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| Topic: Jesus is not God here's proof... | |
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a broken arrow extended an American Indian symbol of peace with love and hugs    Thank you 'Rapunzel' for the 'broken arrow', the love and the hugs!!! And mostly, thank you for your hearfelt reply!
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SOMEBODY'S RAISING THEIR KID RIGHT! (edit/delete) Kojak this is the most ridiculous story ever .could you tell me what part deals with evolution??? |
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Hello all; I've spent the last 2 days plowing through all 23 pages of this thread (though I admit I merely glanced over the sidebar between miles and wouldee) and then went back to the original post. Rabbit; All through this thread you have "popped in" to chime with: "My God, My God - why have you forsaken me" - and asked why Jesus had forsaken himself. Where did you come up with this conclusion? In your attempt to make a claim about a Christian Tennent (i.e. Jesus is/is not God) and subsequently attempting to use the words of the bible itself to prove your point that He is not, then you would serve yourself and others best by using correct exegesis. That is - to examine all of the scriptures that adress this issue, and draw a conclusion by it - not examine one scripture and sift it through your understanding of terms. It is obvious from your statements that you are unfamiliar with the concept of the "Trinity", so your idea of "God" being "individualistic" is confusing you in your idea of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit being representative of the same entity because they are all God, and there is only one God. So your interpretation of this as proving your point is a matter of not understanding your premise to begin with - else you are being disingenuous and trollish by claiming the concept to be something you know it is not. Also, you seem to be unclear on the concept of the incarnation. God becoming man. You attribute to Jesus the powers of the Father - rather than his being the instrument by which the Father declares himself. Again. Examine Wouldee's posts. This should give you a better understanding of the correct exegesis behind the sincere response to your initial post. By your information here we can see there are Christians thats disagree with each other on just what is the nature of God and his Son. You happen to like Woudee's words. That does not make them right or convincing in any way. If you would like to put it precisely in your own words I would like to hear it. What do you think he was doing when he said that. Called out that he had been abandoned. |
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By your information here we can see there are Christians thats disagree with each other on just what is the nature of God and his Son. Actually I do not see the Christians in disagreement on the nature of God the Father and God the son. Who are you refering to? You happen to like Wouldee's words. That does not make them right or convincing in any way. Wouldee's exegesis is correct in drawing his conclusions. You may not be convinced - but that does not make him incorrect. If you would like to put it precisely in your own words I would like to hear it. What do you think he was doing when he said that. Called out that he had been abandoned. I do not equate forsaken with abandoned. There is a sense of permanancy with "abandoned", and as a matter of interpretation - what is translated is forsaken. I don't have anything to add to what Spider, Feral, Wouldee and others have said about Jesus taking on the sins of the world, and God turning away from Him at that moment. Jesus had always known an existance as being one with the Father - until this moment in time (which he experienced only through incarnation). There is much to be said of his quoting the beginning of Psalm 22. Something that every jew looking upon Him would associate with. For Psalm 22 is not a message of defeat and abandonment - but one of triumph and completion. Matthew and Mark - whose audience was primarily the Jewish race - is where you will find the quote you have sited in your OP. The passages of Jesus' death in Luke have Jesus crying out "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." And in John he says "It is finished." All the central message of Psalm 22. The fullfillment of the rightious sufferer in redemption of the creation. |
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You say "Jesus had always known an existence as being one with the father." So do you believe when he said "My God My god Why have you forsaken me?" How can he say that to himself. |
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SOMEBODY'S RAISING THEIR KID RIGHT! (edit/delete) SOMEBODY'S RAISING THEIR KID RIGHT! One Nation, "Under God." One day a 6 year old girl was sitting in a classroom. The teacher was going to explain evolution to the children. The teacher asked a little boy: Tommy do you see the tree outside? TOMMY: Yes. TEACHER: Tommy, do you see the grass outside? TOMMY: Yes. TEACHER: Go outside and look up and see if you can see the sky. TOMMY: Okay. (He returned a few minutes later) Yes, I saw the sky. TEACHER: Did you see God up there? TOMMY: No. TEACHER: That's my point. We can't see God because he isn't there. Possibly he just doesn't exist. A little girl spoke up and wanted to ask the boy some questions. The teacher agreed and the little girl asked the boy: Tommy, do you see the tree outside? TOMMY: Yes. LITTLE GIRL: Tommy do you see the grass outside? TOMMY: Yessssss! LITTLE GIRL: Did you see the sky? TOMMY: Yessssss! LITTLE GIRL: Tommy, do you see the teacher? TOMMY: Yes LITTLE GIRL: Do you see her brain? TOMMY: No LITTLE GIRL: Then according to what we were taught today in school, she possibly may not even have one! (You Go Girl!) FOR WE WALK BY FAITH, NOT BY SIGHT" II CORINTHIANS 5:7 Don't forget to pass this on! I love this one. Everyone should send this to everyone they know, especially today with prayer restricted in schools. Forward if you believe in GOD!!!! Dear Scott   I think that this is a perfect analogy
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a broken arrow extended an American Indian symbol of peace with love and hugs Thank you 'Rapunzel' for the 'broken arrow', the love and the hugs!!! And mostly, thank you for your hearfelt reply! thnak you so very much...  Voileazur that means a lot to me i really appreciate your compliments
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Again I say about the Kojak story point out which part is evolution? |
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i want to extend a lot of love, right now, to all of you good night & sweet dreams and may visions of sugar plums  dance in your heads 
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The statement remains Jesus is on the Cross and he says "My God My God why have you Forsaken me" If he is actually God how can he forsake himself? If he is not god for that few minutes why has he forgotten that he will be god in a little while. Is it amnesia? If he is quoting psalm 23 is he Fulfilling a prophesy or is he Just repeating a psalm that he knows will get attention. |
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The Jews at the time when Christ was killed knew their Bible. They would have recognized immediately the statement, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" as a direct quote from Psalm 22. King David wrote this psalm and he never experienced anything in his life that remotely resembled what is described in the verses. It is a foreshadowing of what is to occur - what will happen to the long-awaited Messiah when he comes. Any critical reader of the Bible at that time could have figured that out.
If you study the Bible in its entirety, you will find that it is one, harmonious and unfolding story. The Old Testament is full of foreshadowings that point to evidence that Christ is the long-awaited Messiah. (I'd be happy to give you more, if you are interested) These are provided as proof - so that those people, like yourself, can be SURE that you are putting your faith in the right person. I encourage you to keep asking questions....the Bible can hold its own....it is truth and has nothing to hide! And, God does not want you to disengage your brain...you can have faith in Christ AND use your brain..what a concept!!! Your question is a hard one. The concept of the Trinity is hard to explain because it is hard to understand. In short, though, at the time of his crucifixion, God the Father did turn his head on Christ. Not because he was no longer God, but because "He who knew no sin, became sin". God was turning his back on sin. God, in his perfection cannot allow sin to go unpunished. Christ's death was punishment for sin...our sin, past present and future. On Christ's end, here is a guy who has ALWAYS lived in fellowship and communion with God. Now, all of a sudden he is feeling guilt...a new feeling for him. But not just his guilt...the guilt of the entire world, on him at once. Of course he felt abandoned..and he was. But at the resurrection, he was raised victorious over sin. His relationship with the Father was restored and he was taken bodily to heaven to reign forever in majesty. What does this all mean? It means that all of us, no matter what we've done can ask God to allow our sins to be included in those that were defeated on the cross. Once you do that...hold on. Your life will change. It is an exciting ride that is never boring!!! Good luck in your search for the truth...keep asking questions!! |
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The Jews at the time when Christ was killed knew their Bible. They would have recognized immediately the statement, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" as a direct quote from Psalm 22. King David wrote this psalm and he never experienced anything in his life that remotely resembled what is described in the verses. It is a foreshadowing of what is to occur - what will happen to the long-awaited Messiah when he comes. Any critical reader of the Bible at that time could have figured that out. If you study the Bible in its entirety, you will find that it is one, harmonious and unfolding story. The Old Testament is full of foreshadowings that point to evidence that Christ is the long-awaited Messiah. (I'd be happy to give you more, if you are interested) These are provided as proof - so that those people, like yourself, can be SURE that you are putting your faith in the right person. I encourage you to keep asking questions....the Bible can hold its own....it is truth and has nothing to hide! And, God does not want you to disengage your brain...you can have faith in Christ AND use your brain..what a concept!!! Your question is a hard one. The concept of the Trinity is hard to explain because it is hard to understand. In short, though, at the time of his crucifixion, God the Father did turn his head on Christ. Not because he was no longer God, but because "He who knew no sin, became sin". God was turning his back on sin. God, in his perfection cannot allow sin to go unpunished. Christ's death was punishment for sin...our sin, past present and future. On Christ's end, here is a guy who has ALWAYS lived in fellowship and communion with God. Now, all of a sudden he is feeling guilt...a new feeling for him. But not just his guilt...the guilt of the entire world, on him at once. Of course he felt abandoned..and he was. But at the resurrection, he was raised victorious over sin. His relationship with the Father was restored and he was taken bodily to heaven to reign forever in majesty. What does this all mean? It means that all of us, no matter what we've done can ask God to allow our sins to be included in those that were defeated on the cross. Once you do that...hold on. Your life will change. It is an exciting ride that is never boring!!! Good luck in your search for the truth...keep asking questions!! WOW! What a first post.  Please stick around, you are much better at this than I am. |
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Thanks! I appreciate your encouragement!
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Edited by
Redykeulous
on
Thu 12/20/07 08:02 AM
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Repunzel
i am wondering then ... just exactly who were you suggesting that I pray to for this awesome deity-less blessing in your life ??? I don't understand your desire for prayer when you deny God that seems to me to be a huge contradiction .. Dear Repunzel, My point which you have totally missed, is simple. My whole life people have offerd to pray for me. I have always been willing accept the generous offer. The fact that "I" could be a thought in someone's mind, in a positive manner, even for just a moment in a day, is a great compliment to me, and to that careing person. But the point that has come up in many of these threads is not the sentiment as I have stated. Instead it is a sentiment that reflect an ego that feels superior, simply because, that person 'believes' they have somehow been designated some special and chosen of the God they worship. So when I hear the 'I will pray for you' AFTER the words of pity for me because I do not share your believe, to me that is a slap in the face from an ego that is greatly over extended. If I understand the Christian religion at all, then it is not for the faithful to pray for such things as the conversion of an unwilling participant. However, how could your god consider a prayer for the continued health and welbeing of a fellow human any less than a humble and respectable act? In the future if you must offer prayers, please offer them to support only the health and welbeing of those you pray for, do not pity them. Your pity comes from your God, I would not presume to pity you for what you believe. And if that belief makes you whole, makes you a better human being, I would be delighted to consider you in my daily meditations, for I BELIEVE that there is still power in a positive thought, even if it's only momentary. But consider that thought exponentially multiplied, if every person you have ever met considers you kindly for one moment in every day. Tis the season: "It's A Wonderful Live". THANKS KAT - you honor me and that moves me, YOU never cease to be one of my thoughts in any day. to all! |
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Ok - my last responce to Repunzel was before I completed reading the rest of the thread. I just felt compelled to respond as soon as I read her last reply to me.
So sorry Repunzel if my post seemed to be rehashing. Since Voil responded to you and you replied, I don't want you to think, I'm 'digging' in. So it is done! Thanks, Voil and Repunzel, I'm sure we would share many stories and have a much better understanding of each other with the freedom that sight and unhampered speech would provide. |
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You say "Jesus had always known an existence as being one with the father." So do you believe when he said "My God My god Why have you forsaken me?" How can he say that to himself. He didn't. It was directed to God the Father. |
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Ok - my last responce to Repunzel was before I completed reading the rest of the thread. I just felt compelled to respond as soon as I read her last reply to me. So sorry Repunzel if my post seemed to be rehashing. Since Voil responded to you and you replied, I don't want you to think, I'm 'digging' in. So it is done! Thanks, Voil and Repunzel, I'm sure we would share many stories and have a much better understanding of each other with the freedom that sight and unhampered speech would provide. Redy....i don't know your first name, i am Vanessa... i do wish you so well,. i do not harbor any malice towards you . i have no reason to, i spoke my peace and i told you how i feel and you told me how you feel... Now i think we could move on and at least be respectful to one another and agree that it is alright to disagree, as long as we maintain respect for the other person and give them the right to believe the way they do.. i have friends who are gay and lesbian, in fact a lot of people have moved in from the Bay area to the valley here inland because of the high prices on the coast ... so i have had interaction with people of all different backrounds and beliefs... i have a good friend 'Angel' who absolutely adores me like a mom , and she looks up to me so much and she is a 29 year old transvestite and i love her very much like a daughter... she is an extremely kind and loving sweet person and how could i not love her? i am fully heterosexual.... but that does not mean that i cannot or will not love my neighbors whose beliefs are different than mine..... So, there is a lot to me that i don't offer immediately or put down initially or automatically ... i always have said that i do not know everything and really no one on this planet does know everything , but i am to love my neighbors and God is the judge ... that is engrained in every fiber of my being and if i Love God like i say i do then i am to love my neighbors and to let God be the Judge ... i still don't know who you were suggesting that i pray to... i think that it is a very plausible, intelligent question to ask someone who has requested prayer, but who also admits that he or she does not believe in God...Isn't that what you have been saying? i read in your profile that you are an atheist, so i have a very innocent and poignant question for you? Who did me to expect me to pray to , since i believe in God, but you do not? i won't make a big issue of it, though, but it does raise my curiosity... i wish you so well, i am not egotistical and i guess we would have to walk in each other's shoes for at least a mile to even be able to begin to fully understand one another ... and i aappreciate voileazur in his messages of peace and of love..hugs to redy.. i really do wish you well, please lets' be at peace ;-) |
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The Jews at the time when Christ was killed knew their Bible. They would have recognized immediately the statement, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" as a direct quote from Psalm 22. King David wrote this psalm and he never experienced anything in his life that remotely resembled what is described in the verses. It is a foreshadowing of what is to occur - what will happen to the long-awaited Messiah when he comes. Any critical reader of the Bible at that time could have figured that out. If you study the Bible in its entirety, you will find that it is one, harmonious and unfolding story. The Old Testament is full of foreshadowings that point to evidence that Christ is the long-awaited Messiah. (I'd be happy to give you more, if you are interested) These are provided as proof - so that those people, like yourself, can be SURE that you are putting your faith in the right person. I encourage you to keep asking questions....the Bible can hold its own....it is truth and has nothing to hide! And, God does not want you to disengage your brain...you can have faith in Christ AND use your brain..what a concept!!! Your question is a hard one. The concept of the Trinity is hard to explain because it is hard to understand. In short, though, at the time of his crucifixion, God the Father did turn his head on Christ. Not because he was no longer God, but because "He who knew no sin, became sin". God was turning his back on sin. God, in his perfection cannot allow sin to go unpunished. Christ's death was punishment for sin...our sin, past present and future. On Christ's end, here is a guy who has ALWAYS lived in fellowship and communion with God. Now, all of a sudden he is feeling guilt...a new feeling for him. But not just his guilt...the guilt of the entire world, on him at once. Of course he felt abandoned..and he was. But at the resurrection, he was raised victorious over sin. His relationship with the Father was restored and he was taken bodily to heaven to reign forever in majesty. What does this all mean? It means that all of us, no matter what we've done can ask God to allow our sins to be included in those that were defeated on the cross. Once you do that...hold on. Your life will change. It is an exciting ride that is never boring!!! Good luck in your search for the truth...keep asking questions!! Amy ..welcome to the mix... wonderful message, thank you... |
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When God Turned away from Jesus as Amy said.......and for the reasons Amy said is of course right on. Which was stated throughout this thread.....But I think the cutiful rabbit is now happy in his own religion and doctrine....so alls well that ends well....
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This thread has a life of its own far beyond me. However if people come in here and make comments I feel it is my duty to respond. If God looked away Jesus would not all of the sudden forget his whole purpose. Saying that he has been forsaken means abandoned. There is no way that he could think that even without contact to god cause it was only momentary. Even if it was for three days he would still have enough memory to know that he will spend eternity with God. However after reading this whole thread I believe now the Jesus never said these words. So it is less of a problem. |
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