Remember to be nice today to all the wonderful ladies on here. Its Mothers day!

I am always nice Fanta!!

Take it easy, you make is seem like I am picking on you, all I was saying is I had to take a class I didn't agree with to get my college degree, and I didn't ***** about it, nor did I make a big federal case about it, I SHUT UP and did what I was told. You are crying about some kid that was highly intellegent, A 4.0 would have been ideal yes, but a 3.9 is just as impressive. Unfortuneately, that kid did deserve a lower grade, she was not smart enough to realize it was just a class. You Christisans are all alike, blind to any other idea except what your preacher tells you to have. As a human, and an American, you are free to think however you want, which includes stopping, and making an educated decision about everything in life, including religions, now before you open your mouth and start blasting me for trying to convert you or opress your first ammendment rights, All I am saying is look at all the options before you, you do not have to touch, but look and see what the world has to offer. You know you can do it.

As for your responce to Abra, maybe you could take your own advice and READ HIS posting, no where in there did he say that she flunked, and this thread is open for discussion and here you are threatening people with lawsuits because they exercised their first ammendment rights and voiced their opinions.


Happy Mothers Day

hmmmm.....

i could consider that entrapment...hahahhahahaahaaaaaa

i was just messin with ya'all...i , like you, hahhahaaaa
hold a mirror with a different angle
and i couldn't resist the title hahahhaaaa
you can run with what i say any way you like , it is what your own mind brings to the table, that determines how you see it.

i shouldn't actually have to explain myself in an 'adult' forum, about what was clearly black humour....

so ...i have no more to say i guess....do what you will

Very few seem to have read my original post fully.


HERE GOES MY STANCE ON THIS MATTER FOR THE HUNDREDTH TIME

...........please re read the original post. Gina was definately attacked because of her faith.

She DID NOT FLUNK - She has a 3.9 grade average.
The philosophy class was a REQUIRED course to take at the college she attended. But the demands and issues this professor placed on the students, he KNOWINGLY KNEW that if Gina and anyone else, signed his paper that it would IN REALITY make any Christian student DENY her/his faith in Jesus Christ - which FORCES one to deny Jesus:

Matthew 10:33
"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven."

This vicious viper of a professor KNEW this scripture very well and did it out of pure maliciousness.


You cannot take away or infringe upon one's freedom of religion and freedom of speech rights!!! Well, you can, but it results in "OFF TO COURT WE GO!"

Lindyy
***************************************************************

TO THOSE OUT THERE SCREAMING 'OPEN YOUR MIND'.

I say to all of you: To a Christian one of the MOST important aspects of being a Christian is to acknowledge your faith in Christ to all. For a Christian to deny Christ, as this professor was trying to get away with doing, would mean most certain a life in hell upon death.


NOW, how about ALL you opposers for Gina taking her stand for Christ HOW ABOUT ALL OF YOU OPEN YOUR MIND to Gina's sitution and what she was forced to do?

Matthew 10:33
"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven."

The professor is WAY out of line, Gina has a ton of grounds to sue upon, and that is why the ACLJ has stepped in as her counsel and has started legal proceedings. Her rights were very much trampeled on.

This professor could very easily have chosen another topic for extra credit, but he deliberatgely, wantonly and knowingly did this as an attack on Christianity.

Do you know ANYTHING about the ALJ? Read up and you will understand why they are representing Gina and will go all the way to the Federal Court if necessary.

Do not tread on someone's freedom of religion and freedom of speech. You just might end up facing a Federal Judge.

Lindyy



Thank God for the ACLJ and Jay Sekulow!

I have to disagree there. I do fully admit his tactics were uncalled for in what he did. Although you are making it sound like he singled this girl out and was attacking just christianity. That isn't the case unless everyone in the classroom was a Christian. Everyone in the class had the option of writing. I am <Blah Blah> and I am not free because I am determined.

If he had them write, I am <Blah Blah> and I am not free because I believe in only one god, or I am not free cause I am a Christian. Then I can see him singling out christianity.

It seems more to me that he was singling out religion in general. and if that is the case sure, a lawsuit could be brought about which it has been. Should it have been? Probably not but that's the way it goes sometimes.

Although this can't be construed as an attack on just christianity because it was presented as an option to everyone in the class.

UPDATE: Protecting Gina's First Amendment Rights

From the ACLJ:

"We continue to work on behalf of Gina, the college student in Suffolk County, New York who is experiencing problems in her college philosophy class due to her faith.

Although Gina maintains a 3.9 overall GPA and did very well on the first few philosophy class assignments, her grades in the philosophy course dropped significantly after the question of God’s existence and attributes became the focus of class discussion.

Gina read the assigned materials and participated in class discussions, presenting traditional philosophical arguments on whether God exists and whether He possesses certain characteristics such as being all-knowing or all-good.

However, Gina was unwilling to state that she would reconsider her personal religious beliefs on God’s nature and existence, and her grades suffered as a result. THE PROFESSOR HAS STATED THAT IT IS HIS JOB TO GET STUDENTS TO REJECT BELIEF IN A SACRED OR QUESTIONABLE "TRUTH" IN FAVOR OF THE "RATIONAL" VIEW THAT SCIENCE, LOGIC, AND PHILOSOPHY ARE THE ONLY RELIALE SOURCES OF "TRUTH." (emphasis all caps by Lindyy)

While public college professors may encourage students to discuss and debate various philosophies and worldviews, THEY MAY NOT GRADE STUDENTS UPON THEIR WILLINGNESS TO MAKE PERSONAL, VALUE-BASED STATEMENTS OR TO ABANDON THEIR RELIGIOUS FAITH. (emphasis all caps by Lindyy).

One class assignment is particularly troubling. The professor stated that he would increase any student’s grade on a previous assignment to a 100 if he or she made the following statement on the course’s online message board: “I am _____________ (put your name here). I am not free because I am determined.”

The sole basis for determining whether a student would receive free points is his or her willingness to make this personal, faith-based claim. Gina was posed with the difficult choice of either violating her religious beliefs by publicly declaring, “I am Gina. I am not free because I am determined” or being penalized by failing to receive extra points like her classmates. Although most or all of the rest of the class made the required statement and took the points, Gina chose to adhere to her faith because she could not, in good conscience, make that statement. THIS IS NOT AN EXAMPLE OF PHILOSOPHICAL DISCUSSION AND DEBATE BUT RATHER A PROFESSOR USING HIS POSITION OF AUTHORITY TO FORCE STUDENTS TO STATE THEIR PERSONAL AGREEMENT WITH HIS PHILOSOPHICAL VIEWPOINTS. (emphasis caps by Lindyy)

We sent a letter to the college’s attorney regarding the denial of Gina’s First Amendment rights, but the school’s initial response was unsatisfactory. We just sent a follow-up letter to the college detailing more troubling facts of this case and requesting a prompt response to avoid litigation. We will keep you posted on this situation."

If she believes that, then she is acting out of FEAR and nothing else.

She is clearly brainwashed if she believes that LIE.

She is living her life IN FEAR OF HELL.

And in truth, there is no hell except that which you create for yourself in your own mind. IMO

There is nothing to fear but fear itself. There is nothing to fear of God. IMO

God does not kill people because they are "evil." IMO

God does not abandon his children to Hell. IMO

What she believe is true is a lie.

(This is my opinion and belief.)





Now it is YOU that Lie. (This is my opinion.)

She was NOT FORCED to do anything.
Extra credit is not forced. Extra credit is voluntary. It is not part of the requirement to complete and pass that class.

You LIE when you state that she was FORCED to do anything.



Poor baby. She had to give up a few extra credit points to remain true to her stubborn belief in a LIE. IMO

Anyone can file a lawsuit. That it has been filed means nothing.

I don't think she will win her case anyway, and if she does, what is she asking for? A few extra credit points? Is she asking for Money? Is she asking for the professor to be fired? Is she asking for the college to prohibit this kind of extra credit offers? What, is she asking for??




That is implied INTENT. You should not make a statement like that unless you are prepared to Prove it. You cannot prove it. You do not know what his intentions were.




No one tread on Gina's freedom of religion. And that will never be proven in any court.

Perhaps you should find a cause worth putting your time and effort into like a good Christian should. Feed the poor, rescue animals,.. something worthwhile. Such a waste of energy on your part. Is is a shame.

JB

Honestly, if that is his job, and if he stated that it was his job, and IF like you said, she was REQUIRED TO TAKE THAT CLASS,
(which has been refuted) then she could have opted out of that class on the basis of her religious "determination."

Then, if the school disallowed her opting out, then and only then should she have sued the College.

JB

She had no problems or issues with learning philosophy folks. When will you get it through your heads that the problem was the fact that her proffessor wanted her to make a statement that was against her religion, and then continually downgraded her class work when she would not admit that he might be right about her religion being wrong? THAT IS THE ENTIRE ISSUE AT HAND HERE, not wether or not she participated (she did when it did not conflict with her belief system), but the fact that her philosophy teacher docked her grades the enitre term for refusing to state that her religion might be wrong, and offering extra points ONLY to those willing to make a statement contrary to the Christian religion.

Yes as you go through life, child or not, you continually learn different things. ANd though life and ages, some things that were thought to be true turned out to be false. The problem here is when you stand up and state a person is required to not fully believe what she wants to believe, or to do something that goes against what she believes in, or you are going to hold it against her. That is called persecution; scroll through the thread and you wills ee where I pasted the definition of persecution a page or so back. And persecution of a persons religious beliefs is constitutionally wrong.

Lindyy says:

I expected no other type of answer than the kind you just posted.

YOU refused to OPEN YOUR MIND to Gina's situation, yet you INSIST on others opening their mind to your position. Do you see how hypocrital you are?

You do a total SPIN on the facts that have been posted and have taken out of context practically every fact stated.

Well thank God and the Federal Courts your opinion matters NOT in this case. You are not versed in any way shape or form of Federal law, constitutional rights and infringement of first amendment rights.

I will be more than pleased to let you know the outcome of this case.

You will not be so smug with the results that will be found.

Lindyy

This statement right here is all that is needed to prove that Ginas constitutional rights for freedom of religion were violated. it is constitutionally wrong for any public (non-private) organization, such as a school (any level), to try and change a persons religious beliefs, or to comvince someone in class that religion (as a whole) is false, and science is real.

YOU CAN NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMASTANCES TALL A PERSON WHAT THEY ARE ALLOWED TO BELIEVE. NOR CAN YOU PENALIZE SOMEONE FOR NOT BELIEVEING WHATYOU BELIEVE IN. AND FINALLY NOBODY IN AMERICA IS LEGALLY AUTHORIZED TO TRY AND FORCE SOMEONE ELSE TO CHANGE THEIR VIEWS. And yes, someone DID try and force Gina to change her views, or at the very liest, go against them. THUS her constitutional rights were violated, and thus, she has the constitutional right to seek justice over this issue.

I hear Saudi Arabia is nice and warm this time of year!

this is all getting out of hand.

The professor at no time did he mention nor did he imply Christianity. That was what was understood. Get over it, extra credit is just that an opportunity to gain extra credit nothing more nothing less.




people are so busy trying to interpret and show how they are right, they are not reading what was supposedly said.

“I am _____________ (put your name here). I am not free because I am determined.”

just because one person understand/interprets things one way does not make it so people relax.

I believe that the Popular history taught in schools today is a lie and that Columbus did not discover America, and Lee Harvey Oswald did not assassinate President Kennedy and that John Wilkes Booth did not assassinate President Lincoln.

And yet, if I don't agree to these answers in school, I flunked.

In any case if you think Christians are being "persecuted"
try being an Atheist. You don't know how to take what you dish out.

JB

I wonder if there's anyone of any other religion that's upset about this or not.
I don't hear anyone else whining about it!

hey I heard somewhere that Saudi Arabia is nice and warm this time of year!

what's funny is that it has nothing to do with them personally but they want to force feed the issue.

As far as comparing classes goes, nice try. The difference is with the history class it is not linked to religion, and the subjects you gave towards the histry class are nto related to religion, let alone trying to change a persons religion thus violating their constitutional right towards religious freedom. And before you can go on about historical religious studies, as long as they are presented as factual history, and not personal elief, there is no violation as yuo are not trying to change a persons belief system, just teach them what happened with a specific group of people.

As far as being persecuted for being an athiest, I have no idea what you are talking about. To the best of my knowledge, Athiests have not been persecuted (as a whole), which means they have not benn punished, or had anything withheld or anything detrimental happen to them because they are athiest. Now, I am not going to say absolutely no athiest has been persecuted, but as a religious wholeathiosm has not been persecuted.