MsHarmony...in the bible the disciples of Jesus was called Christians...so I'm going to go out on a limb here and say, would it not be logical that Christians are those that believe in and follow the teachings of Christ?

what's the point of Christians claiming that Jesus is their Lord and Master and handing their life over to him if this don't require giving up their "Free Will"

I did not say that the decision to get out of bed had been made.

I said that if you don't have the will to get up, you will stay in bed until you do have the will to get up.

You have to have the will to do something BEFORE you make any decisions.

No.

The will is the thinking center. It is the soul. It is the one that makes the decision.

The will is the decider.

ok, so , where does JESUS state anything that backs up your claim that they wont be 'christian' unless they 'blindly' follow something or someone(including God)

OR

that not doing so will lead to burning in hell forever?

JennieBean...you're not describing "Will"...you're describing "reason"...without a reason there is no need to make a decision to get out of bed ...

"Free Will" have consequences ....exactly what consequences do making a decision have if you have not carried out that decision

you can make a decision during a dream...what's the consequences?

you can make a conscious decision....what's the consequences?

there are no consequences until you attempt to turn those thoughts into actions...and that is Will


In The Context of Religion
a follower can have a thought or make a decision to defy God's commands....but the Wrath of God does not come into play until the follower you use their Free Will to perform an action or inaction of defiance

this is why "Free Will" is the ability to turn a decision into an action ..because only then are there consequences for those actions by the Wrath of God

a wombat can do everything that you described...now tell about how a wombat have a soul

John 14:23
Jesus replied, "All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with each of them.

John 14:24
He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

Matthew 7:19
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Matthew 7:20
Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you can identify people by their actions.

John 14:23
Jesus replied, "All who LOVE me will do what I say. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with each of them.

John 14:24
He who does not LOVE me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

Matthew 7:19
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Matthew 7:20
Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you can identify people by their actions.


Funches,Notice the word LOVE.

We obey out of LOVE, NOT because we HAVE to obey.

Also...IF a person is born of God , that person WILL BEAR FRUIT.

IF a person is NOT born of God , that person WILL NOT BEAR FRUIT.




"YOU SHALL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS."


.

MorningSong....you're double talking

Jesus made it clear that if you do not obey him, you therefore do not Love him... and that the consequences for disobedience which as Jesus explained was the same as absence of your love for him, is that those followers get tossed into the fire ...

love and obedience out of threat cancels out "Free Will"

No it does not, for you still have the choice to obey or not.

Cowboy...as a follower you have no choice but obedience...or you will burn

Well you can believe in soul or not. I have heard that animals have over souls.

Doesn't matter if you believe or not. That's like saying "I don't believe in the president, I think he's just a made up character so the government can control us, so I don't have to listen to what he may say"

Secondly, I do still have a choice to be obedient or not. I can be obedient as he wishes, or I could be disobedient and suffer the consequence.

so are you trying to suggest that the soul is what constitute as being "Thought"

Its more like soul is the thinker of thoughts.

for the sake of argument, let's say that you are right....but disboeying a direct command from a president do not result in your apse being burn for all eternity ..if so all of congress would be roasting



Cowboy...you already admited that you would be like woman for your Father and allow him to impregnant you ....but you still have not answered why you would do this for your father without it sounding like homosexual love

the reason I asked this question is why would you or your brand of religion condemn others that may become like a woman for another Man if you are willing to do the same for your Father

sounds like you may do this out of fear ....because if you claim that it's love...it's sounds like homsexual love

what are the consequences for having thoughts

I guess it would depend on the thoughts.

A hypochondriac who 'thinks' they are sick can literally become sick when those thoughts turn to belief.

none of those verses mention anything about being a 'blind' follower, nor do they say that not following anyone will lead to fire

it says 'good' , which is not explained by blind obedience,,,,


notice the difference,,,'he who does not have legs, wont walk'...compared to 'he who doesnt walk, does not have legs',,,,NOT The same statement,,,

The religion nor the people condemn anyone. No one condemns anyone but themselves. We are foretold the outcome of certain actions, so if this someone wishes to do these certain actions, they would be condemning them self would they not be?

And no, the love of the father is not "homosexual" love, nor would it be if he impregnated me. HomoSEXual actions are those when two of the same gender have SEX. There would be no sexual intercourse involved if God wished for me to bare his child. Nor was there any sexual intercourse when Marry was impregnated with Jesus.