I found the professors credentials, the core curriculum required at the college, etc. I even found the online text for the very class that Gina was taking!

You are right, philospohy is the study of different beliefs and cultures. it is NOT however, a place to teach people that one idea is or is not wrong, or that another idea may or may not be right. It is a place to teach what other people think and believe, not to make others believe the same thing.



Bull****. You do nmot have to accept that Christ may have lived in order to have a conversation about Christianity (Christianity as an example). You just have to be willing to accept that other people believe he lived at one time.

You can be one of the most renowned experts on the Christian faith, and still not believe a single thing about it. Personal belief has absolutely nothing to do with wether or not you can have an intelligent conversation.



Your right she could have stepped back, let the teacher tell her that she is not capable of learning anything because she refuses to believe that her religious beliefs might be wrong. Instead, she chose to stand up for what she believes in, and is now fighting for the fairness and rights she should have been given in the first place.



How is wanting the same advantages and chances as her pears being greedy? And yes a few class points is a small price to pay for being true to her Lord.
HOWEVER what you fail to grasp is the United States has what is called freedom of religion. This entire Country was founded on the principle that you have the right to believe and worship whatever you want to, without having it held against you in any way. And by telling he rthat she had to make a statement that her religious beliefs forbid her to do, in order to get extra points, is a clear cut case of entrapment and discrimination.



What your personal opinion is, does not matter. The point of the class is to teach about other peoples beliefs and culture. You can do that without trying to convert the student, or requiring the student to state that it is possible their own beliefs are wrong.



"
Definitions of 'persecute' (pûrsĭ-kyūt) - 2 definitions - The American Heritage® Dictionary

persecute (v.) To oppress or harass with ill-treatment, especially because of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or beliefs.
persecute (v.) To annoy persistently; bother. "

This is the legal definition of persecution. The professor is guilty of harrasing Gina about her religion buy claiming she had to open her miond up to the possibility that she might be wrong in her beliefs, or else suffer the consequences (a reduction in her grade).



again, in a sociology class the object of the class is not to suggest one belief over another, it is to teach the different beliefs of different peoples/cultures. Gina doe snot have to consider anythign to do with her religion and faith in order to learn about another persons belief structure.



Yes she could have passed the class all the same, but she suffered the reduction of her gpa (which plays a big part in some peoples lives), because she refused to be persecuted about her religion (told she had to admit she could be wrong, which goes directly against her God's orders, or else suffer a lower grade). She doe snot have to admit to anythign about wether or not her religioin may or may not be wrong in order to study other religions/philosophy.

I do see your point, but again, her grades did not suffer. She was not docked any grades for refusing to consider that she could be wrong.

Should the Professor have used this tactic? No, I don't think he should have. Personally It would have ticked me off a little too.

Should she make a federal case out of it? No, I don't think she should have, but maybe she has nothing better to do.

JB

How can you say her grades did not suffer? She began with a 3.9 gpa and it dropped soon after after she began this philosophy class, and was required to go against her beliefs. Then when the proff states he will give extra points to whomever states a non-christian belief, but not to the christian who refuses to violate her beliefs, (and this is exactly what he did, if not in os many words), her gpa suffered again, because she did not have the chance to earn these extra points.

I guess you do not understand the meaning of "extra points."

These are points above and beyond what she normally would have gotten had this offer never transpired.

So the issue is simply her jealousy that someone else got more points than her because they were willing to go above and beyond what was required of the class.

What was required of the class did not include her making that statement.

Anyway, that is my opinion. Nuff said.

JB

A friend of mind pointed me to this thread, so I read the OP and a few of the comments.

As far as I’m concerned philosophy requires considering all possible views. Anyone who isn’t willing to consider all possible views deserves to flunk a philosophy class because they have failed to understand the first thing about it.

It really has absolutely nothing to do with the specific views or beliefs that the student was refusing to consider or not consider.

If someone says that they believe the moon is made out of green cheese and they refuse to consider any other possibilities then they deserve to flunk a philosophy class.

Green cheese, Christianity, the boogeyman, it doesn’t matter. If you refuse to consider other possibilities then you deserve to flunk because you clearly don’t understand the first thing about philosophy. No one was being asked to change their beliefs but rather to merely consider all possibilities from a philosophical point of view. That’s what philosophy is all about!

The idea that this was somehow an attack on Christians or Christianity in general is absurd.

In the meantime, I have a migraine headache so I’m going back to bed.

Cheers Abra, and thanks

Your input is always great. Especially in these types of threads.

absolutely......philosophy is a CLASS to LEARN about everything out there in the way of religion not a CONVERSION or BRAIN WASHING....we live in america but you don't see people getting their panties in a bunch and sewing people because they have to take world history class and write papers about germany or africa. nobody said she had to believe in it but you need to know about whatelse is out there so you aren't stupid and ignorant when you turn on the news and see another waco going on or another hitler uprising. open your minds people and quit being so simple, this is a complex world with so much knowledge in it, why the hell would you want to focus on just one subject and not see all the possibilities out there. just because you were raised one way or believed one way your whole life doesn't make it the right way....see whatelse is out there before you set your heart is stone to one thing.

writeing a paper about religions is like writeing a paper about dungeons and dragons and should be dealt with in a fiction class

OH YOU!! I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE!! ;-)

I am sorry but that is the biggest load of bs I have ever heard. The idea behind a philosophy class is not to get you to consider other beliefs or philosophys. it is simply to educate you on what other people may or may not believe. You do not have to cnosider the possibility that someopen elses belief is right and yours is wrong in order to learn about their belief. you just have to sit down, and listen to what theier belief system is. You do nt have to agree with it, you do not have to concede it is possible they are right and you are wrong.

See, I have to disagree with that. Only people with an open mind can truly learn. Otherwise they are just retaining information. If you are so set in your ways that you can't accept anything else other than your way as truth it doesn't matter who sits there and tries to explain it to you and how much you actually listen. You aren't going to learn a darn thing. You may remember what that person said but that is simply retaining it. Not learning it.

I'd like to know if this philosophy class actually exists and is real........is JSH real???...hmmm gonna have to read my Philosophy 101 again

ok I stand corrected. What you just said is now the bigest piece of bs I have ever heard. Saying people cant learn if they refuse to achnowledge they might be wrong. Bull chit.

Does this then mean that you have the same knowledge, perceptions and ideas that you held as a child?
For a child learns that some of the knowledge it has is wrong and learns better. This is all part of growing. It is recognizing and accepting that what you know is wrong.
If one cannot accept what is wrong then how do you learn what is right?

For a child learns that some of the knowledge it has is wrong and learns better. This is all part of growing. It is recognizing and accepting that what you know is wrong.

......................................

Should read:
For a child learns that some of the knowledge it has is wrong and learns better. This is all part of growing. It is recognizing and accepting that what you know may be wrong.

Lindyy rebukes the above post this way:

Oh, my dearier dear,

Spoken like a true ATHIEST that you are!!(Of course I viewed your profile)

BUT, to my ultimate delight, YOU HAVE JUST PROVED THE TRUTH OF THE NAME OF MY THREAD:
"Christian Persecution - growing like a rampant cancer"


I knew when I posted this thread on this subject that it would draw out of the woodwork all the ATHIESTS, AGNOSTICS, PEOPLE WHO INDULGE IN THE OCCULT AND THE LIKE.

There are others like and/or similar to you who have also posted.

Though I disagree with MOST (not all) of what they said, at least they spoke their opinion in a dignified and intelligent manner!!

And my dear, you are TOTALLY OFF TOPIC!!

Try reading my original post and then I welcome you to make an intelligent non-insulting/attacking post.

Your original post is one that falls into the catagory of reporting to one of the mods. But I believe in allowing one to'redeem' his/herself with a civil response.

Lindyy
PTL

Abra, please re read the original post. Gina was definately attacked because of her faith.

She DID NOT FLUNK - She has a 3.9 grade average.
The philosophy class was REQUIRED course to take at the college she attended. But the demands and issues this professor placed on the students, he knowingly knew that if Gina and anyone else, signed his paper that it would IN REALITY make any Christian student deny her/his faith in Jesus Christ - which FORCES one to deny Jesus:

Matthew 10:33
"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven."

This vicious viper of a professor knew this scripture very well and did it out of pure maliciousness.


You cannot take away or infringe upon one's freedom of religion and freedom of speech rights!!! Well, you can, but it results in "OFF TO COURT WE GO!"

Lindyy

I only have one disagreement with your post, quoting scripture is not vanity as you put it.

If scripture were not attached to the post, then anyone could up and say 'How do we know that scripture exists?' or so many other statements like it.

When I quote scripture, I do it to protect my post and give information to anyone to be able to look up the scripture itself.

Thank you for the rest of your well thought out post.

Lindyy

I agree.

There would be NO POINT at all in learning what anyone else's philosophy is if you are not willing to consider it and ponder the possibilities.

It would be like memorizing useless information, and I am sure for Gina, that is the way it was because she was not open. For her, it was a useless waste of time because she was closed off and "determined." (stubborn) NOT to THINK.

Learning what other philosophers thought or pondered about in no way would contribute to your true education in life except to take up room in your brain. IF YOU ARE UNWILLING TO THINK or consider them. ~Which she was unwilling to do.

Philosophy hopefully will teach a person to THINK.

What's the point of it otherwise? What would be the point of learning anything that other people think? No point at all if all you allow yourself to consider is what you have been told is truth and you have shut the door on any other ideas.

You keep yourself in darkness. So be it.

You are afraid of the light of knowledge. So be it.

Stay in your caves.

JB