and let's not forget the holy spirit

how rude

Don't go, JB...

Isn't the only way to do life to make it up as we go, so to speak? How else would be able to continue to learn. We don't make it up out of thin air. It comes from being open enough to allow new information in.

I salute that.

I was saying goodbye to funches, not to the subject.

Imagination rules the world..!

OMFG!!!

funches agreed with me!!!

I can't believe it!!!

Maybe he's right. Maybe I really am in an other-reality, out-of-body, delusional, hallucinatory dream!!!

"Spendidlife" ..."JennieBean" always suggest that I "F-Off" after I back her in a corner ...

"Skyhook" sorry to disappoint you but the phrase "er..ok...right" suggest that you are delusional not that I agree with you

Ah, I see. I wasn't really deluded, I was just deluding myself that I was deluded. That makes sense.

Ok, so regarding "I do not get that information from a dream."

How is that delusional?

a lot of replies since the last time I looked at this thread...

for right now...reincarnation is a grim situation for the human race...obviously...the human race hasn't evolved much in the way it is supposed to...we are being restricted to do so by the fake lives we're forced to live day after day, and the curtains that remain over the knowledge we should have gained since years back..

though it won't always be this way...I'm certain a great change will come..and set us free...not long from now I imagine it happening...this programed life we live...is why life is stagnant...in certain areas I see the point some try to make about reincarnation...my take..is that some just choose to take it for what it may be, and not sugar coat it at all..some like to look on the brighter side of things..

for the time being..there's not much a human can do if this really is the outcome..to me..reincarnation makes more sense than other outcomes..

but I also think that souls are reincarnated to continue growing, and slowly revert back to the center of creation to try and understand as much as possible of creation itself and grow...I also think that no matter how many lives are passed, the outreach life takes in order to get answers to certain questions, there just simply isn't answers for certain questions...I feel that certain questions only exist, in humans minds alone...questions that have wrongfully been instilled onto us...

even still...life as stagnant as it is at times...can sometimes be an overwhelmingly great experience..as well as it can be such a down damp experience as well...

it's also my firm belief that..a select amount of individuals do retain former traits of past lives...strange skills that aren't possible to be genetically transferred..not traits as simple as athleticism or musicianship [tho of course one can't exactly just pick it up and be a master at such skill] but I'm referring to abnormal skills people may or may not agree to be "real"..a heightened sense of spiritual awareness...being able to have "useful" dreams..the OBE I also believe to be a skill some are naturally gifted at, though it's usefulness would be subject to it's user...etc...

although I believe the soul can retain these skills, I would consider the skills to be knowledge...but knowledge in terms of detailed data of past lives such as memories..I don't believe is carried over..at least as of right now, I don't believe we are capable of doing this...and I'm not sure if it is an impossible feature, or if this is caused by an outside force..

and...to make more clear why I state these skills are considered knowledge in my theory...is because the soul does not work like our human bodies, I don't believe the soul has it's own brain that functions as our physical human brain...the soul would grow/learn/ and attain abilities to pass onto the brain to trigger certain mechanisms in the humans body once a link is established between mind and soul...this...I consider knowledge...

-just my opinion on things

"Skyhook" because you said that when you had your out of body experience it occured while you were in a dream or meditation state

since you cannot supply any "new unknowledge knowledge" beyond that of a dream it's a logical conclusion that you were dreaming when it occured ...in other words you were copin' a couple of ZZZZZs

It depends on what you perceive sleep to really be. Is sleep just a waste of time that serves as a shutdown mode for human beings to operate better after the systems reboot?...or could the same mechanisms involved in sleep serve a deeper purpose that most human beings don't know about?...or is it possible that it can be both?

I believe sleep to be one of the most powerful natural meditation states a human being can be in. However if you can't control it, or if you are simply "falling" asleep...then it just turns into shutdown mode to re-cooperate...

though I do understand where you are coming from funches...if really a human being was intending to meditate, and has such an incredible experience...and say you are sitting right next to this person who is having such an intense experience...you only notice this person passed out/sleeping drooling on his arm....it would be easy to say hey man....you were just having a crazy dream, nothing more.

but when considering an OBE...if that person can recall his/her surroundings and something that occurred OUTSIDE of the bodies placement ;ie- say he has the experience, and notices someone is about to walk up to your door step

then when the person having the OBE tells you, nah man it was more than a dream, I seen John riding his red bike coming to our house, he was wearing a black shirt with a skull logo on it and some blue jeans..then a minute or two afterwords John actually shows up in the said conditions...well then...was it really just a dream?

New knowledge attained would be simply the experience itself..over time...the individual may be able to have such experiences purposely when before the person may have only accidentally stumbled upon such an experience connected to sleep.

the experience has been shared with many individuals...it's obvious these people aren't simply dreaming, something really is happening. I stated before...it's usefulness is subject to the user [person experiencing it]...

does it do any good or serve a purpose? Kind of up to you

Hi Sam,

I hope you are having a great day my friend and may you always find peace and happiness at all times.

To answer your question there is something I would like to share that may catch your interest. It is one way of understanding about (reincarnation) of Buddhism. Of course many will disagree as agree. What is important is that you at the end of the day find peace in your mind and soul and enjoy the life that you are living.

***

Reincarnation in Buddhism is not emphasized. In fact the Buddha denied the existence of the soul. This denial, however, was only a part of his total philosophy that denied the existence of all substances because all things, to the Buddha, were impermanent. This impermanence of existence is the first of the three aspects of existence that he called the "the three marks of existence." For the Buddha, the ultimate state of existence was Nirvana wherein all the worldly and impermanent aspects of existence disappear in the realities of something far greater. It consists of a melding of one's being with something that has no boundaries and has been compared to a dewdrop melding with the sea or the dewdrop opening up to receive the sea.

more to come..

Do you Buddhists believe in rebirth as an animal in the next life? Are you going to be a dog or a cow in the future? Does the soul transmigrate into the body of another person or some animal? What is the difference between transmigration and reincarnation? Is it the same as rebirth? Is karma the same as fate? These and a hundred similar questions are often asked.

A gross misunderstanding of about Buddhism exists today, especially in the notion of reincarnation. The common misunderstanding is that a person has led countless previous lives, usually as an animal, but somehow in this life he is born as a human being and in the next life he will be reborn as an animal, depending on the kind of life he has lived.

This misunderstanding arises because people usually do not know-how to read the sutras or sacred writings. It is said that the Buddha left 84,000 teachings; the symbolic figure represents the diverse backgrounds characteristics, tastes, etc. of the people. The Buddha taught according to the mental and spiritual capacity of each individual. For the simple village folks living during the time of the Buddha, the doctrine of reincarnation was a powerful moral lesson. Fear of birth into the animal world must have frightened many people from acting like animals in this life. If we take this teaching literally today we are confused because we cannot understand it rationally.

Herein lies our problem. A parable, when taken literally, does not make sense to the modern mind. Therefore we must learn to differentiate the parables and myths from actuality. However, if we learn to go beyond or transcend the parables and myths, we will be able to understand the truth.


What Reincarnation is Not

Reincarnation is not a simple physical birth of a person; for instance, John being reborn as a cat in the next life. In this case John possesses an immortal soul which transforms to the form of a cat after his death. This cycle is repeated over and over again. Or if he is lucky, he will be reborn as a human being. This notion of the transmigration of the soul definitely does not exist in Buddhism.


http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/reincarnation.htm

Boo!

I tend to agree that the same mechanisms involved in sleep serve a much greater purpose than just providing the body rest and I base this on actual experience. I'm fascinated with subconscious processes occurring during deep sleep dreaming. Therefore, any discussion involving REM Sleep and EMDR always piques my interest.

The idea that we could consciously access the subconscious gets me all fired up. However, I then remember that our conscious mind must first somehow be in alignment with the subconscious. I believe that the reason we can have these experiences while in deep sleep is because our conscious mind is on pause (not running or trying to run the show). This would suggest that we are incapable of utilizing our conscious mind to access this deeper or higher consciousness. One would think that Science would have found the key by now. Science exists in conscious thought.

If our conscious mind allows a mere 10% existence, only utilizing a fraction of what we are capable, some sort of shift in consciousness would be necessary.

This I see as possible...

Just don't have a clue as to how. Somehow, "Religion" (or Spirituality) and Science would need to unite rather than disprove one another.

To some, this may just seem like I'm babbling the same as usual. So be it. At least I can feel as if I'm pointed in a direction that seems possible.

"Ahaloaskewed" haven't you ever sat next to someone that was sitting upright when they start snoring and then deny that they were asleep or were snoring



the items you described red bike, black shirt etc. exist as varables throughout reality so it's not impossible to guess an event as it may happenned in sequence ...it's no different then guessing all the winning lottery numbers

Nope. You either misread or misunderstood or forgot what I said. I stated very specifically that it was not while in a dream or meditative state.

by your own definition (and I quote) "new unknown knowledge would be information not of this reality".

So as far as this reality goes, "new unknowledge knowledge" can't exist.

Yet you want me to provide you with something that can't exist.

And you say I'm dreaming?

your reference to seeing someone snoring and they deny it, yes that has happened before, though I don't see any relevance to what's being discussed. Maybe you thought I said the individual wasn't sleeping. Indeed the individual is sleeping. This does not at all suggest any loss of credibility to the experience. It seems maybe you believe it totally discredits everything, though I can't see how it would.

yea, the person will say it wasn't "just" a dream, but they were in that sleep state, but something was going on. Like I stated before, up to you whether you want to take into consideration that sleep and it's involved mechanisms aren't only used for 1 thing. There's even scientific proof that sleep and death are intertwined with each other through components that occur during REM sleep, and when a human has a NDE. Proven fact already...I'm pretty sure you are already aware of that though...


but you see, it is very different, because no one is guessing. Very big difference.


People just say what they see, nothing more, nothing less. It has not to deal with any guess work, just what a person experiences and views. They don't describe what they think they seen, they describe what they did see. Evidently, what they see, really was there. No opposing argument for that.

It is what it is.


A person can try so hard to give a "rational" answer to something they can't really explain, when the most rational answer is already present


If you're convinced in your own mind already of what you believe those experiences to be, that's fine though.

Obviously so am I...and I've done the homework...it is what it is...that's all...from my experience of discussing this matter with others, I've only come to realize that many who are in such disbelief, are jealous because they haven't had such experiences, or instead of being fascinated become angry because they can't explain it...I never understood why people react such a way...it isn't as if someone is claiming they spoke to some magnificent being thought to be some god or anything...they're just saying what they experienced, its relevance to reality, and that the experience really happened and even they themselves can't explain it besides say it happened, and that's that.


now if someone says they popped out of their body, and found themselves on a different plane that is alien to humans..well then...that is an entirely different discussion in itself...I'm only speaking of that in the human physical plane we all share and experience. It's the only experience that has concrete proof you can touch.

From a human perspective, the only "truth" is that which has actually happened or actually been experienced... based on individual memory. Those who completely discount these experiences will not be made to see them as valid unless they themselves actually experience it.

I just want to add that in life..there are things a human can explain, and other things humans just can't explain for various reasons...at least not yet, and it's possible or impossible that certain things will eventually be explainable, or there will never be anything to explain other than certain things, are just there, or just happen.


so it's pretty much like this...



Look at the planet mars..


you can't say for "certain" -HOW it got there


you can't say for "certain" -WHY it's there


but what you can say for "certain"

is THAT it's there.


it is what it is, and that can't be argued...

my only point is that people have the experience...what the experience really is, how the experience really happened, or why the experience happened, are irrelevant to that fact that the experience indeed...really did happen.