Let's be real here for a second, what religion is constantly talked about when it comes to this issue of gays and that of exclusivity in the United states? Christianity and you know that. More than any other religion, hell they don't have to say anything, many christians are loud enough and powerful enough to say if for them.

Lynann was pointing out the exclusivity down through history and
'those who now claim to be on Christian higher moral ground' that is not generalizing, it's picking up on people who use their value system against others.

I would have left out the bible thumphing stepford wifes but she did have a point by using that. I wasn't all that disturbed concidering it was mild compared to the things I have heard come out of some christians. So I didn't focus on it.

She did not say that those things were christian organizations. That is all I am saying. You read things into it that she did not say.

Christians are the most vocal about this issue, you know that, so why take it personal if you don't share the Right's views? I already know how you feel about gay marriage, I have no reason to doubt you, but you are in the minority among christians.

boo..and you didn't read into things fanta said???? you personalized it like i did.

but i have seen many threads like this....so it's not just based on one topic.

as far as what religion does what....i am open minded enough to know the good and bad in religion of all kinds....but i won't be lumped in with that. there are MANY christians that think like me

Who's fighting? We just both saw something different in one post, just clarifying what was actually there. Though we still might not see it the same way in the end.

Hey I won't say I have never read into things, because I have on occasion it's a battle to try to keep up with all the posts and not do that now and then, but with Fanta, it's pretty clear how he feels.

But now you are generalizing about religions being good or bad, we are specifically talking about christianity because it Is the most vocal. I can't remember the last time I heard another religion so vocal on one specific topic. I agree there are many that think about gay marriage as you do, I am grateful for that, but you do realize you are in the minority on that right?

and in the end...we usually agree to disagree...then start fresh again

no...i said i know that there is good AND bad....in everything. we were talking about religions.

but as how you felt with fanta....that's how i felt with the OP....and many others agreed as well so I wasn't the only one.

maybe i am in the minority as far as christians go...that's fine with me. i march to the beat of my own drummer. and those that i know that agree with me are in that minority too...that's fine.

and i won't hestitate to call a christian out and even use scripture to do so. just as i would call anyone out about things that i believe are wrong and use whatever sources i need to

i also didn't realize that THOSE christians were responsible for prized territory they carved out

the origins of pageants and sports date back farther and weren't done by christians. and as for tv etc....it's was main stream america here that did that....not just those christians. it's not one group in particular

the greatest no generalization is no label for self at all???

a label for self is and was the greatest perpetuation and creation of the beginning of the 'they' in all human perception???

when oneself is not 'any' label, it is free to love all as it first wished before hearing a belief, and become as one with all, which is to be wrapped in all love and peace that exist within all humanity for an eternity???

what that despise other's so itself can spend a day in heaven, versus eternity in hell, never find heaven at all, as heaven is only loving other's without labels???

peace

davidben...i have called myself that for clarification purposes...and that is what i am. i have no problem calling myself that



boo...can you explain what you meant about this??? i'm not sure i understood you

'If you don't believe' makes those places christian organizations?

Well let's just agree to disagree. I would suggest that Lynann clarify because I still do not get what you did out of her post. I saw that she was speaking of exclusivity not who originated the clubs or organizations themselves. It's clear she was referring to christian exclusivity but not generalizing that all christians feel the same. Her anger at the attitudes of 'SOME' christians was apparent. I have to admit that myself.

This should make it pretty clear the the bible has the same difficulty, people interpret it diffently and because of that for centuries gays have had to pay a price for that interpretation.

It didn't just influence christians, it influenced non-religious and other religions that use the bible as it's base.

http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/viewarticle.php?selectedarticle=2008.12.19.001.pdart

Why Marriage is Inherently Heterosexual
by Patrick Lee
December 19, 2008

A recent story in Newsweek claimed that the only reasons for opposing same-sex “marriage” are religious. But there are powerful arguments for marriage rooted not in faith but in reason.
**********************

You can read his arguments if you like. See link above

well of course people interprete the Bible different. that's why i have problems wih other christians as well. that's why there are so many different churches. matter of interpretation...just like here

I guess, I'll never understand how women debate or argue things.

LOL

personally i think it never should have been a question of who can marry as long as they are consenting adults



willing...we do it to keep the men confused

Oh ya, I think that was what you were talking about in the title? I was saying that that part in the title was about exclusivity, and that didn't make the origin of those clubs or orgainizations christian.

We can agree that she was referring to Christianity and most posts about this subject do tend to end up in a discussion about christian beliefs as related to gays. It's rarely about another religion.

I grew up christian so I am pretty familiar with how gays have been treated by christianity. It's rare when you come across christians that don't have a problem with it and won't be all too happy to voice their attitudes with it. I wish it were different, but we realy are still a very young nation and growing up is slow and tedious.

i will never say some christians are good by ANY means or are doing right. but some do. i don't celebrate holidays as religious ones because not only do i know the origins of them but i don't believe that is how it should be celebrated in my beliefs and can back it up with christians that tell me i'm worng. i don't like organized religion either. there are some great churches but there are some that use it for their own agendas too.

i can see he good and bad in all catagories

willing...keeping the men confused is part of a the women's master plan

Like I am going to believe a bunch of garbage from the mouth of the liberal magaizine like newsweek?Of course they are going to say that.But I challenge you once again to look at the other countries of the world on their views on gays.I keep brining up China many times since they are Aethist and there is no support what so ever for gays in that country.How many people are in that country?Over a billion?Look at Africa.Many of those people could care less about religion.Being gay in that country is a crime and could get you executed.All over the world it is the same story.So blaming the Christians is senseless and pointless since people both religious and non religious agree on this issue overwealminly all over this issue.Christianity aside no other religions accept this type of behaviour either.So if you are going to lump all the religions together on this issue you are going to have at least 90% of the world against gays.The rest of the 10% will probably not be very supportive either.As a matter of fact the only people who seem to support this issue is the gays themselves.

I think it's painfully obvious there are certain members here who hate Chrisitans more than they hate anything else on this earth.It's not like we can't read between the lines here people.

Also flip flopping on your beliefs just because it may make you look like racist only worsens your cause.I respect people alot more when they can give a constant answer they trully belive in instead of yaking a bunch of filler to please the masses.