Ps says.

Ps 22:2-4
O my El, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them
KJV
Now what did Yahshua do on the night before?

Matt 26:38-39

38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
KJV

He knew what was comming and right here is says not my will but yours?

This is not only Yahshua's cry but of anyone who is in the midst of dispair. How many times in trouble times have you looked to the heavens and say why me, why me,, Help me Yahweh please.

Yahshua was going through exactly what we would be going through if we knew our fate the next day as he did.

He was showinng us he was a man that was tempted yet never wavered. Had all faith and yet never sinned. Loved us so much he would die for us. Yahshua said himself.. No better friend does a man have than a friend who would die for him..

Is Yahshua are friend? Blessings..Miles

I know miles you do not think that Jesus is God we both agree on that. Unfortunately the majority of people who follow the life of Jesus think he was.

oh, debbie, thank you so very much
you are a very sweet lady

what an honor and a blessing
for such a compliment

Because Christianity is a proselytizing religion. Pure and simple.

They denounce human intellectual achievement (i.e. Science). They denounce the civil rights of those who do not believe in the things they believe in. And they have a tendency to sneer down at anyone who doesn’t accept their beliefs as a person who has not been ‘saved’ and doesn’t know God.

It’s definitely an arrogant religion.

And so people strike back for obvious reasons.

The idea that all men are inherently sinful is a negative demeaning view of humanity.

The idea that God’s creation (the material world) is somehow inherently evil is a negative view of creation.

Supposedly when God created the physical he “saw that is was good”, but now we are suppose to believe that to embrace the physical world is to embrace “sins of the flesh”. It’s just a bogus contradictive idea that flies in the face that God originally saw his creation as being “good”.

Also, the idea that God would have to send his son to be nailed on a cross for my sins is a demented idea. To accept that Jesus was nailed to a cross for my sins is to condone that act. There is no way that I’m going to condone nailing anyone to a cross to pay for my sins. I haven’t done anything in my entire life that would merit such sever punishment. To ask someone to be nailed to a cross for my sake is absurd.

The religion is an ancient crude mythology based on superstition back in a time in history when people believe that they need to make sacrifices to the Gods to appease them. They believed that the God controlled the weather, and plagues, and all manner of natural disasters.

It’s a very ancient way of thinking that doesn’t apply to modern times.



Any anger I might have with religious fanaticism is directed at its insistence on perpetuating ignorance, fear, superstition and a disrespect for the civil rights of others.

All of these things are extremely negative, and I personally don’t believe that any God would be behind such negativity.

Sure, the religion could be viewed from a positive side. But only if you are willing to put blinders on to all the damage that it does. I see it as being more damaging than good.

Even the very idea of a God as being a separate egotistical king ruling over his kingdom is a very human egotistical idea. I guess my understanding of a pantheistic view of God has served to enlighten me that there are better pictures of God to be had. There is nothing egotistical about a pantheistic God. The pantheist view of God is that God experience life through us. Nothing could be more intimate.

So I just see the whole religion of Christianity as being very obvioulsy manmade and egotistical as well as damaging . I think that’s sufficient reason to become angry with it.

This doesn’t even remotely mean that I’m angry with God. On the contrary, I don't see the religion as having anything to do with God whatsoever. I see it as being entirely a fabrication of man.

aawwww Vanessa it's only the truth.


And here rabbit I have another way for you to look at things. If I am a German and my mother is a German and my Father is a German....well there is no way I am going to be French. So you have God who has a son.....He is not a gentile, because God is God so therefore that makes Jesus who is God's son Jesus is God.

So many inherently judgemental people... to think that they are doing someone a 'favor' by praying for another when it is not asked... this is meant to display proof of God's existence within?

I posted the following in part in another thread, but I feel it definitely applies in this one...


My understanding of 'God' has evolved through my years lived. I am comfortable with the notion of 'God' being all that was, is, and ever will be... living within each and every one of us... experiencing through us... I do not believe that such a wonderful 'being' would be confined completely into one 'book'... As a result of this, I do not believe that the only way to 'find' God is through Christianity, or any other religion.

As a matter of fact, I am convinced that much of the writings contained in the Bible are very inaccurate descriptions of 'what' God is... the entire text, when taken at face value, completely displays a 'personification of God', applying physiological principles and conditions which require a physical existence... an explanation of what lived within the man who wrote the words.

Jealous?...

Angry?...

Vengeful?...

Hate?...

Loving?...

requiring sacrifices?...

Omniscient?...

'God's will'?...

'free will'?...

Unchanging yet...

Always changing?...

Compassionate?...

Infallible?...

Punishing future generations for 'sins' of past generations?...

Just?...

Forgiving?...

Unforgiving?...

Creator of all things?...



Every one of these notions can be found to be scripturally backed, with little effort.

None of which, when viewed in this context, which is unattached...purposefully unattached... can even begin to stand up to what IS known. One cannot be all of these things... Unless...

This world and it's teaching(s) can and often do place many things between one and what I believe God to be... not just through religion... there are individually great things that do happen as a result of one's maintaining faith regarding many religions... and SOMETHING ties it ALL together... It is my belief that there are truthes in each one... or at least the extended capability to find peace within.

Many, I believe, have been taught this notion of God being a separate entity from us... creating an infinite amount of ideas that we must aspire to for acceptance from 'Him' that, I truly believe, is so so far from being true.

My teachers have been many, my teachers have been few, and I make every attempt I can at stepping outside of a 'comfort zone' in order to gain further understanding... sometimes that can be harsh on one, providing there exists a strong emotional attachment to that which must be left behind as a result of not 'fitting' any longer... even if it fit perfectly at one time. Each successful step leads one to the next, and I measured by the completeness of peace within.

I believe that if one can recognize that which has been learned throughout life that steals one from themself... the teachings that lead to and perpetuate the belief of God being separate from one... it is the beginning of the path to enlightenment.
The only direction to look in order to assess what one has accepted as being true is within. All of one's beliefs are held within, along with the 'justification' of having held onto any given one. It can be a complex matter indeed, and one must be willing to face who they actually are... which may be far away from who they think they are.

It is my belief, that when one is truly at peace within... with no inner struggles about themself and who they actually are, that inner peace cannot help but to be displayed, and shows the world the love of God that is within all of us, should we be willing and able to 'find' it.

It is within us... each and every one of us misplace it during life, and may find it again later through a variety of means...

It is God's peace... complete and total... it is the true evidence of 'salvation' from the worldy fingerprint which robs one from themself.

Thanks for putting this in here CS it is very cool. I really connect to a lot of it.

yes, Debbie I agree with your analogy
very well put thank you so much for that



i also thought when i was reading your post


Who is this Humble Man?
Jesus the Christ
who walked on water and stilled the storms
where even the seas obeyed Him...
who healed the sick and afflicted
Who made cripples walk again
and who raised the dead

and who's birth was so important
that all history is determined to be
either before or after the birth Of Christ

He was either
the greatest magician that ever lived


or He is as the prophecies speak
the resurrected glorified Son
of the Living God
{defying mere human logic}

who is also God Himself
the written logo and manifestation
of God the Father



I believe that He is God

creativesoul


Yahweh calls us his adopted sons. How many of those traits do you show to your chilren who are young? Yahweh created us in his image and we have alot of his traits. As Proverbs says a father who does not discipline his son,hates him... Why is that so? Blessings...Miles

"So many inherently judgemental people... to think that they are doing someone a 'favor' by praying for another when it is not asked... this is meant to display proof of God's existence within? "




answer :


what do you know of what we think?
you are not in our brains or hearts

you do not know our intentions or
what is required of us, as Christians

Amen Brother!

From my point of view all that Christianity is asking me to do is to believe that the writings of ignornant ancient men represent God.

No way, am I going to buy into that idea.

Miles asked:


creativesoul


Yahweh calls us his adopted sons. How many of those traits do you show to your chilren who are young? Yahweh created us in his image and we have alot of his traits. As Proverbs says a father who does not discipline his son,hates him... Why is that so? Blessings...Miles



<<<<<<< Miles, I would never intentionally offend anyone, and it is going to be rough for me to answer you without, I fear. I will do my best... please understand that this is not personal.

That is said because it is true. Discipline, however, is quite subjective. Effective discipline brings about the best in the child... promotes growth and inspires the child to be great things. A Father who hates his child does not care enough to spend the necessary energy and effort to encourage the growth within the child... which is done through only love.

Moreover, it is written from the heart of Solomon... in which God lived. >>>>>>>


Rapunzel concluded:

what do you know of what we think?
you are not in our brains or hearts

you do not know our intentions or
what is required of us, as Christians

<<<<<<< Rapunzel I never said I spoke for you. The question mark I used indicates asking. Why would you insist on saying amongst yourselves that you would pray for another without their consent?

You may be quite surprised what I do know about what is required in Christianity, from my own experience... which version do you speak of?

Allow the world to want what they see when they know that God is living within you...

I saw judgemental thoughts... based on assumption... and backed by belief... >>>>>>>

I so agree with you Michael!

People often think of discipline only in terms of punishments and reprimands, but that is such a shallow empty view. A wise man teachers discipline through love and encouragement. And surely God would be wise. Therefore God would always teach man via love and encouragement and never via punishment or reprimand.

The fact that the God of the Bible behaves in this way is evidence, to me, that the bible was indeed written by mortal men with their own frail ideas of how to accomplish things. A God who would behave the way a human father might behave is no God at all.

another reason god in these writings seems so harsh is his punishment is that this society lived in a desert. That type of existence must call on very rigid forms of discipline just to survive on the limited resources available.

You Bible quoter's always give me quotes that apply most to you. That is exactly why I must come in here and question Christianity. Stars shine brightest in the darkest of night. Perfect.

I believe that it was no different then than it is now...

An authors words display that which lives within the author, whether or not it is through the worldy fingerprint or as a result of connecting with God who is at the center and cannot be found by looking through the worldly fingerprint (teachings and acceptances which stop one from realizing that God is within each of us, stealing one from themself)...

An author's words display the author's acceptances... enlightened or not...

No disrespect, but the analogy is nonsensical, and the argument is a non-sequitur.

If my parents are of the same nationality, and they copulate to have me, then it follows I would be considered that nationality with 50% of my genes coming from my father and 50% from my mother. God has no nationality, did not copulate with anyone, yet creates a son who is considered (according to orthodox tradition) 100% human and 100% God. Moreover, the holy spirit is 100% God as well. Three persons as one. In other words, 3=1 and 1=3. Therefore, Trinitarianism is a logical disproof of this god.

Some Christians are modalists however. Modalism is analogous to saying God has three "modes" or "essences" like water can exist as a liquid, solid and vapor. That's NOT Trinitarianism though. If one doesn't accept the Trinity, then they're called heretics.

If interested, please help me understand. Thanks.

Rapunzel again concludes:

why in your opinion do i need
someone's permission or consent to pray for them?

i personally don't think that i need that permission..

does any one who criticizes Jesus or His People
have His Or their permission ?



<<<<<<< I never said that you needed anyone's permission, I asked you a question, which you have not answered.

Why do you insist on praying for another without their consent?

What purpose does it serve?

I see that you do not think 'permission' is necessary... THAT was never in question. >>>>>>>

Look at how many people on these forums have claimed to be "inspired" by God to preach his word! I know of at least four individuals who have actually claimed as much.

If they thought they could write a book and have it accepted as the word of God they'd be publishing it right this moment!

Ironically, all of these people have DIFFERENT VIEWS!!!

Either one or all of them are delusional. My guess would be that they are all delusional. Yet, to hear them talk, they swear that they speak the gospel truth.

This is a trap that human egos can easily fall into. What better way to claim to have the truth than to claim to speak for God himself?

It's a powerful delusion that many humans clearly desire to claim. Why should we not believe that the ancient authors of biblical stories weren't just as delusional?

So I'm in complete agreement with you Michael. The writings of men simply can't be trusted.

And in the case of the Bible there are even external reasons why those particular writings shouldn't be trusted. (i.e. many of the stories have been told in other mythologies)

In other words, we actually have evidence that many of the biblical stories were actually fabricated earlier in other geographical areas. What more evidence should we need to know that these stories are the fabrications of men's imaginations?