Love, forgiveness, spirit, allowing, tolerance, kindness, compassion, empathy...ALL these gifts can be experienced and expressed without religion.

We do not have to be part of one of the big religions to have such things in our lives...

Once I was able to dump my childhood religion and lose the salvation theory all together...then I was able to truly experience what spirituality really is. I know there is something bigger than me behind the wheel. It is when I am hiking the mountains, or sitting along the river that I feel a presence of pure love, not in a church building.

I dont believe religion is the basis for why we cant live peacefully, if I am wrong point me to the nearest utopian atheist community....


People , by nature, will divide and survive and oppress, with or without religion.

Show me the atheists of war and division?

They are mixed in with everyone else, just like those of peace are, because people are flawed, with or without religion.

If you look through history there are no atheists of war.

So your logic doesn't stand the test of truth.

My logic is more like common sense actually, Far too many people since the beginning of time have been atheists for me to believe NONE of them encouraged or supported war.

Most wars are fought over property and power, not things that only the religious are guilty of wanting.

I know you cannot find the atheists because most of them were not part of creating the reason for war.

What do you think religion is???

Power.

You cannot dispute it. Not legitimately anyway,

I know you cannot find the atheists because most of them were not part of creating the reason for war.

What do you think religion is???

Power.

You cannot dispute it. Not legitimately anyway,

funny, can you please enlighten us with some ways Christianity in general has anything to do with gaining power for ones self?

Well, it would be an endless debate because each side can come up with support for their point of view honestly. I could site that Japan, Vietnam, and Germany are all highly atheist countries and we know the wars they have been part of and the oppression that they have experienced. It would be futile to try to convince me that anyone knows the percentage of those war supporters who believe in Jesus vs those who dont, but it is unreasonable to assume that to not believe in Christ means to not believe in or support war.

I guess you don't know what you are talking about here.

Example;

Religion in Japan
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Japan

There are many religions in Japan that have come along with current times but most follow Shintō or Buddhism. Most Japanese people do not identify as exclusively belonging to just one religion, but incorporate features of both religions into their daily lives in a process known as syncretism. Shinto and Buddhism are even taken to as being interwoven in the country. Japanese streets are decorated on Tanabata, Obon and Christmas. Japan grants religious freedom to all sects of religious people, as evidenced by the fact they allow minority religions like Christianity, Islam and Sikhism to be practiced. According to the CIA World Factbook 84% to 96% adhere to Shinto and Buddhism while 4% to 16% of the demographic population adhere to other religions or non-religious, atheist groups.[1] However, such high numbers come primarily from birth records, following a longstanding practice of family lines being officially associated with a local Buddhist temple and not the people truly following the religion. The majority of Japanese carry on the roles of one or more religious body, but do not consider themselves believers in one particular religion, but are syncretistic.[2]

Religion in Vietnam
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Vietnam

The earliest established religions in Vietnam are Mahayana Buddhism, Confucianism, and Daoism (called the "triple religion" or tam giáo). Significant minorities of adherents to Roman Catholicism, Cao Dai, and Hoa Hao and smaller minorities of adherents to Protestantism, Islam, Hinduism, and Theravada Buddhism were established later, in recent centuries.

The majority of Vietnamese people classify themselves as non-religious, although they visit religious temples several times every year. Their everyday behaviours and attitudes are dictated by the synthesis of philosophies which can be traced from many religions, especially Mahayana Buddhism, Confucianism, and Daoism. Those religions have been co-existing in the country for centuries and mixed perfectly with the Vietnamese tradition of worshiping their ancestors and national heroes. That special mix explains why the people there find it hard to say exactly which religion they belong to.

Religion in Germany
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Germany

Christianity is the largest religion in Germany with 54,765,265 (67.07%) adherents as of the end of 2006.[1] The second largest religion is Islam with 3.3 million adherents (4%)[1] followed by Buddhism and Judaism. During the last few decades, the two largest churches in Germany (the Protestant Evangelical Church in Germany or EKD and the Roman Catholic church), have lost significant number of adherents, both are down to roughly 30%.[2] [3] With 30.7 % as per the end of 2008, the Catholic Church is still close to its pre-World War II 1939 percentage of 33%.[4]

The most notable losses occurred in the Protestant churches, especially owing to the atheistic policy conducted in former East Germany. However since the fall of the communistic regime two decades ago, the EKD continued losing members.[3]. Other churches in Germany are all rather small (equal or less than 0.5%).[1] As a result of re-unification (of East and West Germany), the number of Germans without a religion has grown, especially owing to the addition of the eastern states with their large non-religious majority. Hamburg has also joined this segment of the non-religious German population.[5]


So try again....

sorry that you feel this way,, I am sure Jesus would have been called a broken record too so that is ok. It was he who decided noone sees the Father but through him. That is not my judgement that is His direction. I have stated over and over that the decision will be that of The Lord, which is no different than saying noone sees the father Without Christ. It is not mans decision, but that of Christ. I do not have all the answers, but I have been brought up to respect the example and words of Christ.

Now you are comparing yourself to Jesus...my god girl!
Actually I would love to have a conversation with Jesus, I'm sure he was creative and intelligent enough to not sound like a broken record.

JB is correct. We can say that atheists have beliefs simply because they are human, not because they are atheists. There is only one belief universal to 'strong atheists' (the positive belief in the nonexistence of deities) , and there are no beliefs universal to 'weak atheists'.




This sounds like Fundamentalist Christian Kool Aid to me. If you are talking about a Secular Humanist, the intelligent thing to do is to say "Secular Humanist." To say "atheist" when you mean "Secular Humanist" is both dishonest and contrary to an intelligent development of thought, IMO.

Its obvious to me, from listening to tons of Christian talk radio and reading many books on apologetics (intended for lay people, not theologians) that there is a massive trend of Fundamentalists Christians continuously repeating bizarre ideas, promoting false logic, and taking arguments out of their original context to obtain a kind of 'mass hypnosis' of the ridiculous . Saying that "atheism is a religion" is one of those phrases/memes/beliefs.

It is complete an total nonsense, and obviously so if you just take a look at words composing the sentence.

There are similar statements that an honest and intelligent person could make.... such as, "it looks like all humans, including atheists, have a belief system of some sort" or "it looks like all humans, including atheists, take a lot of their belief system on faith" or "many atheists participate in some cultural phenemona that are atheist in nature and yet which have the same qualities of religions" and on and on.

Saying that "atheism is a religion" is at least as foolish as saying that "theism is a religion".

Obviously you.

You have missed on all of your examples still about the teachings of christianity.

I cannot help you because of your blinders. You will continue to believe what you do, be it right or wrong.

Most religions teach divisiveness, superiority and hypocrisy, there is not way around it and individuality doesn't change it. If you follow the religion you will incorporate divisiveness, superiority and hypocrisy in your beliefs, projections and judgements.

athiests use logic? What kind of logic contends that humans came from monkeys when there are still primates in existence?


The logic is only one chromosome being different, the similar skeletal structures, that there are an overwhelmingly large amount of physical similarities. In religion there is no logic, that is where blind faith comes in. In atheism, there is a reliance on the scientific method. A person using this method doesnt necessarily look at something as it being entirely right without testing it rigorously. The science-minded person will take a hypothesis and conduct the tests with the aim of disproving old theories. Religion teaches us not to question our faith. There is no logic in not evaluating something. So, yes, atheists use logic, and are some of the most logical individuals out there. There are sub-species that are formed, but the original creatures in which the sub-species formed from are still in existence. There is absolutely no logic in that a deity made a man out of dirt, then breathed into his nose, then he came to life, or that a rib was taken from a man in his sleep, and formed into a woman. But, then again, thats where blind faith comes in.

I'll admit I do see christians, on the whole, as being inherently evil. Though this is not a predjudice w/o cause, I assure you. I've known far too many professed "good" christains who had no problems commiting blantantly evil acts. And history is repleat with such examples. And that pretty much goes for just about anyone with a belief system that has a godthing or things at it's head.
However, I do make the effort to take into account any individuals actions or words.

I have to disagree with you on the "fault of the laws existing" thing. There have been many many bad laws in human history that good people should've and indeed have, railed against. If I had been born in the mid 1800's or before, I would've been proud to break laws to free slaves. And I would've been quite happy to kill slave owners to do it too. I would've defended indians, women, or whatever group of intelligent lifeforms were being oppressed or enslaved. The laws be damned. God's or man's.
Which brings me to another point, christianity has been an excuse for slavery and the oppression of women. For almost it's entire history. Doesn't that bother you?