i just wanted to get you to say that God could do it....
because i think God could.

Things like this are only problematic if the story is believed. Once a person is able to become detached from the story and look at it from the point of view of men writing this story with an agenda, then things become crystal clear.

First off, these words were never actually spoken by Jesus. They were placed in his mouth after the fact, by men who were aware of the prophesy of psalms. From a historical point of view I have a very reasonable explanation for how the whole religion evolved.

There was indeed a rabbi named Jesus who stood up to the Roman oppression. He probably did preach peace, tolerance, and all of the morals that were claimed. He was clearly an innocent man just speaking out against Roman oppression in his own way. He confronted the authority of the Romans (which was to confront their church) because in those days the churches were indeed used to keep people under control.

One thing led to another and he got himself crucified, very possibly by refusing to confess that he indeed wasn’t sent by God.

The people made a martyr out of him and there were even rumors that he was seen after he had died. This is very common with famous people, even in modern times people still claim to see Elvis! The fact that people claimed that he rose from the dead should not surprise anyone.

So the people had made him into a martyr claiming that he was indeed God. The authoritarians wanting to regain control took the martyr and officially made him into a God represented by the church. In fact, the church became viewed as “The body of Christ”. So the authoritarians won back control using the very martyr that the people had created.

Many scholars have questioned who the writers of the New Testament really were. The story claims that these were the disciples of Jesus, but we have no way of knowing this. It is quite possible that these men did write down some things. But what is more likely is that the authoritarian church got a hold of those writings and re-wrote them to suit their own purposes.

Those who believe that that Bible is the “gospel truth” will of course not want to believe this. They want to believe that the story did happen precisely the way it says and that every word in the Bible is there because God inspired it, and so forth. But this is precisely what the men who wrote the Bible would like you to believe!

Modern people don’t seem to be fully aware of how much the churches were used to control the masses in ancient times. They see religion today as a personal choice. Even the modern churches are not out to control people. They are just remnants of the past. Leftovers from a time when religions controlled the thinking of men. The churches of today are just as naïve as the believers. The bought into the story.

There are so many reasons why I cannot buy into the story. The single most profound reason is simply because I can't believe that God is as petty as the biblical God is made out to be. I will really be disappointed in God big time if the biblical God turns out to be true. Such a God would not be far removed from the egotistical frailty of man. Such a God most certainly won’t be all-wise, nor all-powerful, not all-loving, nor any such grandiose notion. Such a God would be pathetically on par with humans.

I like to believe that God is far above this.

Redyculous ...

here i am up very late and the computer was shutting down

when i thought of something you had asked me...

this is your quote from the statement above

"Will you then extend a prayer for me. A prayer in which I will continue to find and feel such a complete wealth of joy and fulfillment, just as I am, without a deity in my life?"

You have made it quite clear that you do not
want to recognize God in your life or in anyone else's life...

You have chosen to have no affilation or relationship with God,
This is your desire and decision...
to not want any part of God in your life

i am wondering then ...
just exactly who were you suggesting that I pray to
for this awesome deity-less blessing in your life ???

I don't understand your desire for prayer
when you deny God
that seems to me to be a huge contradiction ...

I don't pray to anyone else but to God,
and it would not be nice or fair for me to pray to Him to
give you a blessing & happy existence that is absent of God...
cuz...
I know better than that,
and i do not wish that for your life.

I know it hurts God for His Children to disown Him ,
and turn their backs on him ...plus...I believe that
God is so present in your life,
even though you won't acknowledge Him
or give any credit to Him...


so with that, I am going to sleep......but before i do,
I will pray for God to reveal Himself to all those who
hunger and thirst for righteousness and to soften even
the hardest of hearts, and believe me, i am not exempt...

Actually God did not create religin (excuse spelling) Man did.

God laid out the 10 commandments showing man how to live in love. First and foremost love towards God the first 4 commandments and the last 6 love towards man. God takes the rap from people who do not take responsibility for their own behaviour.

There are those to who would rather say than humans came from monkeys rather than a all powerfull God full of love and forgivness. Rabbit you have a family name but many members the same is with God.

I personally do not believe in the trinity rather I believe in God the Father and God the Son (Jesus) and I believe the Holy Spirit is the power of God

Ceative soul

Shalom in Yahweh's name. I understand more where you are comming from. The scriptures say to prove all things. Then Yahshua said you believe the scriptures that they are life.
Questioning i have no problem with i sincerity which i am sure you are doing. Forgive me if i may of come off a little harsh. I believe science was created by Yahweh and that Abra's questioning is for our own good. Study to show yourself approved. So that you will beable to answeer any man. So everyone should understand that we should listen so that we can study to see what we really believe. What we can prove. That we are able to answer anyone at any time through the grace of the spirit that is in us. may Yahweh Increase Our Knowledge as We Seek to Learn His Ways....Shalom Miles

SOMEBODY'S RAISING THEIR KID RIGHT! (edit/delete)
SOMEBODY'S RAISING THEIR KID RIGHT! One Nation, "Under God."

One day a 6 year old girl was sitting in a classroom. The teacher was going to explain evolution to the children. The teacher asked a little boy: Tommy do you see the tree outside?
TOMMY: Yes.
TEACHER: Tommy, do you see the grass outside?
TOMMY: Yes.
TEACHER: Go outside and look up and see if you can see the sky.
TOMMY: Okay. (He returned a few minutes later) Yes, I saw the sky.
TEACHER: Did you see God up there?
TOMMY: No.
TEACHER: That's my point. We can't see God because he isn't there. Possibly he just doesn't exist.

A little girl spoke up and wanted to ask the boy some questions.
The teacher agreed and the little girl asked the boy: Tommy, do you see the tree outside?
TOMMY: Yes.
LITTLE GIRL: Tommy do you see the grass outside?
TOMMY: Yessssss!
LITTLE GIRL: Did you see the sky?
TOMMY: Yessssss!
LITTLE GIRL: Tommy, do you see the teacher?
TOMMY: Yes
LITTLE GIRL: Do you see her brain?
TOMMY: No
LITTLE GIRL: Then according to what we were taught today in school, she possibly may not even have one!
(You Go Girl!)


FOR WE WALK BY FAITH, NOT BY SIGHT" II CORINTHIANS 5:7


Don't forget to pass this on! I love this one. Everyone should send this to everyone they know, especially today with prayer restricted in schools. Forward if you believe in GOD!!!!

Rapunzel,

I respect you. You are a good person from my vantage point. Your heart is in the right place. So, my comments here certainly have nothing to do with you personnally.

If I write to you in particular, it is because I think you and I might be able to have this exchange, and get through it with a better understanding of a persisting situation which only creates division and acrimony between people on these forums.

The situation I am referring to, brings together a 'social radioactive' blend of prozelityzing, harassing, imposing, condescending and discarding of people under the intructions, and in the name of a god.

I don't mean to reactivate you with these comments, Rapunzel. I simply wish to establish that for a large number of good people participating in these forums, that is how this counter productive behavior 'christian recruitment' of some, is coming across. Not to be offensive, but simply to point out that 'being christ-like' might very much recruit more effectively, than performing this unsollicited canvassing drive.

In the context of this specific exchange you are having with 'redykeulous', I would just like to propose that I am witnessing an exchange between two of the most moderate, and well-intent participants keying along on these threads.

As you seem to imply yourself 'rapunzel', 'redykeulous' is a person with the best of dispositions. There is no urgent need to pray for her heart to be softened, no need either to urgently feed a metaphorical thirst or hunger for righteousness in her, and even less a need to have 'god' reveal herself to 'redykeulous'.

'redykeulous', like you 'rapunzel', is one of the blessed ones. Her heart is one of the most considerate and generous on these threads. Her relationship with 'god' is obviously strong. She is humble and welcoming of others in the purest form of 'impersonnal' rightousness.

All this to suggest that the two of you, are of the same fibre and spirit. You two are of the same 'team'. You just have a different coach!!! Not better, not worse, just different.

Rather than the usual 'wrestling' match, it would be fascinating to see the exchange truly redirected on a path of respect of each other's 'coaches', beliefs and view on things. I would be glued to my screen to read the ensuing 'converging, conversation that would emerge without attempts to recruit, or otherwise convert.

You are both saved!!! Speaking in high spirit 'together', rather than 'soft spiting' each other, would be an inspiring change.

It would simply require putting the 'recruitment' reflex aside. Not your faith, not your beliefs, not your 'coaches', just the recruitment reflex!!!

In all due respect to both of you.

Hello all;

I've spent the last 2 days plowing through all 23 pages of this thread (though I admit I merely glanced over the sidebar between miles and wouldee) and then went back to the original post.

Rabbit;

All through this thread you have "popped in" to chime with:
"My God, My God - why have you forsaken me" - and asked why Jesus had forsaken himself. Where did you come up with this conclusion? In your attempt to make a claim about a Christian Tennent (i.e. Jesus is/is not God) and subsequently attempting to use the words of the bible itself to prove your point that He is not, then you would serve yourself and others best by using correct exegesis. That is - to examine all of the scriptures that adress this issue, and draw a conclusion by it - not examine one scripture and sift it through your understanding of terms. It is obvious from your statements that you are unfamiliar with the concept of the "Trinity", so your idea of "God" being "individualistic" is confusing you in your idea of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit being representative of the same entity because they are all God, and there is only one God. So your interpretation of this as proving your point is a matter of not understanding your premise to begin with - else you are being disingenuous and trollish by claiming the concept to be something you know it is not. Also, you seem to be unclear on the concept of the incarnation. God becoming man. You attribute to Jesus the powers of the Father - rather than his being the instrument by which the Father declares himself. Again. Examine Wouldee's posts. This should give you a better understanding of the correct exegesis behind the sincere response to your initial post.

ahh, voileazur

thank you so much for taking the time to send such a sweet and thoughtful message...I appreciate it so much and i am very emotional and i wept when i read it,
and kindness or tenderness or the expression of emotion
certainly is not a sign of weakness ...

i have wanted nothing more than for people to put down the religion wars and find some common denominators...
that is all we can do...
I don't want to fight with anyone...
i so want to have peace with my fellow human beings
and love them for who they are,
respect their beliefs and have them respect mine...

i realize that people basically don't want anything crammed down their throat ...I don't like it either ...

maybe i could shed a little light from, my perspective...
Jesus never imposed Himself on anyone
and He even said in revelations 3:20

"Behold I stand at the Door {of your heart }
and knock
and if any man hears my voice and open the door
i will come in and sup with him and he with me... "


so, you see, in that scripture,
Jesus doesn't beat down the door of our house to come in..
He knocks and He waits for an invitation...

but there is also a scripture that comes to mind and i forget where it is now, but it does say....
"Go ye into all the world & preach the gospel of Jesus Christ"


so, I feel that it is a fine balance that is needed..We are told to preach the gospel , but the Lord does not want us to be pushy about it and it is hard to find that balance ...

thank you for your time.. I appreciate your insight in giving me your observations from a distance and more of an understanding and appreciation of Redyculous and please excuse me but i just don't always get the spelling right, no disrespect intended ...
and your name, too, Mr. {Whoever you call yourself } ,
I keep having to look at the spelling,
i cannot even pronounce it ..

i appreciate the time and energy
that everyone has put into this thread and
i hope that we can lay down the arms in the religion wars and find some love and peace and acceptance of one another ...


a broken arrow extended

an American Indian symbol of peace

with love and hugs

sister, i believe that is Mark 16:15

I'm feeling the love for sure........

Kojack...awww.. thank you so much

that is correct

i see you've got my back...

you are so precious and absolutely priceless

awww...Debbie

thank you
i think we are all making some positive progress

we are finally seeing the light
at the end of this very long tunnel

always have your back V you know that, or if you didn't you do now

muah muah muah Scott


thank you so much


kisses and hugs

right back at ya

there now

I have the most perfect answer to this thread.......

Jesus is God here is the proof!!!!!!!


Because God said so......

Praise the Lord!

the alpha and the omega the beginning and the end

the lily of the valley the bright & morning star

Ahhh scott and v and feral all full of the love....and hey thats what its all about......just kicking it feeling the love.