This thread is NOT about you. And if you do not like my threads, the solution is simple - DO NOT READ THEM.

Lindyy

Yeah, I get that, but the other thing is people are twisting the words. He never said you have to declare you are not religious or go against your faith. the comment that needed to be made is, I am ____________ I am not free, because I am determined.

No where does that imply to me he is making a religious implication. (Granted I wasn't in the class so I don't know if there was more to it but I don't think any of us were there.) Although that statement can cover other topics than just religion. The other issue is that I was trying to make is yes, what he did was underhanded. I am sure he was trying to do something he wasn't supposed to do. Although is a lawsuit really necessary. We in America fall onto lawsuits for everything nowadays.

......
I don't know. I just get mad at all the lawsuits filed over issues that really don't need to be as dramatic as people try to make them.



You need to READ the entire post and not take things out of context:

The professor has not only docked her grades - he has also repeatedly derided Gina for her faith.

Does ''derided'' seem too strong a word? Decide for yourself: He has called her ''close-minded",''uncritical,'' ''hurtful,'' and ''blinded by belief'' simply because SHE WOULD NOT ADOPT HIS WAY OF THINKING. (emphasis -all caps- by Lindyy)

He said that to engage in dialogue, YOU HAVE TO AT LEAST ACKNOWLEDGE THE POSIBIBLITY THAT GOD DOES NOT EXIST! (emphasis - all caps- added by Lindyy) Also, students could opt out of the final if they would PUT IN WRITING THAT 'WE HAVE NO FREE WILL')(emphais -all caps- added by Lindyy)

When one's rights are being taken away from them, well that is when the Court steps in!

Lindyy

Amen!


Fanta, go study your calculus.

Fanta: Would you care to start bashing the Pope now?
I do not even need to say one word in defense of The Reverend Billy Graham, the greates evangelist of modern day.

Why not go on up one day and visit his home, his library, the Cove which is for teachihng the gospel to other Christians.

Go, Fanta, go talk to The Reverend Billy Graham, or perhaps his son, Franklin Graham, who has a ministry "Samaritans Purse" which ministers to people in the US and all over the world for things such as, the recent tornadoes in Virginia, they sent tons of relief necessities and counseling to help those in need.

Go talk to him Fanta. Or are you afraid to face someone so dearly beloved by the Lord?

Lindyy

Matthew 10:33
"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven."

Daniel, you are so very right! Thank God for your knowledge and understanding. Yes, God has given each and everyone of us a 'free will' He allows us to either accept Him or reject Him, He will not force Himself on anyone.

This is exactly why that professor did what he did - he knew he would be making people DENY Christ. What a VICIOUS VIPER that professor is.

And, everyone on here who thinks it was not such a bad thing to make the student do - sign a paper denying their faith in God- they quite obviously were totally fooled by this professor, because they are NOT Christians. If they were, they would have been able to see from the get go what that professor was really up to.

Lindyy

Fanta, you still did not read the whole thread, did you? Her college REQUIRED the philosophy class. And that professor knew what he was doing by offering that statement to be signed to those who did not go with his beliefs.

Lindyy

I don't sit with a bible by my computer, and I never saw the purpose of becoming a "chapter verse quoter." (actually that falls under vanity) But if I do recall correctly, and I should look this up, Christ warned all his disciples (that means you and me brothers and sisters) that we will be persecuted for our beliefs. That applies to all times and we as Christians should expect it. The day it stops, you might want to start wondering if you missed the rapture.

FANTA! Why are you deliberately misconstruing things? Gina has a 3.9 grade average.

What is wrong with you?

Lindyy

Sir: Have you ever heard of the words INTEGRITY, HONESTY, CHARACTER, TRUSTWORTHY, CONSCIENCE?

Lindyy

it all boils down to personal morals. Not too many people have very many of them anymore. I am not saying you or anyone else here does or does not have any, I am just saying they are different for each person, and a persons individual morals need to be respected, at the very least.

And as far as wether or not I have said anything I didnt mean?
Yes I was a child once. I like to think I have grown past the "little white lies" and such that don't hurt anybody. If I don't mean it, I won't say it. And I am not referring to typos and such, or somethign being heard and misunderstood from what I meant.
For example, if I think Lindi is goo dlooking (which I do babe) then I will tell her so. Damn you look good hun. If I think you look foolish in a pear of red velvet pants, with a yellow shirt, I will tell you so if I feel like it (anyone wearing that combination would look foolish to me, lol). And finally, if a big three hundred pound biker giant that looked like animal off of the old show "the muppets" had breath so nasty that it made me sick to my stomache? I would not say a thing unless he asked first. Then I would tell him "I am sorry, but yes you do need a breathe mint... Please don't hurt me too badly

Seriously though, I say what I mean, and I refuse to say something I dont mean or believe. And I for one, am not the only one out there who follows this line of thinking. And if someone were to tell me that I had to make a statement that went against my religion, the way the one Gina's proffessor did, I would file a complaint and then whatever else was needed to get it corrected as well.

And with this all being said, I say a big AMEN.

Lindyy
PTL

That's just it, this proffessor intentionally did what he did in a way as to try and make it as ambiguos as possible so he could get away with it.

As you said your intro to phil description stated what it did. It did nto even once mention that you had to ccept as truth or fact that yuor own personal beliefs could be wrong. And you do not have to have the belief that you MIGHT be wrong in order to study different (wether they are historical or not) beliefs and religious structures.
I love the study of different religions as it teaches me more about the people that follow them. However nothing will change my belief that what I believe is correct. BUT, I will not sit there and dictate to you that just because I feel I am right , means you are wrong either. Which is exactly what this professor did. He based his grading off the fact that he felt her refusal to agree that he might be right was against his own belief structure, and thus tried to punish her for it.

And perhaps people are trying to come up with an idea that fits around the basis that all college profossors are honest and moral...

yes, that is true, however online message boards from colleges and universities have been used before in order to try and show basis for a reasoning. What is to say this professor was not intending to do that for a paper HE was involved with? To make an offer most students would jump at (make a statement and get free points), and then use it as a basis for his thesis?

Sorry hun but I do have to correct one thing you say. Just because they did nto understand what theyw ere doing, or chose to do it anyway, does not mean they were not christians. Nobody is perfect, and everyone sins, sometimes intentionally. But htey are still christians. The defining aspect of being a christian, is someone who believes int he teachings of Jesus Christ and do their level best to follow them and promote them witht he way they lead their own life.
This as I said, just because someone does not understand, or does understand and chooses to do the easy path, doesnt meanthey are nto christian.

yes he did state exactly that, that we always would be persecuted and should expect it. However he did not go on to say that it would be all right to deny him or his teachings. In fact that bible is full of stories about where Christians (martyrs some would call them) did nt let persecution stop them from following their belief in Christ, or his father, our God. They refused to bend down to any local or national authority in order to even save their own lives.

ok, finally I am all caught up with the thread again, lol...

see ya l again late ron

soundslike a crazy conspiracy theory to me

That professor was attempting to get people to open their minds enough to engage in conversation. Philosophy is about ideas.

If you (any person) don't want to open your mind, that is your choice, but like he says you are "determined."

That is a nice way to say that you (any person) are closed minded and stubborn, but nevertheless it is true of some people.

If you (any person) are not willing to consider the possibilities you are closed off from ideas and this is what being closed minded means. Now you have taken a position and you won't budge and you are not able to have a conversation. All you will have are arguments.

Although I don't like the way some College's are teaching, I understand what the professor was doing.

But that student was just angry about not getting the extra points. She is in the competitive mind set, competing for grade points. She could have bowed out gracefully and passed the course and continued moving forward with her life.

A few extra points on her grade is a small price to pay for staying true to her lord and savior who died on the cross in agony for her, but she acted like a spoiled brat because she wanted the extra points and was greedy and jealous and envious of the other students who got the extra grade points.

I am not saying that what the professor did was right or wrong but in a philosophy class you cannot have an intelligent conversation at all if you have students who will not consider any opinion but their own as having any merit.

All you would get is argument and class disruption.

But having said all of this, I think you should know that this is NOT "persecution" by a long shot.

It is all about a competitive student who was jealous of a few extra point she could not get because she failed to realize that she has blocked herself off from communication because she insists she is right, won't even consider anything else, and she thinks she would be denying her faith to even consider any another point of view for the sake of a conversation.

I consider other points of view all the time and it does not effect what I choose to believe it only improves my knowledge of what is truth.

I do think that a philosophy class that conflicts with religious view should probably not be a required class, but nevertheless, she could have still passed the class and at the same time remained stubborn (true) in her faith.

JB

It isnt, and I went to the source. The college Gina went to.
I found all kinds of interesting information. I even found letters rom students who took the same class as Gina, about this very topic.