That is why I edited it.. but you beat me before I was finished editing.......




Sorry. :D

I'm like that. -.-

No I think that saying is about Santa Claus.

If God "sees" us, then he must have eyes. (Maybe the symbol of the all seeing eye is supposed to represent God's eye.)

But I think most people who responded to my post missed my point. I said that we are God's eyes, because God lives and has his being in us.

Hence we are God's eyes. God sees us through the eyes of others and God sees others through our very own eyes.

God is in us and God lives and has his being in and through US.

I really don't like to use the

Word ,destiny....because it can be so easily misunderstood to

mean something it was never meant to mean.....





God KNOWS ALL.



THAT SAYS IT ALL.

Sin_and_Sorrow......Adam and Eve Disobeyed what God

asked them to do.

God KNEW they would disobey...

and therefore sin separated them from God.

God and sin do not mix.


But God also provided THE WAY for man to come BACK into right

standing and fellowship WITH God once more.

And the WAY is thru His Son Jesus .


This was all a part of God's redemptive plan from the beginning....


since adam and eve sinned, man now has the knowledge of both

good and evil...and since man has been given FREE WILL , he

can CHOOSE .



And even though GOD DRAWS ALL mankind UNTO HIM , to help man

make the right choice , God will never MAKE the choice FOR

man..or force man to choose.

But God Already KNOWS how each of us WILL choose.

Exactly.
So, how is that sin?

He set them up to fail.
Thus, it'd be his own fault they did so.



..but we wouldn't have needed this way back;
..had he given us a fair chance to start with.

Again, makes no sense.



..which makes little to no sense.



They weren't 'given' free will.
They earned it, as you stated, through sin.
Thus, the knowledge itself.
Should be considered a 'sin'.
The ideal of having free-will is ultimately a 'sin'.



But he did from the start.
And nothing leads me to believe otherwise.
Setting us up to fail.
Knowing we would fail.
Is there a difference?
It wasn't free will that caused the 'sin'.
Everything was his 'plan'.
As you said.



..and thus our 'plan' is already known.
It is only found in the 'end'.

God did not set them up to fall..

God just KNEW what they would choose to do...they were given

a FREE WILL to CHOOSE to either obey OR disobey...



BUT....here's the thing:


God KNEW we would not be able to Obey..that is Why God

sent us a Saviour

AND....

WHEN JESUS COMES TO LIVE IN US NOW (which happens when we become

born again ,thru believing and accepting Jesus as our Saviour ),

HE THEN IS THE ONE WHO IS HELPING US TO OBEY NOW.


NOT US!!!!!

BUT HIM IN US !!!!!!!


WE NEVER WERE ABLE TO OBEY ON OUR OWN .....AND GOD KNEW THIS

FROM THE BEGINNING!!!

SEE NOW?




God still gives us a choice....... not just to obey or

disobey...but to Choose or NOT choose His SON JESUS!!!!


THEN AND ONLY THEN ARE WE ABLE to OBEY GOD NOW....BECAUSE

JESUS LIVING IN US AND WORKING THRU US, IS THE ONE WHO IS

HELPING US TO OBEY !!!!


See Now?

I disagree.

God (if there is such an individual entity) cannot know anything about what a person with free will will chose to do. That is why it is called free will.

It is free from everyone, including God.

Free will is the random factor in the universe.

If God knew everything everyone would do or choose to do then it would NOT be free will at all. It would be pointless to call it that. It would in fact, be a pre-designed or programmed plan or sequence of events.

It would be like a movie and we would be the characters in the movie with our roles and our lines. The plot of the movie would never change or deviate. The actors do not have free will in a movie.

No matter how many times you watch a movie, the ending is the same.

So what you are claiming is not possible and it is simply not true.

And to prove my point, if what you are saying is true, the idea or practice of Christians trying to spread the "good news" and bring people to salvation is a pointless and meaningless pursuit and a waste of time and energy.

A person would either be destined to do what they are going to do, and no amount of preaching or persuading can change anything.

This world is NOT a stage where we are playing parts for the amusement of some God who already knows the ending and already knows what we are going to do before we do it. There would be no point in that kind of reality. That is simply ridiculous.

..had we the knowledge that 'this' would have been 'wrong'.

You still believe they would have done what they did?

Also.

From your answer.

This states:

"God is the source of ALL our suffering."

Yes, of course, he would also be the source of our happiness too.

..and Adam and Eve didn't HAVE free will yet.

..or so goes my understanding of previous answers.

None of that makes any logical sense but if you feel better by believing it... more power to you.

But one plus one does not equal 5 either.

Jeannie.

Your last three posts, are they towards me?

God CREATED Man with a FREE WILL.


God is NOT the source of our suffering.....


"all good and perfect gifts come from The Lord...."


However....

God may allow things to happen...but is not the source of all

things that happen... ..but even so, God still is able to work

all things out according to His purpose...

So confused.

My brain exploded.

x.x

(Again)

No. I'm responding to Morningsong's statements.

So what are you claiming is God's purpose?

OK.

After some shoo fly pie, and a piece of coffee cake.

You are saying:

A. God created man with free-will.
B. He knew man would be tempted by two things, he himself created.
C. Knew that we would go against him.
D. 'Pretended' to be surprised when we did exactly what he already knew we'd do; justified by the words, 'What have you done?' In a shocked tone.
E. Predicted that we'd drift into a world created and thriving on sin.
F. Conjured up a son, knowing we'd kill him.
G. Committed acts of genocide.
H. Despite all 'sin', he did not create 'sin'.
I. Despite our actions, cause-effect, result of 'his' actions; he is free of ALL blame.
J. God has a plan, but that plan varies due to our free-will.
K. Despite variables which are constant; he is still all-knowing, all-seeing.
L. We actually have a purpose on Earth.
M. We have no 'destiny' but we are 'destined' to die.
N. When God said, 'You are destined--' he didn't mean such literally.

..that right? o.o

"They weren't 'given' free will.
They earned it, as you stated, through sin.
Thus, the knowledge itself.
Should be considered a 'sin'.
The ideal of having free-will is ultimately a 'sin'. "

Adam and Eve had free will.

They exercised it to climb the tree of Knowledge.

Gods plan is a many folded path.

If they had not climbed the tree.

We would not be.

Adam and Eve would have lived to eternity in a small garden.

Yet because they did choose.

We each have a path.

Free will is only a 'sin' if you don't use it.

Wait, hold up.
When did they climb the tree? o.o



Well according to the logic newly presented to me.
It'd have to be.
However, if there are two many possibilities.
It is impossible, yes, I'm using the word impossible for him to see them all.

Why?

Let's say there are 5 Million People on Earth.
Each person has 20 Different Paths on their own.
That's like 100,000,000 different possible outcomes to keep track of.

Neither of these numbers are in anywhere accurate.

So, regardless, toss 'all-seeing' right out the window.
Far too many variables for any given God despite having a massive army of 'angels' at his disposal.



Yes we would be.
Difference is, we'd all live in a Garden and there'd be no such thing as an atheist. "Go forth and multiply" were his commands, were they not?



And there'd be 700 trillion of us immortals there with them.
That number is probably ridiculously low.



If free-will does exist, then you have no 'choice' BUT to use it.

My problem is.

I am being told of two things.
These two things cannot co-exist in unison.
One is, the other isn't.
Or if the other is, then the first isn't.

It has to be one or the other.

Wait, hold up.
When did they climb the tree? o.o

---------------------------------
They but climbed upon the trunk.
Each suceeding generation went higher.
----------------------------------
However, if there are two many possibilities.
It is impossible, yes, I'm using the word impossible for him to see them all.

Why?

Let's say there are 5 Million People on Earth.
Each person has 20 Different Paths on their own.
That's like 100,000,000 different possible outcomes to keep track of.
-------------------------------------
7 billion on the Earth in this day. God stands with each one. He is most capable of awarenss of the paths for each.
-----------------------------------------------------
Difference is, we'd all live in a Garden and there'd be no such thing as an atheist. "Go forth and multiply" were his commands, were they not?
----------------------------------
Garden could never hold 7 billion. It but spans the space between the Tigress and Eupheraties rivers. If Adam and Eve and not 'ate' of the Tree of Knowledge they would have been given eternal life... but no Children.

Or perhaps God is simply unknowable in the pure Essence.

..where, pray tell.. do you get this information? o.O

So, God, when he said to Adam and Eve prior to the tree incident:

"Go forth, be fruitful, and multiply."
He was being an a$$? He didn't actually mean it?

Also.

Adam and Eve didn't have immortality before eating of that tree.

You know how I know? For the bible tells me so.

After he had banished Adam and Eve, he put something to guard to the entrance back into the Garden and said,

"Banish them so that you may not eat from the Tree of Eternal Life and live forever as us."

While I am still completely baffled as to whom this 'us' is that God referred; the fact he wished them not to eat of the tree of immortal life TO GAIN IMMORTALITY proves that regards if Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Good and Evil; ADAM AND EVE WERE GOING TO DIE.

The Bible, itself, says such.

Again, however, I do not ever recall the Bible making mention of them climbing trees..

..but that I could be mistaken on.