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| Topic: Christian Persecution - an aggresive cancer growing rampantl | |
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i wonder if my making a post will kill this one to interesting very interesting lmao, nice try adj, but you didnt kill it when you posted earlier, so I doubt you will now  it seems to be working in th other threads lmao |
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Oh I concede the facts between philospohy verses anthopology, and I apologize for mixing the two up. However, the fact still remains that philosophy is NOT about trying to make someone else change their minds or beliefs. It is about teaching them what everyone else (or at a few others, lol) think in comparison to themselves. It is about discussing the differances between, say christianity and buddhism. however it is NOT about trying to copnvert a christian to buddhism, or vice verse or any other religion to another. It is simply there to teach a worldl;y perspective. if the goal of a philosophy class WAS to convert, or change ones way of thinking or belief, then A college could not EVER make it mandatory for graduation, as it would be a conflict against the constitution. An easy way to say it is, a philosophy class is meant to instruct you about different religions, etc without trying to change your opinion or convert you. Differences in religion would be covered by a course of study in Theology. Again philosophy teaches to think, to look at ideas and concepts. To think, discuss and dissect other beliefs, yes. But not to try and convert, or to make someone less faithfull in their own religion If you make it a requirement of graduation, that you take a class in which someone will try and convert or make you less faithful, then you go against a persons right to their freedom of religion. Again there is no converting of any kind in philosophy. It is a course of study to encourage an individual to think, see ideas and concepts. Adapt them to daily usage if they are deemed good concepts and refuse them if not. Study of free thinking, going outside the box, the use of logic in ideas and concepts, how to present and look at ideas. HOW TO THINK!! There is no religion to the free flow of ideas and concepts. Man accepts or refuses ideas as they come to him and are compared with his own base line. |
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To think, discuss and dissect other beliefs, yes. But not to try and convert, or to make someone less faithfull in their own religion If you make it a requirement of graduation, that you take a class in which someone will try and convert or make you less faithful, then you go against a persons right to their freedom of religion. That is NOT what happened in this case. That is a ridiculous claim. JB |
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One just has to be open in order to receive and attain information is what I'm saying. You dont have to agree but no one was forcing this person into making a choice. The assignment (extra credit) was for making a statement, you either do it or you dont. So many are trying to make it into a religious thread when it was not. fran, stop and look at it from the christians viewpoint for a second. Open yourself up to the possibility that the christian might be right for a moment. Christian Doctrine states that if you deny god or gods teachings, then you will go straight to hell. So if you make the statement "my name is daniel, and I am not free because I am closeminded", then you are denying gods teachings that humans ARE free to do what they choose to do (which HE does teach). Thus, if you tell a student (in this particular case) that they will not recive extra credit unless they say something that violates their belief, or their faith, you are punishing them for holding true to their belief. And it is a violation of a persons constitutional right to freedom of religion without persecution (definition is listed earlier inthe thread). |
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To think, discuss and dissect other beliefs, yes. But not to try and convert, or to make someone less faithfull in their own religion If you make it a requirement of graduation, that you take a class in which someone will try and convert or make you less faithful, then you go against a persons right to their freedom of religion. There was no attempted conversion. There was no persecution. A young lady in a course of study which teaches an individual to think was asked to respond to a question. To think and respond for extra credit not anything that would affect earned credit. |
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One just has to be open in order to receive and attain information is what I'm saying. You dont have to agree but no one was forcing this person into making a choice. The assignment (extra credit) was for making a statement, you either do it or you dont. So many are trying to make it into a religious thread when it was not. fran, stop and look at it from the christians viewpoint for a second. Open yourself up to the possibility that the christian might be right for a moment. Christian Doctrine states that if you deny god or gods teachings, then you will go straight to hell. So if you make the statement "my name is daniel, and I am not free because I am closeminded", then you are denying gods teachings that humans ARE free to do what they choose to do (which HE does teach). Thus, if you tell a student (in this particular case) that they will not recive extra credit unless they say something that violates their belief, or their faith, you are punishing them for holding true to their belief. And it is a violation of a persons constitutional right to freedom of religion without persecution (definition is listed earlier inthe thread). laugh:  Okeee dokee.... I'm outa here. The B.S. is getting too deep.. |
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Why would I want to know what or how Hitler thought? I wouldn't. Why would I want to know how Charles Manson thought? By knowing what and how Hitler thought, seeing you mentioned Hitler, you learn what he is likely to do ina given situation. You learn how he believes and reacts. Let's say we know as fact that Hitler was deathly afraid of bees, trhat he thought he would go to hell if he got stung by one. You and I both know he would not go to hell simplyby being stung by a bee (wether you believe inhell or not). however, we also know that if we were to release hundreds of bees in his general area, it would be an effective way of making him react first and think later. Maybe even cause him to panic. Or at least more likely to panic than if five soldeirs were seen coming towards his house. learnign how a personthinks, teaches about the person/group of people themselves. But it does not require for you to be willing to convert over, or to believe you could be wrong. That is why religion is also known as faith. Faith: to believe something without having any logical or scientific proof to back your belief up. That would entail the use of Psychology (Behavior Studies) not philosophy. Psychology in so far as knowing more about him. But say you know he worships the mule god. If you know the teachings of the mulegod religion then you know how he is likely to react based onhis religious beliefs. So yes, Psychology would be part, but so is philosophy. |
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One just has to be open in order to receive and attain information is what I'm saying. You dont have to agree but no one was forcing this person into making a choice. The assignment (extra credit) was for making a statement, you either do it or you dont. So many are trying to make it into a religious thread when it was not. fran, stop and look at it from the christians viewpoint for a second. Open yourself up to the possibility that the christian might be right for a moment. Christian Doctrine states that if you deny god or gods teachings, then you will go straight to hell. So if you make the statement "my name is daniel, and I am not free because I am closeminded", then you are denying gods teachings that humans ARE free to do what they choose to do (which HE does teach). Thus, if you tell a student (in this particular case) that they will not recive extra credit unless they say something that violates their belief, or their faith, you are punishing them for holding true to their belief. And it is a violation of a persons constitutional right to freedom of religion without persecution (definition is listed earlier inthe thread). Philosophy class did not include/exclude religion, the OP and those posting here did. And you are incorrect, if you state So if you make the statement "my name is daniel, and I am not free because I am closeminded" (correct word was determined), then you are denying gods teachings that humans ARE free to do what they choose to do (which HE does teach). hence you are not denying anything you are trying to gain extra credit. The choice was the students to do or not to do the extra credit assignment, more has been read/put into this to try and sway others. I respect all, have my own opinions and if the prof wanted me to say I have 2 heads to get a 100 on my grades...I'd stand on the desk and yell it. my choice my decision nothing to do with religion. |
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Why would I want to know what or how Hitler thought? I wouldn't. Why would I want to know how Charles Manson thought? By knowing what and how Hitler thought, seeing you mentioned Hitler, you learn what he is likely to do ina given situation. You learn how he believes and reacts. Let's say we know as fact that Hitler was deathly afraid of bees, trhat he thought he would go to hell if he got stung by one. You and I both know he would not go to hell simplyby being stung by a bee (wether you believe inhell or not). however, we also know that if we were to release hundreds of bees in his general area, it would be an effective way of making him react first and think later. Maybe even cause him to panic. Or at least more likely to panic than if five soldeirs were seen coming towards his house. learnign how a personthinks, teaches about the person/group of people themselves. But it does not require for you to be willing to convert over, or to believe you could be wrong. That is why religion is also known as faith. Faith: to believe something without having any logical or scientific proof to back your belief up. That would entail the use of Psychology (Behavior Studies) not philosophy. Psychology in so far as knowing more about him. But say you know he worships the mule god. If you know the teachings of the mulegod religion then you know how he is likely to react based onhis religious beliefs. So yes, Psychology would be part, but so is philosophy. Again Sir. Look at the definition of philosophy please. It has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with thinking, ideas. I have posted the definition and repeated it. Yet you refuse to see it. Locked in your own concept without opening your mind to the fact that your argument is based on false information. There are no religions in philosophy. There is only ideas, thoughts, concepts. How to see them, use them. How to think. You Sir refuse to think even when the definitions proving that your concept is wrong is placed before you. Philosophy is not religious it is teaching to think. |
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And you are incorrect, if you state QUOTE: So if you make the statement "my name is daniel, and I am not free because I am closeminded" (correct word was determined), then you are denying gods teachings that humans ARE free to do what they choose to do (which HE does teach). first let me apologize for transcribing the wornd word there, you are right it determined, not closeminded. Sorry about that. Second, in the Christian religion, one of Gods teachings is that man is free to do as he pleases... Another of God's teachings is that it is a sin to deny any of God's teachings. And as everybody knows, if you sin you go to hell (according to Christian Doctrine). So, yes the statement "my name is Daniel, and I am not free because I am determined" directly goes against god's teachings by denying the fact that man is free to do as he pleases. So in conclusion here,in a philosophy class, which in this partiicular case is required for the degree, same as math or science is, if you tell a Christian student that she won't get extra credit because she refuses to make the above statement, due to the fact that she does not want to deny her god and face going to Hell, then you are guilty of persecuting (punishing for personal religious beliefs) this student. |
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And you are incorrect, if you state QUOTE: So if you make the statement "my name is daniel, and I am not free because I am closeminded" (correct word was determined), then you are denying gods teachings that humans ARE free to do what they choose to do (which HE does teach). first let me apologize for transcribing the wornd word there, you are right it determined, not closeminded. Sorry about that. Second, in the Christian religion, one of Gods teachings is that man is free to do as he pleases... Another of God's teachings is that it is a sin to deny any of God's teachings. And as everybody knows, if you sin you go to hell (according to Christian Doctrine). So, yes the statement "my name is Daniel, and I am not free because I am determined" directly goes against god's teachings by denying the fact that man is free to do as he pleases. So in conclusion here,in a philosophy class, which in this partiicular case is required for the degree, same as math or science is, if you tell a Christian student that she won't get extra credit because she refuses to make the above statement, due to the fact that she does not want to deny her god and face going to Hell, then you are guilty of persecuting (punishing for personal religious beliefs) this student. No. Extra credit is always a student choice. Whether the student can or cannot has nothing to do with it. Especially at that level of education where they are supposed to think for themselves. The student refused the extra credit it was not denied her. She used free thought to refuse it. |
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Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
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Second, in the Christian religion, one of Gods teachings is that man is free to do as he pleases... Except deny him, if he does, he GOES TO HELL. Sounds like a LOT of freedom to me. Not much choice, but freedom to go to hell or not. Some choice. Another of God's teachings is that it is a sin to deny any of God's teachings. And as everybody knows, if you sin you go to hell (according to Christian Doctrine). That is a crock. Christian doctrine teaches that all are sinners, then all will be going to hell. So, yes the statement "my name is Daniel, and I am not free because I am determined" directly goes against god's teachings by denying the fact that man is free to do as he pleases. What a stretch! Yep, man is free to sin and go to hell. So in conclusion here,in a philosophy class, which in this partiicular case is required for the degree, same as math or science is, if you tell a Christian student that she won't get extra credit because she refuses to make the above statement, due to the fact that she does not want to deny her god and face going to Hell, then you are guilty of persecuting (punishing for personal religious beliefs) this student. Still, she was just crying about missing a few extra credit points. If she is NOT willing to THINK, and realize or admit that she is NOT free to THINK because she is bound by Christian doctrine with the threat of HELL hanging over her head, then she does not deserve any extra credit. She is lucky she even passes the class. I would have flunked her out. JB |
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Philosophy class did not include/exclude religion, the OP and those posting here did. BULLCHIT. Go back and reread the very original posting and you will see this excerpt: He said that to engage in dialogue, you have to at least acknowledge the possibility that god does not exist To tell a christian student (even by accident and unintentionally) that she has to stand their and say that her faith in her god is not complete, which is exactly what you would be saying if you stated that it is possible god did not exist, you are asking her to deny her god. Thus you are brining religion into it. And by telling her that she will not recieve popints (extra or regular does not matter) becuase she will not deny her god, is persecution. |
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Second, in the Christian religion, one of Gods teachings is that man is free to do as he pleases... Except deny him, if he does, he GOES TO HELL. Sounds like a LOT of freedom to me. Not much choice, but freedom to go to hell or not. Some choice. Another of God's teachings is that it is a sin to deny any of God's teachings. And as everybody knows, if you sin you go to hell (according to Christian Doctrine). That is a crock. Christian doctrine teaches that all are sinners, then all will be going to hell. So, yes the statement "my name is Daniel, and I am not free because I am determined" directly goes against god's teachings by denying the fact that man is free to do as he pleases. What a stretch! Yep, man is free to sin and go to hell. So in conclusion here,in a philosophy class, which in this partiicular case is required for the degree, same as math or science is, if you tell a Christian student that she won't get extra credit because she refuses to make the above statement, due to the fact that she does not want to deny her god and face going to Hell, then you are guilty of persecuting (punishing for personal religious beliefs) this student. Still, she was just crying about missing a few extra credit points. If she is NOT willing to THINK, and realize or admit that she is NOT free to THINK because she is bound by Christian doctrine with the threat of HELL hanging over her head, then she does not deserve any extra credit. She is lucky she even passes the class. I would have flunked her out. JB lol, I thought you were leaving for the night? |
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Philosophy class did not include/exclude religion, the OP and those posting here did. BULLCHIT. Go back and reread the very original posting and you will see this excerpt: He said that to engage in dialogue, you have to at least acknowledge the possibility that god does not exist To tell a christian student (even by accident and unintentionally) that she has to stand their and say that her faith in her god is not complete, which is exactly what you would be saying if you stated that it is possible god did not exist, you are asking her to deny her god. Thus you are brining religion into it. And by telling her that she will not recieve popints (extra or regular does not matter) becuase she will not deny her god, is persecution. Considering a possibility is not denying anything. It is simply considering a possibility. Which IS a possibility. If it were, I would be denying everything. These people just like drama. |
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Philosophy class did not include/exclude religion, the OP and those posting here did. BULLCHIT. Go back and reread the very original posting and you will see this excerpt: He said that to engage in dialogue, you have to at least acknowledge the possibility that god does not exist To tell a christian student (even by accident and unintentionally) that she has to stand their and say that her faith in her god is not complete, which is exactly what you would be saying if you stated that it is possible god did not exist, you are asking her to deny her god. Thus you are brining religion into it. And by telling her that she will not recieve popints (extra or regular does not matter) becuase she will not deny her god, is persecution. Considering a possibility is not denying anything. It is simply considering a possibility. Which IS a possibility. If it were, I would be denying everything. These people just like drama. Considering the possibility that her beliefs might be wrong, is by definition stating her god is not correct, or omniscient, which would be denying her gods teaching that he is all-knowing. This she denies her god. |
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Philosophy class did not include/exclude religion, the OP and those posting here did. BULLCHIT. Go back and reread the very original posting and you will see this excerpt: He said that to engage in dialogue, you have to at least acknowledge the possibility that god does not exist To tell a christian student (even by accident and unintentionally) that she has to stand their and say that her faith in her god is not complete, which is exactly what you would be saying if you stated that it is possible god did not exist, you are asking her to deny her god. Thus you are brining religion into it. And by telling her that she will not recieve popints (extra or regular does not matter) becuase she will not deny her god, is persecution. "acknowledge the possibility" Create a concept, an idea opposed to your own. For the benefit of learning to think. Not deny that there is no god. Not declare that there is no god. But to look at the possibility of it. To explore that concept without ever endorsing it, without ever having to embrace it. Explore the idea, explore that man is a completely free agent. To think, as an individual. To formulate a concept. To think and explore a thought. NEVER HAVING TO ACCEPT, EMBRACE OR ENDORSE THAT THOUGHT, CONCEPT OR IDEA. Simply to explore it. Yes I see this as a devious form of conversion. Indeed to think that a person may learn to formulate an idea without it ever having to bear fruit of any kind. If this method is so effective perhaps it should have been used rather than extermination, diseased blankets, starvation, forced move from homelands and beatings in Residential schools. Surely such a devious method would have given better results. |
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Considering a possibility is not denying anything. It is simply considering a possibility. Which IS a possibility. If it were, I would be denying everything. These people just like drama. Choice was there, either do it or not. Considering a possibility is not denying nor implying anything, it's it just that a possibility. I agree. These wheels keep spinning but going nowhere, so I'm off to bed, good night all. 
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sun 05/11/08 08:38 PM
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Philosophy class did not include/exclude religion, the OP and those posting here did. BULLCHIT. Go back and reread the very original posting and you will see this excerpt: He said that to engage in dialogue, you have to at least acknowledge the possibility that god does not exist To tell a christian student (even by accident and unintentionally) that she has to stand their and say that her faith in her god is not complete, which is exactly what you would be saying if you stated that it is possible god did not exist, you are asking her to deny her god. Thus you are brining religion into it. And by telling her that she will not recieve popints (extra or regular does not matter) becuase she will not deny her god, is persecution. "acknowledge the possibility" Create a concept, an idea opposed to your own. For the benefit of learning to think. Not deny that there is no god. Not declare that there is no god. But to look at the possibility of it. To explore that concept without ever endorsing it, without ever having to embrace it. Explore the idea, explore that man is a completely free agent. To think, as an individual. To formulate a concept. To think and explore a thought. NEVER HAVING TO ACCEPT, EMBRACE OR ENDORSE THAT THOUGHT, CONCEPT OR IDEA. Simply to explore it. Yes I see this as a devious form of conversion. Indeed to think that a person may learn to formulate an idea without it ever having to bear fruit of any kind. If this method is so effective perhaps it should have been used rather than extermination, diseased blankets, starvation, forced move from homelands and beatings in Residential schools. Surely such a devious method would have given better results. Yes Surely!!  Early Christians used to cut off the hands and feet of natives who would not convert. Surely they should have just taught philosophy and asked them to THINK and consider a different possibility. Surely this would have been a better way to PERSECUTE the natives than mutilation and torture. JB |
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