there seems to be some dispute as to what a prophecy is... whether they are logical, magical or takes aways 'Free Will"

in the Abrahamic Religions a prophecy would be knowledge of the future handed down by God of an event which can not be altered by anyone other than God to not take place...

since the prophecy has been deemed by God to take place, then it therefore must and shall take place and therefore automatically takes away "Free Will" due to the intervention of God shifting and manipulating events in order for the prophecy to take place..

and this is why in religion there is no "Free Will"....and why the term prophecy only applies to religion because it is of knowledge of the future given by God or a God

but once God is taken out the equation then what does that imply about predicting the future ...would it just mean that predicting the future is not magical or any special feat but just the ability to deduce a future event due to perceiving consciously or subconsciously occurrences in the everyday happenstance of life and subconsciously processing this information to deduce a logical conclusion or assumption or to simply put it...an educated guess

if you believe that biblical prophecy can take place without taking away "Free Will" then tell of a biblical prophecy and explain why it didn't wouldn't or couldn't take away anyone "Free Will"

if you believe in ESP or fortune telling prophets and prophetesses or believe you have the ability to predict a future event through dreams then reveal an event that you believe will take place

if you believe that predictions are just logical deductions then tell of a future event but in this case explain logically why it will take place

this thread can be used as a time capsule to see if any predictions are accurate or come True and to see if anyone has this power or ability

I'll bite on this one, but only to dispel a common misunderstanding concerning the potential of "ESP" and possible psychic abilities.

First a disclaimer:

I am not claiming to believe in ESP, or psychic abilities. I will confess that I do consider them to be possibilities, and therefore I give them serious considerations. I personally use Tarot and other methods of divination. I do not consider these psychic events to be fortune telling or prophecy.

I have learned about divination from mentors who explain it as psychic awareness of the current state of affairs. It is an insight into possible future events. They may or may not come to pass.

How is this useful

Well, if you know how things are likely to unfold if you pursue a certain path, then you can still choose whether or not to travel that path. If you choose not to take that path, then clearly the divination that had been revealed to you will not come to pass.

So divination is not fortune telling in the sense of being prophecy that is carved in stone. Although it is often sold as such in movies and fictional novels. It even has been recorded in history where famous people had gone to a psychic, had a reading, and then continued down the path they were on anyway. They typically end up with the predicted fate when they do that.

But that doesn't mean that they could not have avoided that fate.

I don't recall who it was, but I once saw a documentary about some military leader who went to a psychic for a reading about a battle he was about to engage in. The psychic told him that he would lose the battle in a very bad way. The military man took his troops into the battle and lost in a very bad way.

Did that need to happen? No it didn't. After having had the psychic reading, the military commander could have made other plans and avoided that particular battle. But he didn't make that FREE WILL choice.

So in that sense divination doesn't have any affect on your FREE WILL, it simply tells you what will happen if you continue down the path that you are already on. But you certainly have FREE WILL to change course anytime you like.

It could be possible that biblical prophecies were along those similar lines. Things didn't need to work out as they if people would have made different choices.

The only problem with religious doctrines is that they seldom give alternative prophecies stating that things will either go this way, or that way. That wouldn't be very impressive as a 'prophecy'. So to make it appear impressive they need to state precisely what will happen.

~~~~

If you want a prediction I can give you one. If the USA continues on it's economic course it WILL achieve economic ruin.

I can base that on pure observation and logic.

Is that "prophecy"?

I can also tell you that if they change their ways they can avoid it.

And now for the real "Miracle Prophecy"!

I prophesize that they will not change their ways in time to avoid financial disaster.

But rest assured that I do not claim to be a prophet. I just think it's pretty darn obvious.

Although, they'll probably sneak by the whole divination by just printing more mammon.

I consider educated guesses to be things that a reasonable person could deduce from their own experiences


i consider 'prophecy' to be prediction of things that could not have been deducted from experience alone

for example,,,,if a gal walks in with a guy who she is beaming at

I could make an educated guess that 'the two of you will wed'


IF I guessed however that 'the two of you will wed , but on your wedding day, there will be three major setbacks, one of which will be a very disappointing absence,,,but the day will end in a great windfall'



that would be more of a 'prophecy' , particularly if the wedding day went PRECISELY as 'guessed'


The cake collapses(set back one)

The church floods( set back two)

The mother in law is hospitalized before the service for food poisoning( set back three and the disappoing absence)

at the reception, the groom sees an alert on his phone that his lotto numbers are winners (the great windfall)


,,,its really , the precision in DETAILS, that makes something more than an 'educated guess',,,,,in my opinion

not sure it would be a prophecy but more like Math...anyone that is spending more than they are bringing in would be heading towards ecomonic ruin

although there are many factors as to why two people would wed...money, green card, pregnancy etc. but I'm thinkng more in the realm of what if there are particular signs that two people that are destined to wed would make to each other...a sort of subconscious mating ritual that you the observer subconsciously picks up which lead to your prediction that the two will wed



what if you predicted that there would be three major setbacks pertaining to the couple's wedding because of other signs you subconsciouly picked up from the couple of things they have experience and passed on to you in their mating ritual as you observed them

in other words can you come up with a scenerio of something that the couple experienced earlier which would logically cause you to predict and link the couple to a flood a cake collapse and food posioning on the day of their wedding

Well you did ask for a prediction based on logic:

I cant think of anything that would logically cause me to come up with a precise number of setbacks, the nature of one setback and the very rare type of ending to their night,,,,

especially if all I observed was them walking in the door smiling at each other,,,

FOR EXAMPLE

earlier the couple in question made the decision to become engage while viewing a flock of birds flying in migration formation

when you happen to observe this engaged couple interacting for some reason you just happen to think to yourself that the couple will wed the church will flood the cake wil collapse the mother in law will get food poisoning and the groom will win the lotto

when you observe the couple and what you didn't realize was they both were subconsciouly relaying all this information to you in hand gestures body language etc. in which your subconscious processed which lead to your conclusions

how is that possible?

when the couple viewed the birds earlier the birds were actually flying in the opposite direction of their normal migration pattern because they sensed an interruption in the Earth's magnetic field due to subtle Earth termors that will eventually lead to an Earthquake that would take place at a specific date and time and area which cause the birds to change their migration pattern,

this information was relayed from the birds to the couple as they watch them fly but the couple not being able to process the information but could retain the information instead used this information of the Earthquake as a time and date and area to hold their wedding ....

the tremors cause by the Earthquake would explain why the church would be flooded and why the cake would collaspe and why the mother-in-law would go to the hospital for food poisoning but it was actually an imbalance of her inner ear brought on by the Earth tremors that cause her to be nausea and it appeared to be food poisoning and the daughter in gestures relayed this to you due to the fact that she subconsciouly knew that an Earth quake would take place and that her mother easily gets sea sick ...

the point is that the mind consciously and subconsciously is constantly bombarded with information and can process it to deduce a logical conclusion which people like to call a prediction ..but it's actually simple logic

the same can be applied as to how you knew that the groom would win the lotto ....

I think there is a difference between some mental osmosis (Transferring information telekinetically)

and what we consider 'simple logic'

none of the information in the example was transmitted telekinetically, it was all transmitted by body language and inherent knowledge that the consciously mind viewed and dismiss as being nothing but was retained and processed by the subconscious

so knowledge of a birds migration and geographic trends is

'inherent' knowledge? thats interesting



what body language could someone transmit, merely walking through a door, that would trigger such an 'inherently' logical conclusion to that much detail?

Jeez MsHarmony...I said body language and inherent knowledge..."Inherent knowledge" would apply to the birds altering their migration patteren due to the interruption in The Earth's Magnetic Field by the Earth Tremors

all I'm pointing out is just like biblical prophecy there is no magic involved... it's all just cause and effect

in the example I said as you observe the couple interacting your subconscous picks up and processes the gestures of the couple...think of it as how those that use sign language communicate ...every gesture they make with their hands or body speaks voumes....in my example it is the same except it is your subconscious that is interpeting and processing the body language

nah, still not quite logical that their gestures would let my subconscious know that they were looking at birds and that those birds had changed their flight patterns,,,,

that's because you want to believe in magic.....so you explain how you made the prediction that a cake will collapse....did a little elf tell you

and that nothing happens at random and that it's impossible for any event to take place without first showing cause ...and that "Cause" does not travel in leaps and bound but gives continuous signs that runs steady and smoothly as a stream which is why there is nothing magically about Prophecy and that when God is included into the equation Prophecy has no other function but to take away "Free Will"

for instance

when The Bible tells of how a Messiah is coming...a Messiah wasn't born randomly or by happenstance or playing the odds or induced by faith, according to The New Testament God intervene took away Mary's "Free Will" and impregnated her in order to create a Messiah and this is why Prophecy cancels out "Free Will" and why Free Will in religion is a myth because it's impossible for Prophecy and Free Will to co-exist....

How in the world does that automatically take away free will? Say you "make a prophecy" that your neighbour will get up around 6 am like he normally does, go out to get the paper off the front porch, then sit on a chair on his porch and read his paper till 7:30, then go inside. Have you now taken away his free will when it does this the next morning? A prophecy is purely a foreseen action and or event. Does not mean the one making the prophecy caused it to happen or even instigated it or helped it to happen. Just purely seen it to happen in the future. So please, once again explain how this would be God taking away any free will of anyone.

If you states that your neighbor will get up at 6 am because that is the time that he normally gets up then it's called "Common Sense" not Prophecy .... it's about the same as you saying that the Sun normally sets at Sunset and then be surprise if it does

Mary got pregnant because God's intervention took away her "Free Will" and cause her to get pregnant or are you going to say that Mary normally let God get her pregnant at 6 am

THE PROPHECY

that technology will evolve man beyond himself, and rid him of emotions

every thought or emotion one has causes a neuro-chemical to be released in the brain which in turn cause the body to react or want to react which also causes chemical reactions, and each of these reactions has it's own unique chemical signature which premeate within and around the body and/or vibrate at a certain frequency ...this is what some refer to as an Aura

by taking a photo of a person, the film when place through a filter can reveal an Aura and the combination of factors that form the Aura which means that the thoughts of the person in the picture can be read ...even with old photos the thoughts or the exact thought the person was having at that point in time will be engrained into the photo

by placing these filters in eye-glasses or contact lenses the wearer will have the ability to read the thoughts of and know every action the other person is about to make ....this technology will cause people to start learning how to control what they are thinking and therefore rid themselves of emotions ...it may bring about a new form of consciousness or perhaps insanity as the conscious is forced to merge with the subconscious

THE PROPHECY

That the cell phone will become so small that it can be implanted within the ear in which a phone number can be dialed to another person with the same ear implant just by thinking of the number or the person which the two parties can communicate with each other which would constitute as being telepathy ...one would also have the ability to control other devices linked to the cell phone and access to the internet simply by thinking of it