can steal without to take it ? msharmony said: you can kill without murdering,, just as you can take without stealing Here I'm lost in your logic twist Msharmony It is true, you can "kill" without murdering. But you can only take without stealing if what you're taking is your own. Reason you can kill without murdering is because you can kill a cow for dinner. It's only "murder" when it's illegal. The taking of one's life is murder in both man's law and God's law. But also have to keep in mind the time span something is written. In those days our language wasn't as complicated then as it is now.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Mon 03/05/12 12:22 PM
Reason you can kill without murdering is because you can kill a cow for dinner. good thing that Cow can't talk ..because it would probably swear up and down that you are trying to murder it also God probably was thinking about humans and not Cows when he lightning bolted that commandment to Moses also since you claim that you follow the KJV of the bible it's states "Thou Shalt Not Kill"

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Mon 03/05/12 12:34 PM
Reason you can kill without murdering is because you can kill a cow for dinner. good thing that Cow can't talk ..because it would probably swear up and down that you are trying to murder it also God probably was thinking about humans and not Cows when he lightning bolted that commandment to Moses also since you claim that you follow the KJV of the bible it's states "Thou Shalt Not Kill" I don't follow any "version" of the bible, I follow the scriptures, the message. I prefer KJV because it has been translated less then say the new international, ect. And that is the reasoning of the animals, they are here to serve us eg., God gave us dominion of the bests of this Earth. Genesis 1:26 26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Mon 03/05/12 12:46 PM
I don't follow any "version" of the bible, I follow the scriptures, the message. I prefer KJV because it has been translated less then say the new international, ect. so Cowboy reveal which version of the bible you are using That states "Thou Shalt Not Murder"

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Mon 03/05/12 12:57 PM
msharmony said: relevance? explain how someone can steal without taking but taking is not a crime and STEALING is If I take the camera out of my desk, that is not illegal if I take YOUR camera, without your permission, that is illegal and called 'stealing' Chocolina said: Till here you didn't explain " how someone can steal without taking" You explain the difference between 'take' and 'steal' Now pls one more try ... How someone can steal without to take it ? msharmony said: you can kill without murdering,, just as you can take without stealing Here I'm lost in your logic twist Msharmony It is true, you can "kill" without murdering. But you can only take without stealing if what you're taking is your own. Reason you can kill without murdering is because you can kill a cow for dinner. It's only "murder" when it's illegal. The taking of one's life is murder in both man's law and God's law. But also have to keep in mind the time span something is written. In those days our language wasn't as complicated then as it is now. not true, I can also take something down that isnt mine if its on my property I can also take something from someone if they have given me permission neither is the same as stealing the bible mentions both killing and murder and they dont use them in the same context because one is against the law and one is not,,, as in 'a time to kill' as opposed to 'thou shalt not MURDER'

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Mon 03/05/12 12:58 PM
I don't follow any "version" of the bible, I follow the scriptures, the message. I prefer KJV because it has been translated less then say the new international, ect. so Cowboy reveal which version of the bible you are using That states "Thou Shalt Not Murder" Have I posted a verse that says thou shalt not murder? No, I have not. Again, the time's have changed dramatically in language. Doesn't matter if it says kill or murder. For there was no difference at that time. The ONLY difference between killing and murder is in our sociaty now. "Murder" is the unlawful taking of a life. There is no "legal" form of killing when it comes to God. For he is our only judge. Just because someome raped or murdered your family, doesn't give you the right to punish them with death. Killing is killing, bottom line. Doesn't matter if it's "legal" or "illegal" according to our sociaty.

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Mon 03/05/12 01:02 PM
msharmony said: relevance? explain how someone can steal without taking but taking is not a crime and STEALING is If I take the camera out of my desk, that is not illegal if I take YOUR camera, without your permission, that is illegal and called 'stealing' Chocolina said: Till here you didn't explain " how someone can steal without taking" You explain the difference between 'take' and 'steal' Now pls one more try ... How someone can steal without to take it ? msharmony said: you can kill without murdering,, just as you can take without stealing Here I'm lost in your logic twist Msharmony my logic is this because an apple is a fruit, does not make all fruits an apple because to steal one must take, does not make all taking stealing because to murder one must kill, does not make all killing murder etc,,,,,

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Mon 03/05/12 01:05 PM
msharmony said: relevance? explain how someone can steal without taking but taking is not a crime and STEALING is If I take the camera out of my desk, that is not illegal if I take YOUR camera, without your permission, that is illegal and called 'stealing' Chocolina said: Till here you didn't explain " how someone can steal without taking" You explain the difference between 'take' and 'steal' Now pls one more try ... How someone can steal without to take it ? msharmony said: you can kill without murdering,, just as you can take without stealing Here I'm lost in your logic twist Msharmony It is true, you can "kill" without murdering. But you can only take without stealing if what you're taking is your own. Reason you can kill without murdering is because you can kill a cow for dinner. It's only "murder" when it's illegal. The taking of one's life is murder in both man's law and God's law. But also have to keep in mind the time span something is written. In those days our language wasn't as complicated then as it is now. not true, I can also take something down that isnt mine if its on my property I can also take something from someone if they have given me permission neither is the same as stealing the bible mentions both killing and murder and they dont use them in the same context because one is against the law and one is not,,, as in 'a time to kill' as opposed to 'thou shalt not MURDER' Not true, exactly. If it's on your property but belongs to another. If you do not give it back, it is stealing. You can not take something that is not yours and it not be stealing. I can also take something from someone if they have given me permission Yes, if they give you persmission. the bible mentions both killing and murder and they dont use them in the same context because one is against the law and one is not Please out of couriosity to this statement, would you please tell us of two different verses. One using the word "kill" and the using the word "murder". And please make sure these verses are from the same version of the scriptures eg., KJV, new international, NKFJ, ect.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Mon 03/05/12 01:05 PM
I don't follow any "version" of the bible, I follow the scriptures, the message. I prefer KJV because it has been translated less then say the new international, ect. so Cowboy reveal which version of the bible you are using That states "Thou Shalt Not Murder" Have I posted a verse that says thou shalt not murder? No, I have not. Again, the time's have changed dramatically in language. Doesn't matter if it says kill or murder. For there was no difference at that time. The ONLY difference between killing and murder is in our sociaty now. "Murder" is the unlawful taking of a life. There is no "legal" form of killing when it comes to God. For he is our only judge. Just because someome raped or murdered your family, doesn't give you the right to punish them with death. Killing is killing, bottom line. Doesn't matter if it's "legal" or "illegal" according to our sociaty. Cowboy we are talking about what's in the bible not what's in the law book ....if the bible states that thou shalt not kill...then why are you even arguing about it

chocolina Joined Tue 12/07/10 Posts: 183	Mon 03/05/12 01:06 PM
msharmony said: relevance? explain how someone can steal without taking but taking is not a crime and STEALING is If I take the camera out of my desk, that is not illegal if I take YOUR camera, without your permission, that is illegal and called 'stealing' Chocolina said: Till here you didn't explain " how someone can steal without taking" You explain the difference between 'take' and 'steal' Now pls one more try ... How someone can steal without to take it ? msharmony said: you can kill without murdering,, just as you can take without stealing Here I'm lost in your logic twist Msharmony Cowboy said: It is true, you can "kill" without murdering. But you can only take without stealing if what you're taking is your own. Reason you can kill without murdering is because you can kill a cow for dinner. Reason you can kill without murdering is because you can kill a cow for dinner CowboyGH The miracle of twisting logic continue ... because to eat the cow for dinner you first have to murder it the reason-intention / cow for dinner/ consists itself murdering , and the process completes by killing the cow

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Mon 03/05/12 01:08 PM
msharmony said: relevance? explain how someone can steal without taking but taking is not a crime and STEALING is If I take the camera out of my desk, that is not illegal if I take YOUR camera, without your permission, that is illegal and called 'stealing' Chocolina said: Till here you didn't explain " how someone can steal without taking" You explain the difference between 'take' and 'steal' Now pls one more try ... How someone can steal without to take it ? msharmony said: you can kill without murdering,, just as you can take without stealing Here I'm lost in your logic twist Msharmony Cowboy said: It is true, you can "kill" without murdering. But you can only take without stealing if what you're taking is your own. Reason you can kill without murdering is because you can kill a cow for dinner. Reason you can kill without murdering is because you can kill a cow for dinner CowboyGH The miracle of twisting logic continue ... because to eat the cow for dinner you first have to murder it the reason-intention / cow for dinner/ consists itself murdering , and the process completes by killing the cow because to eat the cow for dinner you first have to murder it the reason-intention / cow for dinner/ consists itself murdering , and the process completes by killing the cow You can not "murder" a cow. Murder - The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. It is not unlawful to kill a cow, neither in man's law or God's law. So again, one could not "murder" a cow.

chocolina Joined Tue 12/07/10 Posts: 183	Mon 03/05/12 01:10 PM
CowboyGH still waiting for your answer here : If a man break into my house with intent to murder my child or woman... I will kill him if I must to stop him. There is most definately a different meaning in the words murder and kill. Or would you consider what I did 'murder' and so punish me? CoyboyGH said: Would be murder. Chocolina said: In this way how you gonna name that act when God has drown all ppl including babies in that ? CowboyGH said : No, a judgement is not murder. If a judgement was murder, there would be no such thing as the death penalty. For if a judge sentenced someone to death, the judge and the executioner(s) would then also have to be sentenced with murder. That is why we are not to murder, for Jesus is the judge, not us. Then the father killing his child by his judgement will be innocent , based on your claim ???

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Mon 03/05/12 01:11 PM
I don't follow any "version" of the bible, I follow the scriptures, the message. I prefer KJV because it has been translated less then say the new international, ect. so Cowboy reveal which version of the bible you are using That states "Thou Shalt Not Murder" Have I posted a verse that says thou shalt not murder? No, I have not. Again, the time's have changed dramatically in language. Doesn't matter if it says kill or murder. For there was no difference at that time. The ONLY difference between killing and murder is in our sociaty now. "Murder" is the unlawful taking of a life. There is no "legal" form of killing when it comes to God. For he is our only judge. Just because someome raped or murdered your family, doesn't give you the right to punish them with death. Killing is killing, bottom line. Doesn't matter if it's "legal" or "illegal" according to our sociaty. Cowboy we are talking about what's in the bible not what's in the law book ....if the bible states that thou shalt not kill...then why are you even arguing about it First of all, I'm not arguing about anything. Just shedding light on termonology. And it does not matter if the scriptures say thou shalt not kill or thou shalt not murder. Heck "murder" might no have even been a word at that time. Murder is the unlawful taking of another's life. You can ONLY murder another human being, not an animal, not a bug, not a flower, only a human being. And again, the termonology "murder" may not have been used at that time. So the only close word that could be used is kill.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Mon 03/05/12 01:16 PM
CowboyGH still waiting for your answer here : If a man break into my house with intent to murder my child or woman... I will kill him if I must to stop him. There is most definately a different meaning in the words murder and kill. Or would you consider what I did 'murder' and so punish me? CoyboyGH said: Would be murder. Chocolina said: In this way how you gonna name that act when God has drown all ppl including babies in that ? CowboyGH said : No, a judgement is not murder. If a judgement was murder, there would be no such thing as the death penalty. For if a judge sentenced someone to death, the judge and the executioner(s) would then also have to be sentenced with murder. That is why we are not to murder, for Jesus is the judge, not us. Then the father killing his child by his judgement will be innocent , based on your claim ??? ??? Not sure exactly what you're talking about here, but I'm pretty sure you're speaking of the crucifixion. Jesus' father didn't kill him, nor did he murder him. Jesus gave his life for us all. God isn't up there staring down here looking for an old person, maybe someone who's sick, or any other possible scenerio to end their life. God set this world up so eventually we'll pass away and new are born. Jesus died of natural causes if you will. Starvation, the things that were done to his body, dehydration, ect. Again, God wasn't up there looking down here while his child suffered and waited on a perfect time to end his life.

funches Joined Sat 12/01/07 Posts: 12948	Mon 03/05/12 01:20 PM
I don't follow any "version" of the bible, I follow the scriptures, the message. I prefer KJV because it has been translated less then say the new international, ect. so Cowboy reveal which version of the bible you are using That states "Thou Shalt Not Murder" Have I posted a verse that says thou shalt not murder? No, I have not. Again, the time's have changed dramatically in language. Doesn't matter if it says kill or murder. For there was no difference at that time. The ONLY difference between killing and murder is in our sociaty now. "Murder" is the unlawful taking of a life. There is no "legal" form of killing when it comes to God. For he is our only judge. Just because someome raped or murdered your family, doesn't give you the right to punish them with death. Killing is killing, bottom line. Doesn't matter if it's "legal" or "illegal" according to our sociaty. Cowboy we are talking about what's in the bible not what's in the law book ....if the bible states that thou shalt not kill...then why are you even arguing about it First of all, I'm not arguing about anything. Just shedding light on termonology. And it does not matter if the scriptures say thou shalt not kill or thou shalt not murder. Heck "murder" might no have even been a word at that time. Murder is the unlawful taking of another's life. You can ONLY murder another human being, not an animal, not a bug, not a flower, only a human being. And again, the termonology "murder" may not have been used at that time. So the only close word that could be used is kill. if "your" God commands to you that "Thou Shalt Not Kill" then you are supposed to follow that command and not do the work of Satan by shedding light on terminology that "your" God did not instruct you to follow.....

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Mon 03/05/12 01:24 PM
I don't follow any "version" of the bible, I follow the scriptures, the message. I prefer KJV because it has been translated less then say the new international, ect. so Cowboy reveal which version of the bible you are using That states "Thou Shalt Not Murder" Have I posted a verse that says thou shalt not murder? No, I have not. Again, the time's have changed dramatically in language. Doesn't matter if it says kill or murder. For there was no difference at that time. The ONLY difference between killing and murder is in our sociaty now. "Murder" is the unlawful taking of a life. There is no "legal" form of killing when it comes to God. For he is our only judge. Just because someome raped or murdered your family, doesn't give you the right to punish them with death. Killing is killing, bottom line. Doesn't matter if it's "legal" or "illegal" according to our sociaty. Cowboy we are talking about what's in the bible not what's in the law book ....if the bible states that thou shalt not kill...then why are you even arguing about it First of all, I'm not arguing about anything. Just shedding light on termonology. And it does not matter if the scriptures say thou shalt not kill or thou shalt not murder. Heck "murder" might no have even been a word at that time. Murder is the unlawful taking of another's life. You can ONLY murder another human being, not an animal, not a bug, not a flower, only a human being. And again, the termonology "murder" may not have been used at that time. So the only close word that could be used is kill. if "your" God commands to you that "Thou Shalt Not Kill" then you are supposed to follow that command and not do the work of Satan by shedding light on terminology that "your" God did not instruct you to follow..... What are you talking about Funches? They didn't even have the term "murder" when God gave these laws to the world. So if God would have spelt it out, thou shalt not murder, they wouldn't have a foggiest idea what he was meaning.