I have as much authority as you do.

Logic means it makes sense. The deductions can be made to make it make sense. Religion doesn't have that luxury, it is a leap of faith.

I've been a member of a religion most of my entire life - and I haven't experienced any of what you "claim" reliigon is responsible for. What are you basing your statements on? What experience do you have with religion? What are some examples that you can site where a religion is to blame - and not an individual or group of individual's interpretation of a religious philosophy is not to blame. The only example I can think of is Satanism and some forms of Witchcraft or Paganism where what you claim is more a part of the religious philosophy than the individuals who are interpreting it.

And I know of no religion with a special priviledge with God. As a matter of fact - it is religion which keeps one from God more often than not.

Well - I've spent the better part of the last 30 years studying logic. Atheism and logic do not belong in a sentence together - unless it is to say that one has nothing to do with the other.

Logic is built on acceptable premises which lead to inevidible conclusions. It is a branch of mathematics. Atheism - or religion for that matter, is a part of philosophy. While it may be true that logical conclusions can be drawn in Atheism - they can also be drawn in belief of the tooth fairy.

Atheism is no more or less logical than Christianity, Hinduism, or blief (or lack of) Santa Claus.

so Buddhism isn't a religion either according to definition because they don't have a god?

Atheists (and I'll say this again) have a belief. They believe that there is no god or higher power, so therefore they do have a belief.

The Supreme Court interprets the constitution and found it to be a religion as described in the First Amendment. And it can't be they are a religion when it suits them either. they could get tax breaks as any other church since it is recognized as a religion

They have gatherings to discuss their beliefs (call them churches or whatever but they serve the same purpose)

as far as it being logic....can they prove there is no god any more than other religions can prove there is? would that not be based on faith as well? There is no "proof" from any side to prove beyond a shadow of doubt regarding this question.

is not believing the same as believing in nought?

Only on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Tuesdays.

Obviously you are blinded by your own beliefs to see what I am talking about because the examples you gave are not even slightly on target.

I was raised both Catholic and Baptist and have been around religious folks all my life. So I am speaking from personal observation. I have seen religion take a logical person and turn them into an illogical "righteous" mess. I have seen the damage religion has on children. I have seen personally people who feel "justified" and "righteous" that those who do not believe as them are deserving of bad things to happen to them.

Every religion teaches divisiveness, superiority and hypocrisy. I have studied different religions and it is the same with most of them. The major religions definitely do this. All of Christianity does it.

All of the concepts in most religion contort logical thought and create a twisted sense of reality. So a person in power with this twist is not necessarily the best to make important decisions.

Still waiting for the answer on atheists and the Dark Ages and where they caused it?!!

well that one I don't know myself, I'm kinda curious about that one myself. I was actually referring to Stalin to make a point

My thought exactly. Religion seems an easy scapegoat for the flaws of people. Without religion , we would still have divisiveness and all the other things people continue to blame upon religion. People belong to different families, they belong to different countries, they belong to different states,, all these things cause a certain level of division just by nature of the word 'different'. People have allegiances to the groups they feel a part of and that would be true with or without religion. People do and say terrible things to those 'outside' their group as well, which whould be true without religion. I agree with yellow that to say we would be better without religion is like saying we would be better without men,,,humans will do what humans do,,whatever reason they might give.

do athiests actually believe that if there were no religion everything would be like a hippie commune with flowers, campfires, and smores? Remember communist Russia banned religion at one time and millions died because of it.

under Stalin

I'm not blinded by my own beliefs - I just don't see the same thing you do through the clouded specticles you see life with.

First off - we are not in disagreement about what goes on in the world - i see the same things you do as far as people doing injustices to themselves, and teaching children to do the same - but I don't see where the blame is on "religion" - and not the people intelligent enough to understand what it is they think they believe.

Your caim that every religion teaches divisiveness, superiority and hypocracy is blatenly false. Period. not only is this not true - i say that you cannot name one religion outside of Satanism that can support this claim of yours. Certainly not christianity. And if that's your claim - I attest that you don't know what christianity is.

Now - I'm not going to sit here and admit that there are not religions in this world who's philosophy is not inherantly damaging and dangerous. I would never make that claim. In fact - for the most part, I would tend to agree with the OP about his initial intent behind the firdt post. But for radically different reasons. I've seen all the damage that has been done since the religion of "Evolution" has been introduced into the main stream, and our children forced to accept it as truth. There has been no other religion throughout time that hs done more damage to the human race than that of evolution. From it we have the autrocities of Hitler and Stalin - euthanasia - abortion, all born out of the philosophies of Evolution.

But my sense is - that this is not the aspects of religion that you'd agree with me on as far as it's destructive influence. Why?

Because you are blinded by your own beliefs.

So who's the blind one here? Who see's only what they want to see?

Yeh but Stalin was recent, not the dark ages. :-)

Looking over the dark ages alone,more atrocities were committed then by the Church and it's various factions, then by Stalin, or Hitler. Shrugs.

I'm not sure where the dark ages came from.

Stalin was used for my theory that testosterone could be cause of it just as the argument that religion is the cause

Actually no, most atheists are realists. Hippie communes and flower power was/is a fantasy, and while a nice one for some, not a big ideal to live up to.

Atheists prefer people who take individual responsibilities and actually contribute to society's progress, not throw it back into the dark ages or get out of things by saying "God wills it"

Actually, while not Stalin specifically, my Psych class was discussing testosterone being a problem if its used as an excuse to get away with things like that.

LOL!

hey E.D.....I like my theory lol. too much can drive you crazy

IMO that theory is just as valid as religion made me do it

look at how PMS effects some women. they can be down right scary. so too much testosterone could cause it too

Yep, I agree!

Only women get degraded and talked down about PMS while men get hoorahed for it.

Interesting...you can become an ordained Atheist minister?

http://firstchurchofatheism.com/index.php/become-ordained/