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Topic: Religion Endangers Humanity And Its Future
yellowrose10's photo
Tue 01/19/10 09:13 PM
ohwell

Dragoness's photo
Tue 01/19/10 09:15 PM
To get back to the OP.

Some horrible things happen to this day in the name of religion.

The extremists in any religion are dangerous to innocent people.

Religions are designed to create the divisism and delusion that causes people's minds to not think straight. If a person feels they are acting in the name of a god they feel really really right when they are really really wrong. It is just dangerous.

To believe other humans deserve to suffer in this life or any later one because they do not believe the same as you is a sick idea in the first place.

Dragoness's photo
Tue 01/19/10 09:19 PM



so our forefathers didn't mean religion?

so the definition of religion doesn't apply to Atheists, but the words in the 1st amendment don't apply because it wasn't meant that way?


No

Atheism isn't a religion so it doesn't need protection under the religion clause.

All atheist need is the right to assemble. People have the right to assemble just because they want to. They have the right to assemble in protest on the streets if they want and it is not under the religion clause that they get this right.

Atheists outside of prison do not need the first ammendment because they are not a religion.

Atheist get to assemble just because they are people who assemble which is a right somewhere else in the bill of rights.


then the supreme court wasn't needed to rule. Since he was in prison, he should have complied with the prisons rules and not fought it?


Special circumstances were applied because of the prison situation but in the outside world religious protection is not needed for
Atheist they can assemble til their hearts get tired of it without the first ammendment.

Atheists do not need the first ammendment since they are not a religion.

Atheist get to assemble and chat anytime they want without worrying about any religious rules or regs. They are not a religion.


EquusDancer's photo
Tue 01/19/10 09:19 PM


athesists can be extremists oh heavens yes. that was what the :dark ages: was all about.



Explain this, with references as to how the Atheists were responsible for the dark ages, please.

Considering much of it was the Church, and a fair amount was the ongoing wars with the Muslims (Crusades) and a mini ice age, I'm curious as to where the atheists were involved at?!!!

Eljay's photo
Tue 01/19/10 09:51 PM
Edited by Eljay on Tue 01/19/10 09:51 PM

blaming religion for atrocities committed is the same as blaming the Y chromosome for it. Stalin committed atrocities...what was his excuse?




All of Stalin's atrocities can be blamed on religion.

His religion was Evolution.

Eljay's photo
Tue 01/19/10 09:53 PM



and also, do me a favor,

look at this

www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
the first movie is movie on the right. the second one on the left. it shows you a better understanding. when you watch it reply and tell me wha tyou think.


old news



References to "Zeitgeist: The Movie" in the mainstream media are relatively few and mostly negative. "Zeitgeist Addendum" has mostly been ignored. As far as "the Movie", commonly the film’s factual accuracy has been challenged. A review in the Irish Times entitled “Zeitgeist: the Nonsense” wrote that “these are surreal perversions of genuine issues and debates, and they tarnish all criticism of faith, the Bush administration and globalization—there are more than enough factual injustices in this world to be going around without having to invent fictional ones."[22] Skeptic magazine's Tim Callahan criticizes the first part of the film on the origins of Christianity:

Some of what it asserts is true. Unfortunately, this material is liberally—and sloppily—mixed with material that is only partially true and much that is plainly and simply bogus. […] Zeitgeist is The Da Vinci Code on steroids.[23]

Other reviews assert that it is "conspiracy crap",[24] “based solely on anecdotal evidence” and “fiction couched in a few facts”,[25] or disparaging reference is made to its part in "the 9/11 truth movement.[14]

Academic coverage of Zeitgeist has also been sparse, mainly lumping the movie in with other conspiracy movies, although at least one academic has made a more detailed (and highly critical) analysis of the scholarship (see below). Again, the coverage has been largely negative, and typically treated as part of a contemporary phenomenon of “truth” movies. According to Scientific American

“The postmodernist belief in the relativism of truth, coupled to the clicker culture of mass media where attention spans are measured in New York minutes, leaves us with a bewildering array of truth claims packaged in infotainment units. It must be true—I saw it on television, at the movies, on the Internet, The Twilight Zone, The Outer Limits, That's Incredible, The Sixth Sense, Poltergeist, Loose Change, Zeitgeist the Movie.”[26]

A more severe overall treatment is given by Jane Chapman, a film producer and reader in media studies at the University of Lincoln, who analyzes Zeitgeist (“A fast-paced assemblage of agitprop”) as an example of unethical film-making.[27] She accuses Joseph of deceit through the use of unsourced and unreferenced assertions, and standard film-making propaganda techniques. While parts of the film are, she says, “comically” self-defeating, the nature of “twisted evidence” and the false attribution of Madrid bomb footage as being in London (which she calls a “lie”) amount to ethical abuse in sourcing (in later versions of the movie, a subtitle is added to this footage identifying it as from the Madrid bombings). She finishes her analysis with the comment:

Thus legitimate questions about what happened on 9/11, and about corruption in religious and financial organizations, are all undermined by the film’s determined effort to maximize an emotional response at the expense of reasoned argument.

Dr Chris Forbes, Senior lecturer in Ancient History of Macquarie University and member of the Synod of the Diocese of Sydney, has severely criticized Part I of the movie as having no basis in serious scholarship or ancient sources, relying on amateur sources that "borrow ideas from each other, and who recycle the same silly stuff" and "not a single serious source" can be found in official reference lists attached to the movie.[28] Of the film he says "It is extraordinary how many claims it makes which are simply not true."[28]

Forbes claims there is no evidence in Egyptian sources saying that Horus' mother Isis was a virgin. Similarly, neither Krishna (the eighth son), Dionysus (whose mother had slept with Zeus) nor Attis were ever supposed born of virgins. He points out that "son" and "sun" are not homophonic words in either Latin, Ancient Egyptian, or Greek, and therefore no such misunderstanding would occur; that the December 25 birth is not part of any of the myths—including that of Jesus, for whom Christmas Day was appointed as a festival day in open knowledge that the real date was not known.

Dr. Forbes also criticizes the movie's use of Roman sources to suggest that Jesus didn't exist, noting that a long list flashed across the screen of supposed contemporary historians that did not mention Jesus is actually comprised of geographers, gardening writers, poets and philosophers, who should not be expected to mention him. The allegation that Josephus' mention of Jesus was added later is criticized as misleading. Josephus actually mentions Jesus twice, with only one reference believed by scholars to have been doctored in the Middle Ages but to change an already existing mention of him. He also argues that the film misrepresents Constantine when it presents him as making Christianity compulsory (when he only legalized it) and inventing the historical Jesus (when early church records show that the historicity of Jesus had been a key element of faith from early on).

-wiki


i see the point here, but just because he hasnt found any doesnt mean that its not true. I actually researched it and found many things in the movie to be true. and even so, its pretty obvious that he didnt just make the things up. he had to get the information from somewhere. I found everything that I was looking up and have the evidence for it. I can provide the links and everything.

and I always tell people about "self preservation" meaning you cant go to the bible to prove that things were true. its made to self preserve itself.
there is no prove that states jesuses existance. None what so ever. Any one that wrote about jesus Never met him. plus not even using the zeitgeist for back up, but if you look it up, there are many gods that were or came before jesus and many of the attributes are the same.


How refreshing it is to see that you don't let facts influence your posts. Just toss anything out there. Why not.

Eljay's photo
Tue 01/19/10 09:56 PM


blaming religion for atrocities committed is the same as blaming the Y chromosome for it. Stalin committed atrocities...what was his excuse?




Stalin like Hitler both entered into the seminary


Then denounced their Catholicism in favor of the new religion of darwin. Today - it's known as Evolution.

Eljay's photo
Tue 01/19/10 09:59 PM

His religion is one of the things I held against Obama but he was still a better choice than McCain.


How so?

Because he won the Nobel peace prize for - what was it - something he MIGHT do?

Eljay's photo
Tue 01/19/10 10:01 PM


The Supreme Court ruled that Atheism is a religion as well. Atheists have a belief that they follow as well as churches.




They only did that for a purpose during a trial.

It still doesn't classify as a religion.


What?????

frustrated

What have you been smokin

Dragoness's photo
Tue 01/19/10 10:02 PM


His religion is one of the things I held against Obama but he was still a better choice than McCain.


How so?

Because he won the Nobel peace prize for - what was it - something he MIGHT do?


Religion or believing in one can be a bad mark against someone in power. Because they will make choices based on the philosophy of the religion making them possibly very dangerous.

Eljay's photo
Tue 01/19/10 10:05 PM



They only did that for a purpose during a trial.

It still doesn't classify as a religion.


You have to define "religion". For example, do you consider Buddhism a religion?



Religion is any belief in a deity or deities of unknown or unseen origin that has a book or set of doctrines that determine actions for the practitioners.

Atheism by definition is not that.


Assuming of course that you are the standard by which we define religion.

no photo
Tue 01/19/10 10:07 PM
all in all. the reality.
god was invented to explain mystery.... when you finally discover how something works, you dont need him anymore. but you need him for the other mysteries. so therefore you leave him to create the universe because we havent figured that out yet. and to explain consciousness...stuff like that.

I think its much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which MIGHT be wrong. I dont feel frightened by being lost in a universe without any purpose, which is the way it really is as far as I can tell

Dragoness's photo
Tue 01/19/10 10:09 PM



The Supreme Court ruled that Atheism is a religion as well. Atheists have a belief that they follow as well as churches.




They only did that for a purpose during a trial.

It still doesn't classify as a religion.


What?????

frustrated

What have you been smokin


Atheism is not a religion it is a logic.

Eljay's photo
Tue 01/19/10 10:11 PM

I was under the impression that Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a God.

You cannot have a belief that something does not exist. That is like a double negative. laugh laugh

Its just a disagreement with the people who do believe in God.

One person says: I believe in God.
The other persons says: I don't believe.

Not believing is not a "belief."




But you are assuming that an Atheist is without belief - however this is not true. The religion of most - if not all atheists is Secular Humanism, and if not that - it's Uniformalism. Just because a "God" isn't involved, or believed in - does not mean there isn't a "religion" present.


Personally - I don't think any man is a God - especially his own. Does that make me an Atheist in terms of secular humanism? Does that now mean I am without religion and immune to the curse of the OP?

Seems to me - the issue here is one of semantics and definition. And as with all posts where any personal definiton of the terms will do - this will go on for about 50 pages - if it doesn't get locked before then.

DaveyB's photo
Tue 01/19/10 10:13 PM

Special circumstances were applied because of the prison situation


I'm sorry, you're saying the supreme court felt criminals needed to be given special consideration and protection? I find that just a bit hard to swallow.

Dragoness's photo
Tue 01/19/10 10:17 PM


Special circumstances were applied because of the prison situation


I'm sorry, you're saying the supreme court felt criminals needed to be given special consideration and protection? I find that just a bit hard to swallow.


If you read the case, that is what happened. I read it because I could not understand how anyone would classify Atheism as a religion. In order to be fair in the prison they had to make it a religion. Prisoners get to go to church and church functions that unreligious will not get to attend. So the prisoner wanted the same amount of time as the other prisoners out of the cell and such.

So atheism became a religion and they get to assemble and spend the same amount of time doing such as the religious do now.

It works out as fair in the end. Religious should not have more priviledges than the non

Eljay's photo
Tue 01/19/10 10:18 PM
Edited by Eljay on Tue 01/19/10 10:25 PM



His religion is one of the things I held against Obama but he was still a better choice than McCain.


How so?

Because he won the Nobel peace prize for - what was it - something he MIGHT do?


Religion or believing in one can be a bad mark against someone in power. Because they will make choices based on the philosophy of the religion making them possibly very dangerous.


But that goes to the incapabability of an individual to make sound judgements - not to the core of religious philosophy. If I have a corrupt leader using religion to support a subverted agenda, and I mix that with someone devoid of sound discernment of what is right or wrong - the issue is not one of religion - but of human nature.

Eljay's photo
Tue 01/19/10 10:23 PM

all in all. the reality.
god was invented to explain mystery.... when you finally discover how something works, you dont need him anymore. but you need him for the other mysteries. so therefore you leave him to create the universe because we havent figured that out yet. and to explain consciousness...stuff like that.

I think its much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which MIGHT be wrong. I dont feel frightened by being lost in a universe without any purpose, which is the way it really is as far as I can tell


Yet you seen quite convinced to dismiss the possible actuality of God, and you do this by your own measure of intelligence - which you have just claimed is lived with the comfort of NOT knowing.

Surely - even you can see the absurdity of this logic. By your own post - we should dismiss your opinion right away, thus considering the reality of God the better idea.

Dragoness's photo
Tue 01/19/10 10:23 PM




His religion is one of the things I held against Obama but he was still a better choice than McCain.


How so?

Because he won the Nobel peace prize for - what was it - something he MIGHT do?


Religion or believing in one can be a bad mark against someone in power. Because they will make choices based on the philosophy of the religion making them possibly very dangerous.


But that goes to the incapabability of an individual to make sound judgements - not to the core of religious philosophy. If I have a corrupt leader using religion to support a subverted agenda, and I mix that with someone devoid of sound discernmet of what is right or wrong - the issue is not one of religion - but of human nature.


Considering that religion encourages divisiveness, superiority, hypocrisy, I will disagree that it is just a human nature problem. Religion encourages wishing bad on humans who do not believe as you do. Religion encourages less self responsibility. To name a few of the issues with religion. Then add a position of power to all of those issues that religion has and you are asking for trouble.

Until the religious can realize they are the same as all other people in the world regardless to belief with no special priviledges with god and no special treatment when they die and no superior morality or superior judgements, they should not be trusted in places of power.

Eljay's photo
Tue 01/19/10 10:24 PM




The Supreme Court ruled that Atheism is a religion as well. Atheists have a belief that they follow as well as churches.




They only did that for a purpose during a trial.

It still doesn't classify as a religion.


What?????

frustrated

What have you been smokin


Atheism is not a religion it is a logic.


Say's who?

Are you the authority on this? What do you mean by "logic"?

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