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| Topic: Religion Endangers Humanity And Its Future | |
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God commanded clearly not to kill or steal(which was done to slaves). But many of those killers were convinced that the slaves weren't people. Didn't they decide that slaves didn't have souls, just like animals don't have souls, so its okay to kill them. Yay Bible interpretations! Yet another reason why I question the adequacy of the Bible as a moral guide. It seems like some other religious texts are a little more clear about the importance of compassion for all life. You got to respect those God fearing people who bought slaves, but never stole a slave from someone else. At least they adhered to that Biblical moral doctrine against stealing. Yay! Okay, come on now! Someone ought to bust out the scripture which just makes it so clear to modern Christians that slavery is wrong. Problem is, every culture (geographical, historical) has its own interpretation, and then there are the wing-nuts who are totally convinced that their interpretation is NOT an interpretation, its the 'truth' of what the Bible says. |
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God commanded clearly not to kill or steal(which was done to slaves). But many of those killers were convinced that the slaves weren't people. Didn't they decide that slaves didn't have souls, just like animals don't have souls, so its okay to kill them. Yay Bible interpretations! Yet another reason why I question the adequacy of the Bible as a moral guide. It seems like some other religious texts are a little more clear about the importance of compassion for all life. You got to respect those God fearing people who bought slaves, but never stole a slave from someone else. At least they adhered to that Biblical moral doctrine against stealing. Yay! Okay, come on now! Someone ought to bust out the scripture which just makes it so clear to modern Christians that slavery is wrong. Problem is, every culture (geographical, historical) has its own interpretation, and then there are the wing-nuts who are totally convinced that their interpretation is NOT an interpretation, its the 'truth' of what the Bible says. I can only answer by saying that my example is CHRIST , he was very clear about how to treat others and he lived a very clear example of how to live. That some fools twist the example of Christ or the words of God, is the reason God gave us a BRAIN to reason for ourselves. It is a big book with alot of history and alot of lessons but we need to reconcile it with how Jesus lived his life on earth. |
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I can only answer by saying that my example is CHRIST , he was very clear about how to treat others and he lived a very clear example of how to live. That some fools twist the example of Christ or the words of God, is the reason God gave us a BRAIN to reason for ourselves. It is a big book with alot of history and alot of lessons but we need to reconcile it with how Jesus lived his life on earth. Well said, MsHarmony. |
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I can only answer by saying that my example is CHRIST , he was very clear about how to treat others and he lived a very clear example of how to live. That some fools twist the example of Christ or the words of God, is the reason God gave us a BRAIN to reason for ourselves. It is a big book with alot of history and alot of lessons but we need to reconcile it with how Jesus lived his life on earth. Well said, MsHarmony. thank you, its a real compliment coming from one who is so respectful and logical (even though I dont always agree with your logic..lol). |
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This is not Christ like, and I am sorry these are the types of experiences you have had. In trying to follow the example of Christ, I do not feel superior to anyone, I feel we all sin and that is mostly what I get the most flack about. I never say that I am better than anyone because I dont believe I am. I do aknowledge wrong from right though, regardless of if I am the transgressor or someone else,, and I get flack for that as well. Actually it is Christ like because it is the practice of Christians. Christianity cannot teach equality because it teaches divisiveness ie "my religion is the one true and right religion", it teaches superiority ie "some humans will go to hell because of what they believe but it won't be me the great Christian", it teaches hypocrisy ie "I am not held responsible for my sins because I go to church on Sunday and get forgiven" Until religions embrace all other religions and non religious as equal and deserving of heaven including all sexual orientations they will be discriminatory and not healthy for humans to follow. This is flawed logic in my opinion. First,Christ like means like Christ, of whom there was only one,, not like any and every one who claims to be christian. I dont believe anyones RELIGION(religious title or affiliation) makes them any better or worse than anyone else. It is how we live our lives that will be judged by God , not what title we give ourself. I also dont believe I know who will go to heaven or who will not, I was taught that only God knows or will decide. I do know the paths that Christ set out for us to follow and I choose that path hoping to reach the destination I seek. I also have never not felt responsible for sin, forgiveness doesnt absolve one of responsibility and I was never taught this either. I embrace religious beliefs, I dont embrace all actions and words anymore than a non religious person does. I dont think it would be healthy to have an everything is fine to do attitude(regardless of religious or non religious affiliation). I do think there are paths to heaven and paths which dont lead to heaven, just as some paths will get me from Las Vegas to Los Angeles and others wont. If I am trying to get to Los Angeles, I just follow those paths,, it doesnt mean I feel better than those trying to get to Arizona, or those trying to get to Los Angeles by way of Indianapolis. I just feel we all choose different paths and they dont all end up at the same destination. so...If a person lives a virtuous life, helps others when he can, ect, but never confesses any belief in a godthing, do you think he gets a pass unto Heaven or not? Noone gets a 'pass'.. it will be up to God. Without God there is no heaven though. Personally, I use the example of my biological dad when trying to understand God. My father had rules in his home, if you didnt abide by them you werent permitted in his home,,it was very simple with him. I will not profess to know with certaintly who will or will not see the Father except that my bible says those who REJECT him(which is different than not knowing him) will certainly not see him. ah...so a good person who rejects God or the idea of a godthing is still screwed. What an ego this God person must have. You know, if an actual person displayed those kinds of attitudes towards their underlings, that person would almost universly be decreed as a tyrant. If an otherwise 'good' person rejects God, that person also rejects heaven(Gods house), makes the choice for themself that they dont want either, and therefore merely gets what they request and are not 'screwed'. If I chose not to let someone in my home based upon them detesting me and my home, that would not be a tyrant,, but a just person. What if the alternative to coming in your home was pain and death for the person who detests you? Would you still refuse entry? |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sat 01/23/10 01:28 PM
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This is not Christ like, and I am sorry these are the types of experiences you have had. In trying to follow the example of Christ, I do not feel superior to anyone, I feel we all sin and that is mostly what I get the most flack about. I never say that I am better than anyone because I dont believe I am. I do aknowledge wrong from right though, regardless of if I am the transgressor or someone else,, and I get flack for that as well. Actually it is Christ like because it is the practice of Christians. Christianity cannot teach equality because it teaches divisiveness ie "my religion is the one true and right religion", it teaches superiority ie "some humans will go to hell because of what they believe but it won't be me the great Christian", it teaches hypocrisy ie "I am not held responsible for my sins because I go to church on Sunday and get forgiven" Until religions embrace all other religions and non religious as equal and deserving of heaven including all sexual orientations they will be discriminatory and not healthy for humans to follow. This is flawed logic in my opinion. First,Christ like means like Christ, of whom there was only one,, not like any and every one who claims to be christian. I dont believe anyones RELIGION(religious title or affiliation) makes them any better or worse than anyone else. It is how we live our lives that will be judged by God , not what title we give ourself. I also dont believe I know who will go to heaven or who will not, I was taught that only God knows or will decide. I do know the paths that Christ set out for us to follow and I choose that path hoping to reach the destination I seek. I also have never not felt responsible for sin, forgiveness doesnt absolve one of responsibility and I was never taught this either. I embrace religious beliefs, I dont embrace all actions and words anymore than a non religious person does. I dont think it would be healthy to have an everything is fine to do attitude(regardless of religious or non religious affiliation). I do think there are paths to heaven and paths which dont lead to heaven, just as some paths will get me from Las Vegas to Los Angeles and others wont. If I am trying to get to Los Angeles, I just follow those paths,, it doesnt mean I feel better than those trying to get to Arizona, or those trying to get to Los Angeles by way of Indianapolis. I just feel we all choose different paths and they dont all end up at the same destination. so...If a person lives a virtuous life, helps others when he can, ect, but never confesses any belief in a godthing, do you think he gets a pass unto Heaven or not? Noone gets a 'pass'.. it will be up to God. Without God there is no heaven though. Personally, I use the example of my biological dad when trying to understand God. My father had rules in his home, if you didnt abide by them you werent permitted in his home,,it was very simple with him. I will not profess to know with certaintly who will or will not see the Father except that my bible says those who REJECT him(which is different than not knowing him) will certainly not see him. ah...so a good person who rejects God or the idea of a godthing is still screwed. What an ego this God person must have. You know, if an actual person displayed those kinds of attitudes towards their underlings, that person would almost universly be decreed as a tyrant. If an otherwise 'good' person rejects God, that person also rejects heaven(Gods house), makes the choice for themself that they dont want either, and therefore merely gets what they request and are not 'screwed'. If I chose not to let someone in my home based upon them detesting me and my home, that would not be a tyrant,, but a just person. What if the alternative to coming in your home was pain and death for the person who detests you? Would you still refuse entry? but it was not the only alternative,, the alternative is to aknowledge that the pain and suffering is not the better choice and to SEEK to come to my home. The main difference being we have to seek God while we are living, it is too late to knock on the door after we have died. Those who dont bother to seek my home will NEVER enter it, how could they? At some point the one trying to come home has to EMBRACE that is the home they want. That is how it works in life and I would expect it to be so after life. |
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God commanded clearly not to kill or steal(which was done to slaves). But many of those killers were convinced that the slaves weren't people. Didn't they decide that slaves didn't have souls, just like animals don't have souls, so its okay to kill them. Yay Bible interpretations! Yet another reason why I question the adequacy of the Bible as a moral guide. It seems like some other religious texts are a little more clear about the importance of compassion for all life. You got to respect those God fearing people who bought slaves, but never stole a slave from someone else. At least they adhered to that Biblical moral doctrine against stealing. Yay! Okay, come on now! Someone ought to bust out the scripture which just makes it so clear to modern Christians that slavery is wrong. Problem is, every culture (geographical, historical) has its own interpretation, and then there are the wing-nuts who are totally convinced that their interpretation is NOT an interpretation, its the 'truth' of what the Bible says. I can only answer by saying that my example is CHRIST , he was very clear about how to treat others and he lived a very clear example of how to live. That some fools twist the example of Christ or the words of God, is the reason God gave us a BRAIN to reason for ourselves. It is a big book with alot of history and alot of lessons but we need to reconcile it with how Jesus lived his life on earth. You do know that "christ" was his title, not his name, don't you? So God gave us a brain so we could "twist the example of Christ or the words of God"? That doesn't seem to be a good thing, now does it. I'm thinking that if this god person wanted us to act w/i a certain framework, he could've been a bit less vague and open to interpretation. Wouldn't that make more sense? |
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God commanded clearly not to kill or steal(which was done to slaves). But many of those killers were convinced that the slaves weren't people. Didn't they decide that slaves didn't have souls, just like animals don't have souls, so its okay to kill them. Yay Bible interpretations! Yet another reason why I question the adequacy of the Bible as a moral guide. It seems like some other religious texts are a little more clear about the importance of compassion for all life. You got to respect those God fearing people who bought slaves, but never stole a slave from someone else. At least they adhered to that Biblical moral doctrine against stealing. Yay! Okay, come on now! Someone ought to bust out the scripture which just makes it so clear to modern Christians that slavery is wrong. Problem is, every culture (geographical, historical) has its own interpretation, and then there are the wing-nuts who are totally convinced that their interpretation is NOT an interpretation, its the 'truth' of what the Bible says. I can only answer by saying that my example is CHRIST , he was very clear about how to treat others and he lived a very clear example of how to live. That some fools twist the example of Christ or the words of God, is the reason God gave us a BRAIN to reason for ourselves. It is a big book with alot of history and alot of lessons but we need to reconcile it with how Jesus lived his life on earth. You do know that "christ" was his title, not his name, don't you? So God gave us a brain so we could "twist the example of Christ or the words of God"? That doesn't seem to be a good thing, now does it. I'm thinking that if this god person wanted us to act w/i a certain framework, he could've been a bit less vague and open to interpretation. Wouldn't that make more sense? I do know Christ was his title, which is probably why I can use the title within this thread with confidence that it is understood who I am writing about. Twisting Gods words is not a good thing, I agree. I am thinking that God inspired the writings of the bible several thousand years ago,,and Jesus also preached at that time. In 2000 years from now, I imagine the things we publish to day may seem a bit 'open to interpretation' as well. I use my conscience and the example of Christ to make things clear. The apostle Paul wrote "Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lusts one toward another, men with men working that which is unseemly . " It didnt say they left the natural use of woman burning in desire for technology or lotions or cremes. It is pretty easy to interpret actually. It just isnt easy to hear or abide by. |
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This is not Christ like, and I am sorry these are the types of experiences you have had. In trying to follow the example of Christ, I do not feel superior to anyone, I feel we all sin and that is mostly what I get the most flack about. I never say that I am better than anyone because I dont believe I am. I do aknowledge wrong from right though, regardless of if I am the transgressor or someone else,, and I get flack for that as well. Actually it is Christ like because it is the practice of Christians. Christianity cannot teach equality because it teaches divisiveness ie "my religion is the one true and right religion", it teaches superiority ie "some humans will go to hell because of what they believe but it won't be me the great Christian", it teaches hypocrisy ie "I am not held responsible for my sins because I go to church on Sunday and get forgiven" Until religions embrace all other religions and non religious as equal and deserving of heaven including all sexual orientations they will be discriminatory and not healthy for humans to follow. This is flawed logic in my opinion. First,Christ like means like Christ, of whom there was only one,, not like any and every one who claims to be christian. I dont believe anyones RELIGION(religious title or affiliation) makes them any better or worse than anyone else. It is how we live our lives that will be judged by God , not what title we give ourself. I also dont believe I know who will go to heaven or who will not, I was taught that only God knows or will decide. I do know the paths that Christ set out for us to follow and I choose that path hoping to reach the destination I seek. I also have never not felt responsible for sin, forgiveness doesnt absolve one of responsibility and I was never taught this either. I embrace religious beliefs, I dont embrace all actions and words anymore than a non religious person does. I dont think it would be healthy to have an everything is fine to do attitude(regardless of religious or non religious affiliation). I do think there are paths to heaven and paths which dont lead to heaven, just as some paths will get me from Las Vegas to Los Angeles and others wont. If I am trying to get to Los Angeles, I just follow those paths,, it doesnt mean I feel better than those trying to get to Arizona, or those trying to get to Los Angeles by way of Indianapolis. I just feel we all choose different paths and they dont all end up at the same destination. so...If a person lives a virtuous life, helps others when he can, ect, but never confesses any belief in a godthing, do you think he gets a pass unto Heaven or not? Noone gets a 'pass'.. it will be up to God. Without God there is no heaven though. Personally, I use the example of my biological dad when trying to understand God. My father had rules in his home, if you didnt abide by them you werent permitted in his home,,it was very simple with him. I will not profess to know with certaintly who will or will not see the Father except that my bible says those who REJECT him(which is different than not knowing him) will certainly not see him. ah...so a good person who rejects God or the idea of a godthing is still screwed. What an ego this God person must have. You know, if an actual person displayed those kinds of attitudes towards their underlings, that person would almost universly be decreed as a tyrant. If an otherwise 'good' person rejects God, that person also rejects heaven(Gods house), makes the choice for themself that they dont want either, and therefore merely gets what they request and are not 'screwed'. If I chose not to let someone in my home based upon them detesting me and my home, that would not be a tyrant,, but a just person. What if the alternative to coming in your home was pain and death for the person who detests you? Would you still refuse entry? but it was not the only alternative,, the alternative is to aknowledge that the pain and suffering is not the better choice and to SEEK to come to my home. The main difference being we have to seek God while we are living, it is too late to knock on the door after we have died. Those who dont bother to seek my home will NEVER enter it, how could they? At some point the one trying to come home has to EMBRACE that is the home they want. That is how it works in life and I would expect it to be so after life. That was not the scenerio I laid out. What I wrote had no "alternatives", no qualifications. Let's try an example. Suppose you live on a hill. A very sturdy hill made of rock. There's a terrible storm and all the land below you is flooding. You hear a knock on your door. It's that a-hole neighbor from down the street whom you know hates your guts. Your choice: Do let him in and give him shelter or do you let him perish in the storm? |
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This is not Christ like, and I am sorry these are the types of experiences you have had. In trying to follow the example of Christ, I do not feel superior to anyone, I feel we all sin and that is mostly what I get the most flack about. I never say that I am better than anyone because I dont believe I am. I do aknowledge wrong from right though, regardless of if I am the transgressor or someone else,, and I get flack for that as well. Actually it is Christ like because it is the practice of Christians. Christianity cannot teach equality because it teaches divisiveness ie "my religion is the one true and right religion", it teaches superiority ie "some humans will go to hell because of what they believe but it won't be me the great Christian", it teaches hypocrisy ie "I am not held responsible for my sins because I go to church on Sunday and get forgiven" Until religions embrace all other religions and non religious as equal and deserving of heaven including all sexual orientations they will be discriminatory and not healthy for humans to follow. This is flawed logic in my opinion. First,Christ like means like Christ, of whom there was only one,, not like any and every one who claims to be christian. I dont believe anyones RELIGION(religious title or affiliation) makes them any better or worse than anyone else. It is how we live our lives that will be judged by God , not what title we give ourself. I also dont believe I know who will go to heaven or who will not, I was taught that only God knows or will decide. I do know the paths that Christ set out for us to follow and I choose that path hoping to reach the destination I seek. I also have never not felt responsible for sin, forgiveness doesnt absolve one of responsibility and I was never taught this either. I embrace religious beliefs, I dont embrace all actions and words anymore than a non religious person does. I dont think it would be healthy to have an everything is fine to do attitude(regardless of religious or non religious affiliation). I do think there are paths to heaven and paths which dont lead to heaven, just as some paths will get me from Las Vegas to Los Angeles and others wont. If I am trying to get to Los Angeles, I just follow those paths,, it doesnt mean I feel better than those trying to get to Arizona, or those trying to get to Los Angeles by way of Indianapolis. I just feel we all choose different paths and they dont all end up at the same destination. so...If a person lives a virtuous life, helps others when he can, ect, but never confesses any belief in a godthing, do you think he gets a pass unto Heaven or not? Noone gets a 'pass'.. it will be up to God. Without God there is no heaven though. Personally, I use the example of my biological dad when trying to understand God. My father had rules in his home, if you didnt abide by them you werent permitted in his home,,it was very simple with him. I will not profess to know with certaintly who will or will not see the Father except that my bible says those who REJECT him(which is different than not knowing him) will certainly not see him. ah...so a good person who rejects God or the idea of a godthing is still screwed. What an ego this God person must have. You know, if an actual person displayed those kinds of attitudes towards their underlings, that person would almost universly be decreed as a tyrant. If an otherwise 'good' person rejects God, that person also rejects heaven(Gods house), makes the choice for themself that they dont want either, and therefore merely gets what they request and are not 'screwed'. If I chose not to let someone in my home based upon them detesting me and my home, that would not be a tyrant,, but a just person. What if the alternative to coming in your home was pain and death for the person who detests you? Would you still refuse entry? but it was not the only alternative,, the alternative is to aknowledge that the pain and suffering is not the better choice and to SEEK to come to my home. The main difference being we have to seek God while we are living, it is too late to knock on the door after we have died. Those who dont bother to seek my home will NEVER enter it, how could they? At some point the one trying to come home has to EMBRACE that is the home they want. That is how it works in life and I would expect it to be so after life. That was not the scenerio I laid out. What I wrote had no "alternatives", no qualifications. Let's try an example. Suppose you live on a hill. A very sturdy hill made of rock. There's a terrible storm and all the land below you is flooding. You hear a knock on your door. It's that a-hole neighbor from down the street whom you know hates your guts. Your choice: Do let him in and give him shelter or do you let him perish in the storm? I apologize for not beign clear. If he KNOCKS on my door, he is ASKING My help and I shall give it to him. This knock in our mortal life equates to acknowledging God and seeking his help. If one never seeks him or refuses to aknowledge him,, just as if that person never knocks on my door or aknowledges me and my home are there,,than THAT person makes the choice to not receive help or enter heaven. |
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Love, forgiveness, spirit, allowing, tolerance, kindness, compassion, empathy...ALL these gifts can be experienced and expressed without religion.
We do not have to be part of one of the big religions to have such things in our lives... Once I was able to dump my childhood religion and lose the salvation theory all together...then I was able to truly experience what spirituality really is. I know there is something bigger than me behind the wheel. It is when I am hiking the mountains, or sitting along the river that I feel a presence of pure love, not in a church building. |
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Love, forgiveness, spirit, allowing, tolerance, kindness, compassion, empathy...ALL these gifts can be experienced and expressed without religion. We do not have to be part of one of the big religions to have such things in our lives... Once I was able to dump my childhood religion and lose the salvation theory all together...then I was able to truly experience what spirituality really is. I know there is something bigger than me behind the wheel. It is when I am hiking the mountains, or sitting along the river that I feel a presence of pure love, not in a church building. I totally agree, organized religion(or religious titles) are no guarantee of entry into heaven and non involvement in organized religion isnt a guarantee of refusal of entry. It isnt the building but the people inside of it. People can lead good lives(like MOST people) without religion. They just do not enter into the kingdom of heaven without Christ. |
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Love, forgiveness, spirit, allowing, tolerance, kindness, compassion, empathy...ALL these gifts can be experienced and expressed without religion. We do not have to be part of one of the big religions to have such things in our lives... Once I was able to dump my childhood religion and lose the salvation theory all together...then I was able to truly experience what spirituality really is. I know there is something bigger than me behind the wheel. It is when I am hiking the mountains, or sitting along the river that I feel a presence of pure love, not in a church building. I totally agree, organized religion(or religious titles) are no guarantee of entry into heaven and non involvement in organized religion isnt a guarantee of refusal of entry. It isnt the building but the people inside of it. People can lead good lives(like MOST people) without religion. They just do not enter into the kingdom of heaven without Christ. Oh, good gawd, give it a rest sister. Who are you to say who gets to enter the kingdom of heaven... it is hardly your decision. I know you really believe you have all the answers, guess what, you only have the answers for yourself! Your like a broken fricking record... a great reminder of why I stopped coming in these threads...and why I'm leaving again! |
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This is not Christ like, and I am sorry these are the types of experiences you have had. In trying to follow the example of Christ, I do not feel superior to anyone, I feel we all sin and that is mostly what I get the most flack about. I never say that I am better than anyone because I dont believe I am. I do aknowledge wrong from right though, regardless of if I am the transgressor or someone else,, and I get flack for that as well. Actually it is Christ like because it is the practice of Christians. Christianity cannot teach equality because it teaches divisiveness ie "my religion is the one true and right religion", it teaches superiority ie "some humans will go to hell because of what they believe but it won't be me the great Christian", it teaches hypocrisy ie "I am not held responsible for my sins because I go to church on Sunday and get forgiven" Until religions embrace all other religions and non religious as equal and deserving of heaven including all sexual orientations they will be discriminatory and not healthy for humans to follow. This is flawed logic in my opinion. First,Christ like means like Christ, of whom there was only one,, not like any and every one who claims to be christian. I dont believe anyones RELIGION(religious title or affiliation) makes them any better or worse than anyone else. It is how we live our lives that will be judged by God , not what title we give ourself. I also dont believe I know who will go to heaven or who will not, I was taught that only God knows or will decide. I do know the paths that Christ set out for us to follow and I choose that path hoping to reach the destination I seek. I also have never not felt responsible for sin, forgiveness doesnt absolve one of responsibility and I was never taught this either. I embrace religious beliefs, I dont embrace all actions and words anymore than a non religious person does. I dont think it would be healthy to have an everything is fine to do attitude(regardless of religious or non religious affiliation). I do think there are paths to heaven and paths which dont lead to heaven, just as some paths will get me from Las Vegas to Los Angeles and others wont. If I am trying to get to Los Angeles, I just follow those paths,, it doesnt mean I feel better than those trying to get to Arizona, or those trying to get to Los Angeles by way of Indianapolis. I just feel we all choose different paths and they dont all end up at the same destination. so...If a person lives a virtuous life, helps others when he can, ect, but never confesses any belief in a godthing, do you think he gets a pass unto Heaven or not? Noone gets a 'pass'.. it will be up to God. Without God there is no heaven though. Personally, I use the example of my biological dad when trying to understand God. My father had rules in his home, if you didnt abide by them you werent permitted in his home,,it was very simple with him. I will not profess to know with certaintly who will or will not see the Father except that my bible says those who REJECT him(which is different than not knowing him) will certainly not see him. ah...so a good person who rejects God or the idea of a godthing is still screwed. What an ego this God person must have. You know, if an actual person displayed those kinds of attitudes towards their underlings, that person would almost universly be decreed as a tyrant. If an otherwise 'good' person rejects God, that person also rejects heaven(Gods house), makes the choice for themself that they dont want either, and therefore merely gets what they request and are not 'screwed'. If I chose not to let someone in my home based upon them detesting me and my home, that would not be a tyrant,, but a just person. What if the alternative to coming in your home was pain and death for the person who detests you? Would you still refuse entry? but it was not the only alternative,, the alternative is to aknowledge that the pain and suffering is not the better choice and to SEEK to come to my home. The main difference being we have to seek God while we are living, it is too late to knock on the door after we have died. Those who dont bother to seek my home will NEVER enter it, how could they? At some point the one trying to come home has to EMBRACE that is the home they want. That is how it works in life and I would expect it to be so after life. That was not the scenerio I laid out. What I wrote had no "alternatives", no qualifications. Let's try an example. Suppose you live on a hill. A very sturdy hill made of rock. There's a terrible storm and all the land below you is flooding. You hear a knock on your door. It's that a-hole neighbor from down the street whom you know hates your guts. Your choice: Do let him in and give him shelter or do you let him perish in the storm? I apologize for not beign clear. If he KNOCKS on my door, he is ASKING My help and I shall give it to him. This knock in our mortal life equates to acknowledging God and seeking his help. If one never seeks him or refuses to aknowledge him,, just as if that person never knocks on my door or aknowledges me and my home are there,,than THAT person makes the choice to not receive help or enter heaven. Ok, that's good. Now let's change it up a little. Suppose you see out your window, this neighbor climbing up the hill. He's struggling against the wind and the rain. Suddenly, he collapses on the ground. He's fallen into a little stream that formed from all the rain coming down the hill. You realize he will drown if you don't help him. Do you help him? Even if he's an a-hole who hates your guts? |
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I know this question is aimed towards msharmony but I would go help him regardless of our feeling towards each other.
and in other respects... I may not get in to heaven but what if, I follow a more open religion where the only requirement is that you live a good loving life. My idea of eternal rest is a place where mistakes are forgiven if you ask (within reason mind you). No strings attached, just a parent welcoming a child home and letting the past go because that's all it is, the past. |
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Love, forgiveness, spirit, allowing, tolerance, kindness, compassion, empathy...ALL these gifts can be experienced and expressed without religion. We do not have to be part of one of the big religions to have such things in our lives... Once I was able to dump my childhood religion and lose the salvation theory all together...then I was able to truly experience what spirituality really is. I know there is something bigger than me behind the wheel. It is when I am hiking the mountains, or sitting along the river that I feel a presence of pure love, not in a church building. I totally agree, organized religion(or religious titles) are no guarantee of entry into heaven and non involvement in organized religion isnt a guarantee of refusal of entry. It isnt the building but the people inside of it. People can lead good lives(like MOST people) without religion. They just do not enter into the kingdom of heaven without Christ. Oh, good gawd, give it a rest sister. Who are you to say who gets to enter the kingdom of heaven... it is hardly your decision. I know you really believe you have all the answers, guess what, you only have the answers for yourself! Your like a broken fricking record... a great reminder of why I stopped coming in these threads...and why I'm leaving again! sorry that you feel this way,, I am sure Jesus would have been called a broken record too so that is ok. It was he who decided noone sees the Father but through him. That is not my judgement that is His direction. I have stated over and over that the decision will be that of The Lord, which is no different than saying noone sees the father Without Christ. It is not mans decision, but that of Christ. I do not have all the answers, but I have been brought up to respect the example and words of Christ. |
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I know this question is aimed towards msharmony but I would go help him regardless of our feeling towards each other. and in other respects... I may not get in to heaven but what if, I follow a more open religion where the only requirement is that you live a good loving life. My idea of eternal rest is a place where mistakes are forgiven if you ask (within reason mind you). No strings attached, just a parent welcoming a child home and letting the past go because that's all it is, the past. On this we agree as well. I am not one who believes that there is any sin(other than flat out rejection of God) which will keep him from welcoming us home if we are respectful of his Word and those of us who know of Christ accept him as saviour and seek his guidance. I believe we are both trying to do just that in this life.( I believe we both fail sometimes too). That is the beauty of forgiveness. Our sins make us equal and makes God love us no less. |
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This is not Christ like, and I am sorry these are the types of experiences you have had. In trying to follow the example of Christ, I do not feel superior to anyone, I feel we all sin and that is mostly what I get the most flack about. I never say that I am better than anyone because I dont believe I am. I do aknowledge wrong from right though, regardless of if I am the transgressor or someone else,, and I get flack for that as well. Actually it is Christ like because it is the practice of Christians. Christianity cannot teach equality because it teaches divisiveness ie "my religion is the one true and right religion", it teaches superiority ie "some humans will go to hell because of what they believe but it won't be me the great Christian", it teaches hypocrisy ie "I am not held responsible for my sins because I go to church on Sunday and get forgiven" Until religions embrace all other religions and non religious as equal and deserving of heaven including all sexual orientations they will be discriminatory and not healthy for humans to follow. This is flawed logic in my opinion. First,Christ like means like Christ, of whom there was only one,, not like any and every one who claims to be christian. I dont believe anyones RELIGION(religious title or affiliation) makes them any better or worse than anyone else. It is how we live our lives that will be judged by God , not what title we give ourself. I also dont believe I know who will go to heaven or who will not, I was taught that only God knows or will decide. I do know the paths that Christ set out for us to follow and I choose that path hoping to reach the destination I seek. I also have never not felt responsible for sin, forgiveness doesnt absolve one of responsibility and I was never taught this either. I embrace religious beliefs, I dont embrace all actions and words anymore than a non religious person does. I dont think it would be healthy to have an everything is fine to do attitude(regardless of religious or non religious affiliation). I do think there are paths to heaven and paths which dont lead to heaven, just as some paths will get me from Las Vegas to Los Angeles and others wont. If I am trying to get to Los Angeles, I just follow those paths,, it doesnt mean I feel better than those trying to get to Arizona, or those trying to get to Los Angeles by way of Indianapolis. I just feel we all choose different paths and they dont all end up at the same destination. so...If a person lives a virtuous life, helps others when he can, ect, but never confesses any belief in a godthing, do you think he gets a pass unto Heaven or not? Noone gets a 'pass'.. it will be up to God. Without God there is no heaven though. Personally, I use the example of my biological dad when trying to understand God. My father had rules in his home, if you didnt abide by them you werent permitted in his home,,it was very simple with him. I will not profess to know with certaintly who will or will not see the Father except that my bible says those who REJECT him(which is different than not knowing him) will certainly not see him. ah...so a good person who rejects God or the idea of a godthing is still screwed. What an ego this God person must have. You know, if an actual person displayed those kinds of attitudes towards their underlings, that person would almost universly be decreed as a tyrant. If an otherwise 'good' person rejects God, that person also rejects heaven(Gods house), makes the choice for themself that they dont want either, and therefore merely gets what they request and are not 'screwed'. If I chose not to let someone in my home based upon them detesting me and my home, that would not be a tyrant,, but a just person. What if the alternative to coming in your home was pain and death for the person who detests you? Would you still refuse entry? but it was not the only alternative,, the alternative is to aknowledge that the pain and suffering is not the better choice and to SEEK to come to my home. The main difference being we have to seek God while we are living, it is too late to knock on the door after we have died. Those who dont bother to seek my home will NEVER enter it, how could they? At some point the one trying to come home has to EMBRACE that is the home they want. That is how it works in life and I would expect it to be so after life. That was not the scenerio I laid out. What I wrote had no "alternatives", no qualifications. Let's try an example. Suppose you live on a hill. A very sturdy hill made of rock. There's a terrible storm and all the land below you is flooding. You hear a knock on your door. It's that a-hole neighbor from down the street whom you know hates your guts. Your choice: Do let him in and give him shelter or do you let him perish in the storm? I apologize for not beign clear. If he KNOCKS on my door, he is ASKING My help and I shall give it to him. This knock in our mortal life equates to acknowledging God and seeking his help. If one never seeks him or refuses to aknowledge him,, just as if that person never knocks on my door or aknowledges me and my home are there,,than THAT person makes the choice to not receive help or enter heaven. Ok, that's good. Now let's change it up a little. Suppose you see out your window, this neighbor climbing up the hill. He's struggling against the wind and the rain. Suddenly, he collapses on the ground. He's fallen into a little stream that formed from all the rain coming down the hill. You realize he will drown if you don't help him. Do you help him? Even if he's an a-hole who hates your guts? Here is the difference in my eyes,,,if all that was necessary for us to receive help would be to NEED help, what would be his purpose? What would be the purpose of believing in him or calling on him, if he was going to intervene REGARDLESS. You seem to think it a heartless thing, but I see it as his promise to allow us to go through our own trials and tribulations , to get stronger, and to come to him. People view the alternative to heaven as a horrid thing, and perhaps it is. But if it is our choice and we also have the fair and balanced choice of eternal paradise,,, I see this as the sign of a wondrous God. Many believe we have done nothing so bad as to deserve eternal damnation but the flip side is that we have done nothing so good on this earth as to actually DESERVE eternal paradise. He is blessed enough to welcome us if we only call on him(not such a difficult thing at all really). |
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This is not Christ like, and I am sorry these are the types of experiences you have had. In trying to follow the example of Christ, I do not feel superior to anyone, I feel we all sin and that is mostly what I get the most flack about. I never say that I am better than anyone because I dont believe I am. I do aknowledge wrong from right though, regardless of if I am the transgressor or someone else,, and I get flack for that as well. Actually it is Christ like because it is the practice of Christians. Christianity cannot teach equality because it teaches divisiveness ie "my religion is the one true and right religion", it teaches superiority ie "some humans will go to hell because of what they believe but it won't be me the great Christian", it teaches hypocrisy ie "I am not held responsible for my sins because I go to church on Sunday and get forgiven" Until religions embrace all other religions and non religious as equal and deserving of heaven including all sexual orientations they will be discriminatory and not healthy for humans to follow. This is flawed logic in my opinion. First,Christ like means like Christ, of whom there was only one,, not like any and every one who claims to be christian. I dont believe anyones RELIGION(religious title or affiliation) makes them any better or worse than anyone else. It is how we live our lives that will be judged by God , not what title we give ourself. I also dont believe I know who will go to heaven or who will not, I was taught that only God knows or will decide. I do know the paths that Christ set out for us to follow and I choose that path hoping to reach the destination I seek. I also have never not felt responsible for sin, forgiveness doesnt absolve one of responsibility and I was never taught this either. I embrace religious beliefs, I dont embrace all actions and words anymore than a non religious person does. I dont think it would be healthy to have an everything is fine to do attitude(regardless of religious or non religious affiliation). I do think there are paths to heaven and paths which dont lead to heaven, just as some paths will get me from Las Vegas to Los Angeles and others wont. If I am trying to get to Los Angeles, I just follow those paths,, it doesnt mean I feel better than those trying to get to Arizona, or those trying to get to Los Angeles by way of Indianapolis. I just feel we all choose different paths and they dont all end up at the same destination. so...If a person lives a virtuous life, helps others when he can, ect, but never confesses any belief in a godthing, do you think he gets a pass unto Heaven or not? Noone gets a 'pass'.. it will be up to God. Without God there is no heaven though. Personally, I use the example of my biological dad when trying to understand God. My father had rules in his home, if you didnt abide by them you werent permitted in his home,,it was very simple with him. I will not profess to know with certaintly who will or will not see the Father except that my bible says those who REJECT him(which is different than not knowing him) will certainly not see him. ah...so a good person who rejects God or the idea of a godthing is still screwed. What an ego this God person must have. You know, if an actual person displayed those kinds of attitudes towards their underlings, that person would almost universly be decreed as a tyrant. If an otherwise 'good' person rejects God, that person also rejects heaven(Gods house), makes the choice for themself that they dont want either, and therefore merely gets what they request and are not 'screwed'. If I chose not to let someone in my home based upon them detesting me and my home, that would not be a tyrant,, but a just person. What if the alternative to coming in your home was pain and death for the person who detests you? Would you still refuse entry? but it was not the only alternative,, the alternative is to aknowledge that the pain and suffering is not the better choice and to SEEK to come to my home. The main difference being we have to seek God while we are living, it is too late to knock on the door after we have died. Those who dont bother to seek my home will NEVER enter it, how could they? At some point the one trying to come home has to EMBRACE that is the home they want. That is how it works in life and I would expect it to be so after life. That was not the scenerio I laid out. What I wrote had no "alternatives", no qualifications. Let's try an example. Suppose you live on a hill. A very sturdy hill made of rock. There's a terrible storm and all the land below you is flooding. You hear a knock on your door. It's that a-hole neighbor from down the street whom you know hates your guts. Your choice: Do let him in and give him shelter or do you let him perish in the storm? I apologize for not beign clear. If he KNOCKS on my door, he is ASKING My help and I shall give it to him. This knock in our mortal life equates to acknowledging God and seeking his help. If one never seeks him or refuses to aknowledge him,, just as if that person never knocks on my door or aknowledges me and my home are there,,than THAT person makes the choice to not receive help or enter heaven. Ok, that's good. Now let's change it up a little. Suppose you see out your window, this neighbor climbing up the hill. He's struggling against the wind and the rain. Suddenly, he collapses on the ground. He's fallen into a little stream that formed from all the rain coming down the hill. You realize he will drown if you don't help him. Do you help him? Even if he's an a-hole who hates your guts? In trying logical reasoning with some people you might as well just ask: If an eletric train is going west which way is the smoke from the smokestack heading?...or better yet if a plane crashes on the US/Candian border which country do you bury the survivers in? Dude...some people are just a waste of time. |
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and i thought we had some crazy debates at our mosque
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