and refutations:

first: those who believe, do you think or have you been taught or read and believe that you come back time after time as a human or do you believe you can also come back as a lower life form[bug, animal, etc..]?

I guess no one believes since there are no answers....

i have read and heard a lot of theories that make sense..but i don't know if i believe...

Based on my picture, I don't believe, I'm immortal..

I guess you could say that I believe in reincarnation. But my definition is somewhat different from most other ideas I've heard about it.

The concept of "coming back" implies a leaving and returning to a location. I don't look at it that way. I look at it more like exiting a vessel or vehicle and entering a different vessel or vehicle.

But I don't believe that there are any rules or regulations that specify what that vessel must be. I believe it could be a human body, or an animal body, or even a plant or an inanimate object.

Wow, nice question, I wrote this in a poetry challenge today on multiply,
the challenge was to write a poem to the phrase,
a long process,

lol
and this is what I wrote,

Life-A long process

Death-An even longer process if you don't get most of life right the first time around.

Rebirth-Here we go again!

I would go even further and say that we get to choose in which way we come back

Hebrews 9:27

" It is APPOINTED unto men ONCE to DIE, but after this the JUDGMENT."


http://www.gotquestions.org/reincarnation.html

Ultimately, I would have to agree with that. Although I know that I sometimes do things "unconsciously" - without thinking about them - and I'm not sure that wouldn't also apply to such a choice.

But as I said, ultimately, there had to be a self-determined choice at some point.

Three of my friends who are wiccans would have a feild day with this question, however, I on the otherhand have to say, this sort of thing, maybe a psychological issue, not necessarily a real one. However, everyone has an idea or a rumor to spread about this one, and so I would say, to each his or her own. I say I believe neither yay nor nay. It is what it is. smiles

once the vessel becomes to weak, the soul would wish to move onwards to a knew vessel...my thoughts are that the soul is trying to evolve and grow as much as it can, and it may have repeatedly lived inside different vessels a countless amount of times...

I'm not exactly sure, if I believe this is what really happens, but I'm open to many possibilities that "make sense". Where was I before this? Where am I after this? and Where am I really at right now?

I also believe that the human soul...is actually unaware of this due to the human conditioned life we're living...we're living in a manner that doesn't allow us to solely focus on spiritual growth in balance with technology....I think once a link is established between mind and soul, that's when existence becomes interesting, and when life is being lived the right way...the soul is the only external drive to take over the preset functions in the brain that don't allow a human to do certain things [just my belief]...external becomes internal, and intertwine.

contradicting thoughts also arise...if a soul is "recycled" and reincarnated in another vessel..that means the same souls have been around for quite some time...but as noted the human race has been growing for quite some time...where did these "fresh" souls originate from?

if the answer was as simple as reading it in some book...we wouldn't be living life this way...although the human existence and the way a human carries out it's life is purely done on belief of matters...

the only value a dollar bill has....is the value you "believe" it has....or...moreover....the value you've been "forced" to believe it holds....I'm sure most people if not all...can say they feel slave to the dollar bill that ultimately runs their lives...it's been instilled in humans, that it is "needed" to survive...

That is one of the thorniest question of all.

One explantion is that none of the souls are actually "new". They have all been around all this time. It's just that there have only been so many "vessels" available.

And the rules of the game seem to be that the maximum occupancy for a single vessel is 1.

Hmmmm...what to 'come back as'.... decisions, decisions....

Is it possible to be reincarnated as a dog, etc?

On the wheel of dharma, yes, if you so believe that religion...if you pass through the pearly gates?...no, if that's your religion...

I find the thought that all things are energy, with a vibrational field... is one that sits well with me..as pure energy, vibrating at the level of 'human'... it feels very possible to vibrate at a higher level, as energy, and come back as a tree, or a butterfly, or a cow, etc.

how bout a buttercow? - or flytree?

if you can come back as anything why dos no one come back as something different than what is here as usual? if your going to invent a new vibrational life yourself, why not a chocolate centaur, or or a ruby horned pegasus? if your going to imagine then imagine - low - since you control the vibrations that lead to what you can be - why stop with the ordinary?

sorry i dont buy it.

This brings up the whole issue of - "why, if were able to re-incarnate and come back here, why should we choose to came back as no more intelligent or wise than we were before?

Do we have the ability to choose what we will be as some say here? Then why choose to be someone or something that will insure our failure to get out of the recycling program?

Again if we can choose to NOT be recycled, why would we choose to do so time and again? Whats the point? are their those here that actually like the struggles of this life?

Or do you always know you'll come back and be rich or famous and wont suffer the moral and ethical and emotional issues each time? Is this really fun for you? enjoyable?

how many billions of years has this recycling program been going on? And yet those who believe have not opted out yet? C'mon!!

Why doesnt anyone reincarnate as Buddha, why doesn't ""everyone"" reincarnate as Buddha if that is the goal to be reached?

Do you choose to learn infinitely slow? WHY?

if you have the choice to do or not do this as to time frame - meaning you can choose when you will be re-incarnated - why not choose a time way in the future, where maybe all this pettiness and disease and war and other religion etc., ad nauseum is done away with? why such a hurry to re-enter into the same basic situation over and over again?

JB says you have the free will to do whatever in the higher planes - so why choose to do it back to back, knowing what is most likely in store - another re-incarnation? It's said you keep learning and that is the point, i say if your learning it must not be the right things else it would not continue for millenia after millenia. i don't see that as learning i see that as entities not seeing the forest for the trees.

All it says to me is that which Einstein said, "there are only two infinite things - the universe and mans stupidity - and I'm not sure about the universe."

My guess is that we come here to learn (as if on assignment) with no attachment to earthly status... Attachment occurs after we are physically manifested. Additionally, it could be possible that we come to this existence to experience a myriad of variations of the human/physical "condition" (sounds as if it could be a disease ) to gain complete understanding of the physical realm.



Is it considered "failure" from the non-physical "perspective"? Perhaps the concept of failure isn't even conjured. What need would there be for attachment to "success"?



From a non-physical perspective and a completely different experience of time, perhaps what you and I consider struggles are more like a sneeze. No attachment to these earthly ideas of good and bad.



Somehow, I think that, the less material "gain" and more emotional challenges, the greater the learning. Perhaps on "the other side", a more "difficult" life is perceived as quite valuable.

Or...

Perhaps I'm just trying to make myself feel better about my current life situations.

After-all, what would be the point of the idea of the meek inheriting the earth?




With all due respect...
...and I figure its a rhetorical question...

What celestial being not bound by the restraints of time is really gonna care?



What if we ALL reincarnate as Buddha, but are blinded to it while in our human experience?



Perhaps it seems infinitely slow while in this physical realm.

Think of it this way...

...Remember back in grade school, when it was maybe 15 minutes before the last bell of the school-year and just about to become summer vacation? Remember looking at the second hand on that Seth Thomas?

How long did those last 15 minutes seem?

Time is relative, isn't it?



Perhaps we're not meant to know while in the physical existence so we can focus on what's in front of us.



Perhaps we're the ones not seeing the forest for the trees... Just for the time that we're here in the Physical, while time seems slowed down to a snail's pace.



Einstein had some interesting ideas on the relativity of time.

HI SL- answer me this please -

If as Buddhist believe - that if you step on a bug you have earned bad karma that will end up having you to re-incarnate again, how do you suppose anyone will ever escape the cycle?

again - if as a child, you do something that would inflict this state of bad karma on you before you reach the age of reason or understanding - how can you escape the recycling program?

What is it that Buddha learned that we seem not to be able to?

if he tells what it is he learned then why do you/they/whomever not just follow in his footsteps and stop the program from re-occurring?

How does anyone know if they have been reincarnated, what evidence is there?

here again, i see it as no more than another man made religion - sorry

Faith based belief in something not tangible.

all you posted and answered as you yourself said - "guesses.


JB talks of trillions of souls just biting at the bit to get a chance to come here and play the earth game of life - are all these entities then so bored that this is better than where they are?


if so then it sounds like hell to me not some release from rebirth like Buddha's nirvana is supposed to be. give me your definition of this nirvana please, [you to if you read this JB] - what is this ultimate nirvana that all can reach by playing life here on earth?

bottom line - if all spirits are so desirous of playing here can you, when there, opt out of existence with your "free will"? what are the rules since you know so much about it to respond to me the way you have?

i don't like playing games unless someone explains the rules - or do we just make them up as we go? if so then my rules is for it all to stop!!

Who says one does not return to human form wiser?

How can you be so sure?

Where did your absolutes come from?

I see a much more soul centric evolution occurring... I see many many many young children, and young people much more highly evolved than my generation, or even my predecessors generation.

I suspect it IS possible to return to this existance with a higher innate wisdom, and a memory of before.

Personally, I think that "good" and "bad" karma is a man-made concept. People ask me if I'm Buddhist when I express my opposition to stepping on a bug. For me, it has nothing to do with any concern of some sort of tally of what I've done bad or good and some long-term outcome or judgment of all of my actions this time around and even other times around.

I consider each living being (be it bug, deer or human) a piece of the whole picture. Is this indicative of some fear of altering that "whole picture"? Is this what prompts me to protect? At least at this point, I don't think so. Is it that, when I was young, I had loved ones very close to me die and that I now place extra value on all things living? Maybe... Is it that today I am the sum of all of my experiences? Sure...

This cycle you speak of is but one interpretation out of countless interpretations. Can we escape interpretation? As humans, perhaps we are coming closer to a time of less interpretation based on human conscious thinking and more receptivity to boundless knowing gained from an infinite pool of knowing since the beginning of... whatever we call THIS.

I know I'm not giving solid answers to your questions. I'm just continuously feeling around this life as a blind person just now learning how to read braille.



What if, as human beings in this current age, we are all as children who haven't reached this so-called "age of reason". How could anything hold us accountable as to inflict "bad karma"? Again... to me this seems man-made.



Who says we're NOT learning what "Buddha" learned? Who's to say that Buddha's learning doesn't represent what every single individual learns?



Perhaps the moment we try to "apply" any teaching, we are automatically no longer in our own learning. Guess that would be a more "Zen" approach.



There's none. How can the intangible be proven?



Agreed...



Yup...



Perhaps a "souls" complete experience MUST include the physical plane experience ("Earth School"). I'd almost be willing to bet that boredom isn't what drives the soul to enter into this realm.



Yikes, Tribo! I'd only be guessing...




I never said that all spirits were so desirous of playing here. I'm not sure if "desire" even enters into the equation.

When the discussion of "free will" comes up, I usually slip out the side door and check out. I have no clue about any rules.

"""Who says one does not return to human form wiser?

How can you be so sure?"""


HISTORY AND 6.5 BILLION PEOPLE that are alive today. if your looking strictly at sciences and industry and such as a thermometer for wisdom, then i could possibly agree that there have been advancements in many feilds - but from a "MORAL!" stand point - mankind's morals have gotten no better in all of recorded history.If mans morals have not improved towards this concept of reaching "NIRVANA" then whats the point? more science to get us to live longer and be just as immoral as ever? what good is that? if mans morals do not improve then all of his so called improvement in other areas is a moot point to me. i see no religious beliefs that qualify as "MORAL" behavior modifier's that improves man in any way - what the bulk of humanity call wisdom is not wisdom but just intellect and knowledge that has done little good as to changing who and what man is at his core, he remains the same pitiful stuck in a rut moral human being he has always been.