And, those innocent Islamic Empires conquered the lands and pushed west into Europe by throwing flowers and hugging everyone they came upon.

Ridiculous. They were not wars of religion, they were wars of state power, responses to foreign intrusion, demand for greater influences, and desire for wealth coupled by greed. Religious institutions were just tacted on top of it all, religion just got carried along for the ride.

Of course the building of new oil refineries would be included in the drilling for oil. To not do so would make absolutely no sense. Problem is, like the environmentalist lobby that has put the notion in government that drilling is evil and killing us all, so have they argued even better that you can't build new oil refineries, which we haven't done so since the 1970s! We continue to only update the old, worn out refineries with new stuff. It's ridiculous.

What was the purpose of this? I'm sure to bring intelligent and deep discussions on the topic of a few a-holes in a force of over 500,000 that have served in Iraq. No, I doubt that was even slightly close to your intentions.

Talk about starting out with unsubstantiated propaganda. Is South Korea a democracy, how about Germany, how about Japan? Is Kuwait a legitimate sovereign government, how about Qatar? We have bases and presence in each. Iraq has a very complex government now, I suggest going on the government website to see just how complex it is. They even have an Environmental Ministry Division.

Can't seem to find the English version of the cabinets and ministries right now, but here is the Arabic version: http://www.cabinet.iq/

Iraqis are in full military control of over 9 of 18 provinces, and in full governmental control of them. We only provide the assistance to the officials and security. Many of those remaining to be secured are peaceful, but have not all the manpower in government and so forth to control it absolutely yet.

Foreign Investors are throwing millions of investments into Iraq for they see the security and feel there are great possibilities for returns on their investment in the Iraqi government, people, and businesses. They aren't just going to throw money into something they don't see great possibility in. These people aren't so blindly stupid to waste their own money. 500 million invested, at least 1 billion dollars invested by end of this year. - http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2008-06-16-iraqinvestment_N.htm

And, with the ever increasing rise of the Iraqi currency, the Iraqi Dinar, this shows that Iraq's economic and government successes are true. A rising currency that started at 0 is the sign of a country that will prosper. And, they will.

Violence is down in Iraq by huge percentages. Most of the countries provinces are nearly 100% violence free, if not totally. Sectarian violence is way down, and in fact, Sunni's are now actively participating in government.

Iraqis are now returning to Iraq in great numbers once having fled the violence. 1000 a day, and this is from November of 2007, and violence is way down since that time.

"An estimated 1,000 people a day are returning across Iraq's borders having previously moved abroad to escape the violence, Iraqi authorities say. " - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7105216.stm

If there is a civil war and it is all doom and gloom, they would not be returning in waves of a THOUSAND A DAY.

Iraq has paid every debt they've had, way ahead of schedule as well. They are becoming the economic success I know they will become and as many Iraqis and foreign investors see coming as well. - http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/jan/23/remarkable

Just like festivals and carnivals taking place in Baghdad, where the streets are full of people enjoying the festivities, kids running around enjoying it all, and no explosions to be seen, others are bringing out old hobbies, living the way they want, enjoying life and prospering in an Iraq that is very different from even 2 years ago.

Education is UP as well: "Education. Primary-school enrollment has jumped 20 percent over the Saddam years, according to the Brookings Institution's Iraq Index." - http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2005/dec/06/20051206-091140-1752r/ And this article, report from the Brookings Institution was from 2005! Much is for the better since then.

The news from Iraq, though not rosey with gumdrops, is VERY good and impressive considering what they came from and what they've gone through.

Iraq is successful and will even be more successful in the future.

Exactly. I would have argued the exact same thing, but whatever I post nowadays gets blasted by the most intolerant replies. Hope the same doesn't happen to this one for it is the truth. Though, when people here most often believe that a black conservative is most likely a self-hating black man or someone who sold out their race you got to wonder. What Rush said wasn't politically correct and good for him, political correctness is becoming far too rampant in the media nowadays and it a dangerous thing to avoid looking into something real for fear of being labelled as something you're not.

And, Obama has an extensive economics background? What?

Mccain MUST put Romney in the VP slot for the economy aspect.

I'm guessing you meant Iran, not Iraq. The way you are saying that "doesn't like America taking whatever they want," you are forgetting something. It is the UN who is imposing these sanctions and restrictions. Not just the US, but many countries all around the world that make up the UN as well, including all of the EU. We are not imposing OUR will, there is a collective congregation of will to stop Iran from enriching uranium that can be used for nuclear weapons.

How can you say all I care about oil being produced in Iraq when I just said, in my previous post, "Iraq has always been a far more diverse economy than just oil as well, and should it go into full production and trade it will assist to the future rise of the world market, which will happen in time." You are distorting my words and not understanding my reasoning for the hope of a success of the Iraq economy.

Iraq is a democratic state, and now I hope it becomes the economic powerhouse that it can be as well. This will lead to a rise in exports of oil and other goods that will contribute to the world economy, and many goods will flow into Iraq as well. Iraq will become a very rich country with its oil production. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis will have middle class jobs in the oil sectors, trade sectors, energy sectors, shipping sectors, technology sectors, and so forth based around oil and their diverse economy. The Iraqi education system is good, it has always been so. Iraqi has always been an advanced technology country as well.

High-Tech Iraq on the rebound - http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006

This boom in oil exploration, drilling, and shipping will enrich IRAQ and enrich the Iraqi people. Massive middle class citizens will be a high buying, spending, and investing society that will make Iraq a gold mine. The citizens there by majority will live in a true democratic capitalist state, even more than Kuwait who were considered a long time as the model for democracy of the Middle East. Thank you western influence, especially that of the US. Democratic influences bring prosperity and happiness for the citizens of those countries.

Allowing a free people to live freely, having free will, and with the entrance of multiple private sector markets that will bring them economic success and betterment to their lives, I believe it was a good thing and will be a good thing when Iraq becomes the next rich, oil rich, technology rich, trade rich country of the Middle East and world.

Massive credit card debt is the government's fault, didn't you know Chaz? We are a blame everyone but yourself society, a spend till your pockets are empty society. This was not the case until the '90s. Something drastically changed. People buying homes, second homes, way outside their ability to afford is the government and private sector's fault as well. And, people amassing huge credit card debt is surely the lenders fault as well. That's bull.

Yes, there were criminals in the lending institution, but it was extremely limited. The home buyers, just like credit card users, were given precise documentation on how much they would have to pay in monthly mortgage payments and loans. They knew exactly what they would need and willingly went with it.

What does the left do as a result of what has happened?

Blame mortgage lenders and credit lenders. That is ridiculous. It is blaming anything but the source of misery. The people brought this on themselves. The credit card companies and mortgage lenders did not hold guns to their heads telling them to spend. They did so very willingly, and very over indulgently.

The people knew all too well they had not the money to afford what they were buying and yet kept on spending.

Russia, China, Canada, and other countries jump on the opportunity to tap their untapped oil reserves and our government dismisses allowing the private sector from doing the same as unnecessary and with no benefit. Huh?

Calling Israeli Jews child killers makes you look real good, especially considering you reside in Egypt.

Insults are different than direct personal attacks. Insults when someone says "NeoCons rule the world and Bush put you on a terror list" and I respond calling that an "ignorant statement" could be considered an insult, but it has warranted stances with the definition of ignorant. They cannot base it on any evidence and thus fill the definition. It is not politically correct, but it is not a direct personal attack on the individual.

MY attacks, counterarguments, NEVER go after the individual person. You attack my age, my education, experience. People ask me if I'm a Jew. People insult my social status making claims. And, just general insults and assumptions they do not have reason to use, labelling me into groups centered around the very harsh opinions they have for them.

I don't agree ideologically with socialists, communists, liberals, but I never hold the same connotations as others do when they call people a NeoCon or Zionist. They consider those people the most evil, cruel, dangerous, murderers and so on. It is an offensive, very bigotted connotation to say "You're a Zionist, You're a NeoCon." My saying "You're a liberal" or "You're a socialist" doesn't even have a slightly close same level of negativity for I view the ideology as flawed though sane, legitimate and so forth, no harsh opinion of the morality or being of that person that people use with the other rightwing labelling.

I have never had a "nasty" attitude. I have never, like yourself, gone off on a pure personal attack in result to someones presentation of argument or sources. Unlike yourself, who is never wrong and believes they are far superior intellectually than myself, STEVE COLL AND COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY, a thread you disappeared from when you called the Pulitzer Prize pretty much an illegitimate award by likely republican neocons. You hold yourself on a platform of superiority among all others of this forum and anyone who differs from your opinion quickly gets a label (usually NeoCon, a label that does not stick) and attacked personally.

I do not accept your apology for you have not done this once, twice, just tonight either. You've been doing this for weeks and longer now. Calling people sheeple, NeoCons, robots, Zionists, propangandized fools and so forth over and over again. You will NOT see the same from me. The only direction of label upon yourself I have given is following your attacks first, or when I call you a "shill" for Obama. If you look up the definition and the fact that Progressive sites linked lobbyists to Obama you huffed and puffed, pretty much said they were lies (from Progressives mind you, Obama's own side of the spectrum), and outright left the thread after further insults. If you look up the definition of a shill it is a label that befit your stance, and isn't exactly negative, but shows that there is obvious unwavering bias based on extreme loyalty.

There is so much more that is all wrong with you're attempt to say "hey you're as bad as me" or "I'm a victim too". I don't buy your apology one bit. It doesn't add up. You suddenly apologize after you not only personally attacked me and threatened a joy of violence, but you did it excessively so in a short span. I truly believe you are playing the card that you want to cover your butt from the punishment for breaking a whole series of forum rules tonight. You can prove me wrong by a new direction in your responses by choosing not to continue the one-liners where you insult with the sheeple, robot, NeoCon, or other usual jargon than my opinion of your intentions will change as well. But, till then, unless you post at length (which your post about oil is the first one in a long time you posted at length based on your own opinion, suspicious for timing when surrounded by tonight's events) on topics I will not expect a change in your tactics and so forth.

Now, I'm really off to bed.

Anyways, I've said what I need to on this topic. And, I'm off to bed. I know many people personally and myself included who would jump on the opportunity to enter into energy fields of oil and natural gas if there was a huge increase of employment opportunities and benefits.

Yes, an efficient alternative source that far exceeds the benefits of oil will be necessary. But, we do not have it yet, and until than for the security and surviveability of our nation and people we must get massive amounts of energy. Propane costs have doubled, natural gas has doubled, and gosh we all know how much oil has gone up. We need to drill for these reserves and with the technology we have today we can do so very safely.

Drills today can go down and then completely horizontal to the ground for many many miles, not ruining the natural environment whatsoever, but going deep underground where it effects absolutely no one. We need to allocate resources to energy sources (natural gas and oil) immediately before the next world world or international crisis occurs that disrupts our supply. It will happen for it has happened time and time again in history. Resources and natural commodities are necessary for the surviveability of our nation, the lack of it, it being cut off in the past, and the desire for it has caused the vast majority of conflicts throughout the span of human and animal history.

We are putting ourself in a very dangerous situation and unncessary danger by not tapping into the resources we have. Tap all our resources throughout the vast expanse of our country and invest heavily in the building of new refineries and energy industries.

We should have drilled decades ago, but most of it we simply could not reach before. We have far superior technology to drill vertically and horizonatally now, as well as better technology to draw it out of the ground. People keep saying "Peak Oil" and "Peak Natural Gas" yet they've been saying this for over a decade now. Everytime we are told we found the last big supply we seem to find another big supply.

This is true in the stretch of Ohio, New York, and Pennsylvania huge natural gas reserves and the huge oil reserves in the Green River Basin.

We have found it, and we will find more. But, with those two sources there alone we are talking decades of supply. Decades more to invest and develop true more efficient, cheap, and 'better' energy sources.

I'm here for debate. I want to solely debate the issues with concise arguments based on studies from outside sources and personal opinions backed by some experience or education. However, there are too many that choose to do anything but that, they will target individuals for personal attacks within the group or attack a whole group of people outside this group. It is childish, rude, and demeaning to what should be a friendly forum for agreeing and opposing minds to discuss issues of the day.

When people continue to deter such processes it really ticks me off that we can't act like educated grownups and debate the issues rather than target the individuals putting them forth for discussion.

Oh, so there are Republicans that are far worse than him, make him 'look like an angel', and so it isn't that bad that he ruins debates by resorting to solely based personal attacks against individuals of this forum or whole groups of people. It's all okay. They are mean, he's just rude, there is nothing mean behind it.

Give me a break. If he was a nice Republican, though I don't think you think there is such a thing, you'd be calling him an evil and mean person.

That makes no sense. I feel bad for having allowed people to ruin the thread starters original intent of the points he put forth for discussion. I put my own opinion in a lengthy arguments of opinion, based off of my studies, it was others who hijacked this for either tirades of a personal nature or defending highly improper before both as a human being and debater.

First, look up the definition of a bigot.

Then, look at his insults, personal attacks, threats, and language towards those who have differing opinions and there is enough evidence to argue he is.

Oh yes, ontop of all the other personal insults in multiple threads and the fact that he has no editted the post. It isn't humor, it is bigotry.

Threats? A Desire for violence dealt against me?

A personal attack. Not surprising.