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| Topic: Christian Persecution - an aggresive cancer growing rampantl | |
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He said that to engage in dialogue, YOU HAVE TO AT LEAST ACKNOWLEDGE THE POSIBIBLITY THAT GOD DOES NOT EXIST! (emphasis added by Lindyy) Also, students could opt out of the final if they would PUT IN WRITING THAT 'WE HAVE NO FREE WILL')(emphais added by Lindyy) I thought that was an awesome remark since the possibility of God existing and the possibility of God not existing equally negate themselves. I think the student gave up too soon. I think that she should have stood her ground. Maybe she felt intimidated by Lindy. Philosophy is wonderful. I learned that with every action there is an opposing reaction. Maybe she was a pacifist.  Rainbow, I think you misunderstood some of my original post. The ACLJ is now defending Gina. They wrote a 14 page legal memorandum to the college regarding this and are awaiting a response from the college. She has NOT given up!! She went to the ACLJ and now they are fighting for her. (American Center for Law and Justice, founded by Jay Sekulow, about the best civil rights and consitutional attorneys in the US. I had nothing to do with this case. I just started a thread on how Christians are being persecuted in our schools and colleges. I support the ACLJ and I get updates from them on what is taking place. Lindyy  |
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This is a repeat post. WRONG, there are many stories like this one that the ACLJ has handled. What's wrong dragon, does this exposure upset you and your liberal ways? If you feel it is a repeat, SO WHAT? Why bother to post other than to spew off your hatred for Christians. http://www.aclj.org/ go read for yourself. Lindyy If there are so many of them why post the same thing twice? I already commented on the other one of the same and had no need to repeat myself. If she had followed the rules to begin with this would not have happened to her. Religion is to be kept out of public institutions because of respect. Not everyone is religious nor are they the same religion as she is. Respect. Keep religion at home where it belongs and there will be no problems. Ah, Dragon doth thou spew repeated posts of castrating our government, our military and impeaching the president...why do you persacute the OP for the very things you and Madman do???????? I did not say anything about her other than she posted the exact same thing last month. What is your opinion of the OP, after all that is what you are supposed to post on here, right? If you have a personal issue with me please feel free to mail me. Otherwise, stay on topic. Duhhhh, he did stay on topic. You are the one who went off stating this was the exact same thread done before. After all, you yourself have done the exact same thing. Like you are doing right now. Duhhh Lindyy
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Such are the winds of change and advancement. That was a horribly biased story. Makes me wonder how much it has been changed? http://www.aclj.org/ No story, sir, lawsuit in the makings. Whoever you are, go to the ACLJ site and prove what an uneducated person you are. This is a case that the ACLJ is handling; believe me, that tremendous 'constitutional rights' firm does not take anything unless it is thoroughly investigated. And, why do I have the feeling you will never go to the site as you do not want to hear the truth or have it exposed to the citizens of this country.  Sorry, it is being exposed, TV, radio, newspapers. Sorry Charlie. Lindyy Wake up, and just how chistian is it to have a pic like the one you have? Put 'em away grandma and stop trying to make it seem like your way is the only way. Everyone does not have the deeply rooted beliefs that you do. Some of us are actually free thinkers! My dearest sir: This thread is about Christian persecution. If you do not like it, go to another thread. That simple. YOU cannot jump in and hack up my thread. READ THE FORUM RULES! Lindyy |
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I would think if you are at college ,you would be open to listening to other points of view .doesn't mean you have to agree with them.If the student wanted to hear one point of view she should have gone to Oral roberts University or something.Philosophy is about all points of view not just one religion.Besides the article sounds bias. CLDMom: Go to the ACLJ website I posted in my original post. CLDM, ACLJ is a huge law firm that defends people's civil and constitutional rights - specifically all the way to the U.S.Supreme Court!!!! She did NOT go to study philosphy at that college, it was a REQUIRED course that she had to take. Philosphy is one thing, degrading and insisting that students believe what the professor says is a big NO NO, thus the impending lawsuit. She is entitled to voice HER opinion. That is what the professor is upset about, HE does not like HER Christian approach. Tooooo tooo bad for him. Now the college is facing a lawsuit from one of the most aggressive fighters for constitutional rights/freedoms. Lindyy |
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This is a repeat post. WRONG, there are many stories like this one that the ACLJ has handled. What's wrong dragon, does this exposure upset you and your liberal ways? If you feel it is a repeat, SO WHAT? Why bother to post other than to spew off your hatred for Christians. http://www.aclj.org/ go read for yourself. Lindyy If there are so many of them why post the same thing twice? I already commented on the other one of the same and had no need to repeat myself. If she had followed the rules to begin with this would not have happened to her. Religion is to be kept out of public institutions because of respect. Not everyone is religious nor are they the same religion as she is. Respect. Keep religion at home where it belongs and there will be no problems. dragon: OH, what happened to me? Did I miss something somewhere? Your post is soooooooooooooLAME. WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, YOU ARE NOW IN TOTAL VIOLATION OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT - FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND FREEDOM OF RELIGION. Who, in the name of God are YOU to say where religion belongs? HA. Your opinion my dear, does not and NEVER will rule or run the USA.  So sorry Charlie. My oh my, I would think you would know better than to try to make YOUR wants the law of the land. The entire post I orignially made was regarding a federal lawsuit, and there are tons of cases like 'Ginas.' I know, I know, you just cringe at the thought of someone practicing their right to freedom of religion and freedom of speech. I refer you to the First Amendment of the USA. Linndyy LOL, freedom of religion guarentees that noone will be prosecuted for their choice of religion it does not say that everyone has to be a part of their religion. Nor does everyone have to listen to it daily or at a public institution. Nor does everyone have to like their religion, agree with their religion, want to be converted to their religion, etc.... So whatever you want to say but keep the religion at home and private like it is supposed to be and there will not be silly law suits about religion. dragon: ??????????????? NO ONE ON EARTH has to follow YOUR rules. Where in the name of God do you come up with this jibberish? Gina's freedom of speech and freedom of religion rights are extremely violated by this college professor! Go read the First Amendment. I think you need a brush up course. Lindyy |
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Gina was posed with the difficult choice of either violating her religious beliefs by publicly declaring, “I am Gina. I am not free because I am determined” or being penalized by failing to receive extra points like her classmates. Although most or all of the rest of the class made the required statement and took the points, Gina chose to adhere to her faith because she could not, in good conscience, make that statement. This was extra credit, and Gina made a choice. She was not penalized, as the story insinuates. She made a free choice, not forced, no points deducted, she just did not receive the bonus points. Not receiving bonus points is not a penalty! If she truly stood by her convictions then this would not even be a question. Sounds to me like she is trying to force her beliefs on the school and the professor.  FANTA!! She stood by her convictions, that is why this suit started. The PROFESSOR WAS TRYING TO FORCE HIS BELIEFS ON HIS STUDENTS. DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Quite a breach of Gina's constitutional rights. Put on your reading glasses, PLEASE. Lindyy |
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Perhaps Gina should have went back to the dorm, said ten hail marys, and prayed for bonus points to be delivered!! Thats what a good Catholic would have done!! Fanta, Remind me never to stand next to you, lightening bolts from heaven are going to start shooting down. Not nice to mock the Catholic denomination, and I am a Protestant defending the Catholics. Lindyy
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Philosophy is Philosophy. It is not religion. The professor can have any opinion he wants, but I don't think he should be empowered to grade a person for where they are in their personal belief system. That is not a study of philosophy, that is indoctrination. JB Bonus points are just that JB- BONUS POINTS! He didnt have to offer them at all, and the participation or not isnt counted against a students overall grade. They can only help, not hurt a student! Fanta,this professor's way of conducting his class is discrimination. If she were not going to take advantage of his 'opt out' being FORCED to deny her beliefs is screaming of violation of one's first amendment rights. What do you not understand about this? RE READ my original post. Now because of this professor's stance, he has not only hurt a student, but the college itself - LAWSUIT TIME. Lindyy
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Gina was posed with the difficult choice of either violating her religious beliefs by publicly declaring, “I am Gina. I am not free because I am determined” or being penalized by failing to receive extra points like her classmates. Although most or all of the rest of the class made the required statement and took the points, Gina chose to adhere to her faith because she could not, in good conscience, make that statement. This was extra credit, and Gina made a choice. She was not penalized, as the story insinuates. She made a free choice, not forced, no points deducted, she just did not receive the bonus points. Not receiving bonus points is not a penalty! If she truly stood by her convictions then this would not even be a question. Sounds to me like she is trying to force her beliefs on the school and the professor. Then if she was not penalized she had nothing to complain about. If she is trying to force her beliefs on the school she is in the wrong. Maybe she should have asked if there was anything else she might do for extra points if she wanted extra points. Like clean the black board or something. JB JB, she was not given any other options for extra credit. If that were the case, there would be no pending lawsuit. Nice suggestion though. Lindyy
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Christian Persecution - an aggresive cancer growing rampant I would like to object to the title of this thread. First you spelled aggressive wrong. Second, it is an exaggerated statement. When I see Christians being rounded up and having their heads chopped off then I will agree to someone making a statement like this. You are simply stirring up trouble. JB jb that is your opinion, DON'T EVER tread on my constitutional rights - freedom of speech and religion!!!! I will name my threads as I see fit, thank you very much! Obviously you keep your head stuck in the sand! There are hundreds of cases like this going on in the US right now. I challenge you to go to the ACLJ site and read what they are doing, what courts they have cases in. JB, you do not get to the U.S. Supreme Court via nonsensical suits. Lindyy
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And its in the wrong forum......... Fanta: Wrong Wrong Wrong. It is current events - lawsuits and trials in appellate and U.S.Supreme courts ARE current events. They are in the news every day. Sorry to burst your little bubble. Lindyy |
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okay now lets discuss" when is it wrong to show cleavage?" Shhhhhhh. I told you it is a mid life crisis! Besides, you did not find someone to buy me any clothes. Lindyy
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if she had to "entertain the idea that God does not exist, to be fair the professor has to entertain the idea that God does exist" I'm sure he did. After all, that is what philosophy is all about isn't it? JB Excuse me. Were you in the classroom? Assumptions make and azz out of oneself. Lindyy |
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Mmkay, let's say that a professor offered extra credits to students who admitted the possibility of a God or Gods, that would be equally disappointing. College, like any school in general, is meant to teach people how to think, not what to think. My two cents.
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Mmkay, let's say that a professor offered extra credits to students who admitted the possibility of a God or Gods, that would be equally disappointing. College, like any school in general, is meant to teach people how to think, not what to think. My two cents. You're very right Jonathon! How are you? I disagree with people telling others what to do or how to live their lives. Makes no difference who they are. Be it christians or athiest school teachers. The whole idea, from my perspective anyway, is that the educational system should not be biased towards any particular belief system or against. |
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Lindy's version, Gina had PERFECT grades on her Philosophy class assignments - UNTIL SHE TOOK A STAND FOR HER FAITH, IN OPPOSITION TO HER PROFESSOR (emphasis by Lindyy). ========================================================== The articles version, Although Gina maintains a 3.9 overall GPA and did very well on the first few philosophy class assignments, ============================================================= Again Lindy's version, The professor has not only docked her grades - he has also repeatedly derided Gina for her faith. =============================================================== The article (Lindy's link) her grades in the philosophy course dropped significantly after the question of God’s existence and attributes became the focus of class discussion. Gina read the assigned materials and participated in class discussions, presenting traditional philosophical arguments on whether God exists and whether He possesses certain characteristics such as being all-knowing or all-good. =========================================================== No where does it say deride, or say why her grades dropped. The points were for extra credit, The professor stated that he would increase any student’s grade on a previous assignment to a 100 if he or she made the following statement on the course’s online message board: “I am _____________ (put your name here). I am not free because I am determined.” ============================================================== I could suggest that the young woman (Gina) was unable to open her mind and cope with an honest and open discussion regarding a subject she herself brought into the classroom. Of course this would be as wrong as Lindy altering the text of the article. An article of which she makes repeated comparisons to her treatment on here by other posters. Perhaps the young lady and Lindy do in fact have a lot of the same personality traits. The inability to separate fact from fiction and the inability to accept any other opinion than their own. Of course that is just my opinion! FANTA, AND INDEED YOUR OPINION REEKS OF TAKING OUT OF CONTEXT. My emphasis was merely putting in all caps important points. Nothing was changed around. Sorry,Charlie. I keep bursting your bubble. HERE GOES: The entire E-mail I received yesterday. You want to 'twist' out of context? I will make this post even longer to prove how wrong and condescending you have been toward this topic. "You shouldn't have to abandon your personal beliefs to get ahead in this world. You should never be labeled ''close-minded'' or ''blinded by belief'' just because you have chosen to follow Jesus Christ. Agree? If you do, the ACLJ needs your name added to our National Petition of Protest RIGHT NOW. What are we protesting? Today, college student Gina D. is facing just the type of blatant and divisive discrimination I described above in her Introduction to Philosophy class. And at the ACLJ, we strongly object (you can even read our demand letter online for all the details). And after you read the facts, I know you will agree that we cannot allow this situation to continue and spiral out of control. We are prepared to go the distance - to file a lawsuit, if necessary - to help Gina and other college students in similar situations across the country. But we need your help for maximum - and immediate - impact. Here are the facts: Gina is an excellent student. Her grade point average is a 3.9 out of a possible 4.0. She has good relationships with her professors at Suffolk County Community College (SCCC). Introduction to Philosophy is a required class for all students at SCCC. For the first several class assignments, Gina received perfect grades. That all changed when God and religion became prominent topics of class discussion and her refusal to compromise her Christian faith became apparent. Her professor, Philip P., has not only docked her grades ... he has repeatedly derided Gina for her faith in online class discussions, calling her ''close-minded,'' ''uncritical,'' ''hurtful,'' and ''blinded by belief'' simply because she will not adopt his way of thinking. He has also said that to engage in dialogue, you have to at least acknowledge the possibility that God does not exist. Add your name to our National Petition of Protest RIGHT NOW - as we make every effort to alert and inform SCCC and this professor of Gina's First Amendment rights and call for an end to this religious hostility. I'm sure you agree this is an outrageous situation. It seems this one professor is on a personal crusade to get his students to change their own personal viewpoints or state that they are unsure of whether their own personal beliefs are correct. Gina, a believer in Jesus Christ, is paying the price. In fact, we are getting calls from other students around the country facing similar discrimination. We hope all it takes to end this unfairness once and for all is tens of thousands of Petitions of Protest from across the nation to SCCC - calling on them to take immediate action. It is unconstitutional for a public college professor to make passing a required course contingent upon a student's willingness to express agreement with philosophical viewpoints that conflict with her religious beliefs. Sign your name to our National Petition of Protest NOW and use our website forward-to-friend tool to encourage your friends and family to join our nationwide campaign also. Read our demand letter online as well. I will keep you updated on the ACLJ's work to protect the constitutional rights of students around the country. Thank you. AND YES, I VERY PROUDLY SIGNED THAT PETITION!! Lindyy Proud to be a Christian and to Stand Up for My Christian Faith, no matter who attacks or tries to attack me!!
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 And its in the wrong forum......... I really dont mind though... Im going to convert Lindy one day... want me to get the hose ready? Franshade: Be careful with your wording and intent. That can be taken as a threat of personal attack. Just FYI. Lindyy
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if she had to "entertain the idea that God does not exist, to be fair the professor has to entertain the idea that God does exist" I'm sure he did. After all, that is what philosophy is all about isn't it? JB Excuse me. Were you in the classroom? Assumptions make and azz out of oneself. Lindyy Are you claiming then, that the professor was NOT willing to entertain the idea that God exists and he expected his students to entertain the idea that God does NOT exist??? Is this what you were saying? No I was not in that class. Were YOU??? JB |
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And its in the wrong forum......... Fanta: Wrong Wrong Wrong. It is current events - lawsuits and trials in appellate and U.S.Supreme courts ARE current events. They are in the news every day. Sorry to burst your little bubble. Lindyy Anybody with a lawyer can file a lawsuit. |
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!!!Hypocrite Alert!!!!
http://blog.au.org/2007/09/28/hypocrite-alert-aclj-decides-churchstate-separation-isnt-so-bad-after-all/ Over the years, TV preacher Pat Robertson has said some pretty mean things about the wall of separation between church and state. During a 2002 meeting of the Christian Coalition, for example, Robertson told the crowd, “We have had a distortion imposed on us over the past few years by left-wingers who have fastened themselves into the court system. And we have had a lie foisted on us that there is something embedded in the Constitution called separation of church and state.” Top Robertson attorney Jay Sekulow has echoed these attacks. In a 2004 article, he wrote, “Too often, the ‘separation of church and state’ phrase is allowed to take the place of our actual constitutional provisions.” He called it a “guise” to take away the rights of Christians. It came as quite a surprise, therefore, when attorneys with the American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ), a legal group Robertson founded, recently tried to employ the separation of church and state in their defense. ACLJ attorneys are representing the Rev. Jerry Sutton of Two Rivers Baptist Church in Nashville. A faction of 54 church members argues that Sutton is authoritarian and that he has misused church funds to pay for personal travel and his daughter’s wedding reception. The dissidents demanded to access to certain church records and were denied. So they went to court. The angry members say a Tennessee law that deals with access to the records of non-profit groups should apply in this case. Here’s where it gets interesting. Larry Crain, senior counsel for the ACLJ, is employing the separation of church and state in Sutton’s defense. |
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