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| Topic: Are Atheists Open for a Chat? - part 2 | |
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I am not sure how God could be perceived as spoiled.
spoilt - having the character or disposition harmed by pampering or oversolicitous attention; "a spoiled child which one of us can 'pamper' God ? do children spoil their parents? |
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Cowboy wrote: One would have believe first before they could be "scared" into ummm, believing. Because if it was a "scare" tactic, it would obviously not work. You for instance, you believe they are fables, so it holds no grounds that one is condemned for not believing. So again, this would not work as a "scare tactic". So again, no one could truly be "scared" into believing and or believe out of being scared and or worried. It works because there are indeed people who are stupid enough to fall for that kind of a scare tactic. Cowboy wrote: And God "condemns" no one for not believing. It would be you condemning yourself as you already have the knowledge of the reaction to the action of disbelief. So you are choosing to condemn yourself in an essence. *not making a judgment, just using you as an example to explain, hope that is alright* And here you go again, trying to convince me of the "scare tactic" once again. You say, "It would be you condemning yourself as you already have the knowledge of the reaction to the action of disbelief. So you are choosing to condemn yourself in an essence." See, you're suggesting that if someone refuses to believe in this scare tactic they are indeed condemning themselves. Why? Well, according to you it's because they already have the "knowledge" of the reaction to the action of disbelief. That's brainwashing scare tactic right there. You're trying to convince someone that they already have "knowledge" that if they disbelieve in your religion they will be condemned, therefore if they choose to disbelieve they will indeed be condemned and it will be their very own choice. It's an extremely ruthless and devious brainwashing scare tactic that you yourself perpetuation, defend, and continue to propagate relentlessly with absolutely no respect for anyone who refuses to be coerced by it. That's just down right ignorant, IMHO. As a matter of fact, any religion that has to stoop to such pathetically underhanded tactics as this is clearly in pretty sad shape. You, yourself, had held out a notion that to believe in this God for any other reason short of "Loving" this God with all your heart, mind, and soul, would be futile anyway. Well, based on that idealism I cannot "Love" the God described in the Bible. As far as I can see he's an egotistical spoiled brat, he's a male chauvinistic pig, he's a sadist who is apparently appeased by blood sacrifices, even by the blood sacrifice of his very own begotten son! How could I "love" such a demon? If he were a human he'd be recognized to have some serious character flaws. So now that this approach has failed, you move onto "Plan #2" of the brainwashing tactics. If a person can't be convinced that this God is worthy of love on his own merit, then move on to trying to scare them into thinking that if they reject this religion they will be condemned and it won't even be this dastardly God's fault! Please give me a break. The religion is truly pathetic. If it can't convince people that its God is worthy of love it stoops to trying to coerce the people into joining the cult out of fear that they will be condemned if they refuse to join. Either the God is worthy of love or he isn't. If he's truly worthy of love then no scare tactic or threats of condemnation should be required. The mere fact that this religion stoops to using such coercion tactics should be proof to anyone that this religion is indeed just a man-made propaganda machine. This would be like this God saying to people, "If I can't convince you to love me then how about if I threaten you with condemnation anyway? Will that work?" My answer to your "God" is, "No that won't work, that will just prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that you were never worthy of my love in the first place" That's my response to these obvious mythological fables. They can't be true because they desecrate the very notion of divinity via their unholy coercion tactics. Only brainwashing to you my friend. There is no such thing as "brain washing" when it comes to beliefs. For someone would have to initially believe in the belief to even be close to accepting it as true and be effected by what the belief may be. It is a personal choice to allow the beliefs to effect you or not. The beliefs themselves can not brain wash anyone. So nice try again my friend, you're ABSOLUTELY good at this :). You'll convince someone of your delusions one day, keep up the good work and it will pay off for you. :) |
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Cowboy wrote: And remember, only one can be right. No matter which one it is, there is only one absolute true belief out there. Well Cowboy I hope you find it. Well, actually if no one is being condemned for not believing in the right one, then clearly there's not somber grave need to get it right anyway. The only reason it would be important to get it right would be if something horrible was going to happen to you if you got it wrong. The whole "urgency to believe" is an Abrahamic concept to begin with. And the very concept that causes that somber urgency is the idea that if you fail to believe you will risk "condemnation". Other spiritual philosophies aren't demanding in this way. Eastern Mysticism at its core does not care what you believe. You beliefs are totally unimportant, you could be an atheist. The truths of Eastern Mysticism still hold true for you just as gravity does. The philosophy of the "Law of Attraction", is the same way. No need to believe in it. It's going to hold true in any case. It's just another perspective of "karma". And karma is like gravity, it acts on you whether you believe in it or not. Also, my "version" of Wicca is totally compatible with the truths of karma or the law of attraction. All that Wicca does is help you to consciously control your very own karma. That's all it does. If Buddhism is the "philosophy" of Karma, then Wicca is a "tool" that helps you to best maintain your karma. So these spiritual philosophies and rituals can go hand-in-hand quite harmoniously and they can BOTH be simultaneously TRUE. Especially if the practitioner of Wicca, recognizes the psychic nature of spirit. People who think that only one religion or philosophy can be true are only limiting themselves. Of course if they believe in a jealous God who will condemn everyone who refuses to cower down to his wishes, then it's no wonder they think that only one religion can be true, because they view religion in terms of a jealous egotistical Godhead. People who think that only one religion or philosophy can be true are only limiting themselves. Of course if they believe in a jealous God who will condemn everyone who refuses to cower down to his wishes, then it's no wonder they think that only one religion can be true, because they view religion in terms of a jealous egotistical Godhead. If one believes water will freeze at 32 degrees F at sea level and another believes that water will freeze at 40 degrees F at sea level, one of them is bound to be wrong. If one believes the world is round and another believes the world is square, one is bound to be wrong. If people believe the world/life on the world was created by some accidental bing bang theory but another believes the world was created with purpose by a higher being, one of them is bound to be wrong. Multiple beliefs in religions and or philosophies can not work my friend. They don't mesh up. It is your choice to choose the right one, I hope you make a good choice whichever belief it is in the long run :). |
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I am not sure how God could be perceived as spoiled. spoilt - having the character or disposition harmed by pampering or oversolicitous attention; "a spoiled child which one of us can 'pamper' God ? do children spoil their parents? You may have a valid point there. Maybe 'spoiled' is the wrong term. Maybe "selfish" and "immature" would be better descriptions. Selfish because he demands that only his will be done. And immature because he does nasty thing to people who refuse to fulfill his selfish demands. Like casting them into everlasting punishment. ~~~~~ I don't know how you feel about things, but if I were a creator of beings and I was only interested in the ones that are in total agreement with my desires I certainly wouldn't be mean to the others. Maybe just let them die in peace. Why make them suffer in everlasting punishment? I certainly wouldn't get anything out of that. On the contrary I'd feel pretty darn bad about myself if I did that to people. Of course, this whole thing is hypothetical anyway. I'm not so sure that I would even bother creating life in the first place. At least not to satisfy my own selfish desires. If I was the only entity that existed and I had the power to create life I might try that to see if I could create a friend. But what would happen if I somehow created a monster instead? Well, to begin with that very scenario implies that I have no clue what I'm creating before I create it. That brings into question my very method of "creation". Am I actually creating these beings? Or am I just doing something that allows random beings to pop into existence and even I have no control over what I've actually "created"? ~~~~~~ This seems to be a problem with the concept of a supposedly all-powerful, omniscient God. How can he be all-powerful and omniscient and accidentally create a demonic angel? Does he know what he's doing or not? Sounds to me like his very act of creation is gamble. But that flies in the face of a God who supposedly has completely control over everything. Why bother creating people with "FREE WILL" if what you actually want are people who will only do "YOUR WILL"? Why not just create robots that will only do your will and be done with it? Problem solved. |
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I am not sure how God could be perceived as spoiled. spoilt - having the character or disposition harmed by pampering or oversolicitous attention; "a spoiled child which one of us can 'pamper' God ? do children spoil their parents? You may have a valid point there. Maybe 'spoiled' is the wrong term. Maybe "selfish" and "immature" would be better descriptions. Selfish because he demands that only his will be done. And immature because he does nasty thing to people who refuse to fulfill his selfish demands. Like casting them into everlasting punishment. ~~~~~ I don't know how you feel about things, but if I were a creator of beings and I was only interested in the ones that are in total agreement with my desires I certainly wouldn't be mean to the others. Maybe just let them die in peace. Why make them suffer in everlasting punishment? I certainly wouldn't get anything out of that. On the contrary I'd feel pretty darn bad about myself if I did that to people. Of course, this whole thing is hypothetical anyway. I'm not so sure that I would even bother creating life in the first place. At least not to satisfy my own selfish desires. If I was the only entity that existed and I had the power to create life I might try that to see if I could create a friend. But what would happen if I somehow created a monster instead? Well, to begin with that very scenario implies that I have no clue what I'm creating before I create it. That brings into question my very method of "creation". Am I actually creating these beings? Or am I just doing something that allows random beings to pop into existence and even I have no control over what I've actually "created"? ~~~~~~ This seems to be a problem with the concept of a supposedly all-powerful, omniscient God. How can he be all-powerful and omniscient and accidentally create a demonic angel? Does he know what he's doing or not? Sounds to me like his very act of creation is gamble. But that flies in the face of a God who supposedly has completely control over everything. Why bother creating people with "FREE WILL" if what you actually want are people who will only do "YOUR WILL"? Why not just create robots that will only do your will and be done with it? Problem solved. You may have a valid point there. Maybe 'spoiled' is the wrong term. Maybe "selfish" and "immature" would be better descriptions. Selfish because he demands that only his will be done. And immature because he does nasty thing to people who refuse to fulfill his selfish demands. Like casting them into everlasting punishment. Not selfish or immature either. If one does not follow as the government says in it's laws, does that one not get a punishment or some sort? If a child does not follow as their parent instructs, does that child not get a punishment of some sort? Wow, guess EVERYONE is selfish and immature :o |
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i dont think its as simple as just wanting someone to do his will, I think its wanting someone to CHOOSE his will.
there is a difference I think Its like the difference between just wanting someone to be with me and wanting someone to be with me because it was their CHOICE to do so... |
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I am not sure how God could be perceived as spoiled. spoilt - having the character or disposition harmed by pampering or oversolicitous attention; "a spoiled child which one of us can 'pamper' God ? do children spoil their parents? You may have a valid point there. Maybe 'spoiled' is the wrong term. Maybe "selfish" and "immature" would be better descriptions. Selfish because he demands that only his will be done. And immature because he does nasty thing to people who refuse to fulfill his selfish demands. Like casting them into everlasting punishment. ~~~~~ I don't know how you feel about things, but if I were a creator of beings and I was only interested in the ones that are in total agreement with my desires I certainly wouldn't be mean to the others. Maybe just let them die in peace. Why make them suffer in everlasting punishment? I certainly wouldn't get anything out of that. On the contrary I'd feel pretty darn bad about myself if I did that to people. Of course, this whole thing is hypothetical anyway. I'm not so sure that I would even bother creating life in the first place. At least not to satisfy my own selfish desires. If I was the only entity that existed and I had the power to create life I might try that to see if I could create a friend. But what would happen if I somehow created a monster instead? Well, to begin with that very scenario implies that I have no clue what I'm creating before I create it. That brings into question my very method of "creation". Am I actually creating these beings? Or am I just doing something that allows random beings to pop into existence and even I have no control over what I've actually "created"? ~~~~~~ This seems to be a problem with the concept of a supposedly all-powerful, omniscient God. How can he be all-powerful and omniscient and accidentally create a demonic angel? Does he know what he's doing or not? Sounds to me like his very act of creation is gamble. But that flies in the face of a God who supposedly has completely control over everything. Why bother creating people with "FREE WILL" if what you actually want are people who will only do "YOUR WILL"? Why not just create robots that will only do your will and be done with it? Problem solved. This seems to be a problem with the concept of a supposedly all-powerful, omniscient God. How can he be all-powerful and omniscient and accidentally create a demonic angel? Does he know what he's doing or not? Sounds to me like his very act of creation is gamble. But that flies in the face of a God who supposedly has completely control over everything. Why bother creating people with "FREE WILL" if what you actually want are people who will only do "YOUR WILL"? Why not just create robots that will only do your will and be done with it? Problem solved. God didn't create a demonic angel. Don't know exactly what Satan would look like, but he wouldn't be the "Satanic" picture we have of him. The red demon with a pitchfork. Lucifer was the most beautiful, most powerful, strongest Angel. Nothing demonic about that creation. This creation grew an ego, free will. There's nothing God could have done in that exact sense to stop Satan from doing what he had done besides destroying him, which will be done in good time. If God would have done anything else besides kick him out of heaven, that would have been taking away his free will. Which then if God took away his free will, what good is he? He would be nothing more then a puppet. It's not God's fault that someone/something goes "evil". For again it is their own free will choice to do so. Because without free will we would be nothing more then again puppets, robots, or something as such. There would be no real purpose to this life. If we didn't have free will we would have been created directly in Heaven to automatically do God's will mindlessly. That would be pointless. All God's instructions to us involves display/sharing of love with others. They aren't instructions/laws to only give him attention and or love and do his will. They are their to have us respect other's wishes and SHARE this world. |
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Cowboy wrote: Only brainwashing to you my friend. There is no such thing as "brain washing" when it comes to beliefs. For someone would have to initially believe in the belief to even be close to accepting it as true and be effected by what the belief may be. It is a personal choice to allow the beliefs to effect you or not. The beliefs themselves can not brain wash anyone. So nice try again my friend, you're ABSOLUTELY good at this :). You'll convince someone of your delusions one day, keep up the good work and it will pay off for you. :) So then according to you there's no such thing as "brainwashing" and we may as well toss that word out of our vocabulary altogether. Makes me wonder why anyone ever thought there would be a need for such a word in the first. If one believes water will freeze at 32 degrees F at sea level and another believes that water will freeze at 40 degrees F at sea level, one of them is bound to be wrong. If one believes the world is round and another believes the world is square, one is bound to be wrong. If people believe the world/life on the world was created by some accidental bing bang theory but another believes the world was created with purpose by a higher being, one of them is bound to be wrong. Multiple beliefs in religions and or philosophies can not work my friend. They don't mesh up. It is your choice to choose the right one, I hope you make a good choice whichever belief it is in the long run :). You believe in a hateful jealous selfish and demonic God who is exceedingly cruel and mean to anyone who doesn't even believe in him. I believe that if a God exists it's probably actually divine. One of us might be right. I hope it's me.  If you're right, then no one is safe whether they believe in your demon or not. On the other hand we could possibly both be wrong and maybe the atheists are right.  |
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Cowboy wrote: God didn't create a demonic angel. Don't know exactly what Satan would look like, but he wouldn't be the "Satanic" picture we have of him. The red demon with a pitchfork. Lucifer was the most beautiful, most powerful, strongest Angel. Nothing demonic about that creation. This creation grew an ego, free will. There's nothing God could have done in that exact sense to stop Satan from doing what he had done besides destroying him, which will be done in good time. If God would have done anything else besides kick him out of heaven, that would have been taking away his free will. Which then if God took away his free will, what good is he? He would be nothing more then a puppet. It's not God's fault that someone/something goes "evil". For again it is their own free will choice to do so. Because without free will we would be nothing more then again puppets, robots, or something as such. There would be no real purpose to this life. If we didn't have free will we would have been created directly in Heaven to automatically do God's will mindlessly. That would be pointless. All God's instructions to us involves display/sharing of love with others. They aren't instructions/laws to only give him attention and or love and do his will. They are their to have us respect other's wishes and SHARE this world. But there will be NO FREE WILL in heaven Cowboy. Only the biblical God's will is done in heaven. So no one else's will can be "FREE" in heaven. That's the proclamation of this religion. Only God's will be done! You keep telling everyone what the must do in order to pacify this God. And clearly they have no "free will" to do anything other than this if they wish to be accepted by this God. So the very concept of free will in this religion is pointless. Besides, look at your convoluted arguments: You say: Lucifer was the most beautiful, most powerful, strongest Angel. Nothing demonic about that creation. This creation grew an ego, free will. {snip} It's not God's fault that someone/something goes "evil". So according to you then Free Will itself is "evil"? But then you are asking me to exercise my Free Will to chose to believe in the Hebrew scriptures. But then I would be doing something EVIL. I'm making a FREE WILL CHOICE to believe in a particular religion. Can you see the oxymoron in that?  You're trying to claim that FREE WILL is "evil" yet you're demanding that God wants everyone to make a FREE WILL choice to worship him? That's absurd. It's truly unbelievable to me how anyone can support this stuff and keep a straight face. Of course, for all I know you're cracking up with ever post you make. So you're saying that to exercise Free Will is "evil". But only if we use Free Will it to REJECT your religion. If we use Free Will to EMBRACE your religion than all of a sudden Free Will is a divine thing? In fact, you even demand that the only way that people can embrace this religion is by "Free Will Choice". Yet you've just proclaimed that to exercise Free Will is an "evil" act. So the only way anyone can get to your God is by committing an "evil" act according to your scenario here. |
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All God's instructions to us involves display/sharing of love with others. If you're referring to the Biblical God this isn't true. The Biblical God instructed people how to care for slaved, and even how much they should pay for them. A male slave is worth twice as many sheckles as a female slave. Funny how this God actually condones an economy of buying and selling humans for MONEY! ~~~~ I'm sorry Cowboy but the Biblical fables of God simply don't support your claims. They don't only contain what YOU would LIKE for them to contain. You really should start up your own religion if you'd like to have something that truly based on love and sharing. That's fairly easy to do today, people are open to following righteous philosophies. You could even sell it as a secular philosophy and get by without even having to convince people of invisible unprovable gods.
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the discussion of free will is a complex one
by one definition : voluntary choice or decision <I do this of my own free will> we can argue indefinitely over what constitutes a 'voluntary' decision in most legal precedent , it would have something to do with the level of coercion or threat by another defintion 2: freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention we can argue indeifinitely over what constitutes 'divine' intervention' and 'prior cause' FOR ME anyhow, the idea of free will is about choice, if there is a choice, there is a FREE will to decide If there are no choices, save one, it can not be said to be of ones own free will,, ,like being born,,,,its not something we do with free will, its something that happens to us without our having any input,,, everything else in life, every action, is one of free will(as far as I am believing anyhow) |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sat 04/23/11 03:17 PM
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Being born is a choice.
Yep, sorry, it is. Its the dying that you have no choice in. Oh and paying back a student loan. The government will follow you into Hell to collect that. |
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Being born is a choice. Yep, sorry, it is. Its the dying that you have no choice in. Oh and paying back a student loan. The government will follow you into Hell to collect that. I see it differently. I can choose to take my own life tomorrow, it would require my OWN involvement. I dont believe I was involved in my own conception. |
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Cowboy wrote: God didn't create a demonic angel. Don't know exactly what Satan would look like, but he wouldn't be the "Satanic" picture we have of him. The red demon with a pitchfork. Lucifer was the most beautiful, most powerful, strongest Angel. Nothing demonic about that creation. This creation grew an ego, free will. There's nothing God could have done in that exact sense to stop Satan from doing what he had done besides destroying him, which will be done in good time. If God would have done anything else besides kick him out of heaven, that would have been taking away his free will. Which then if God took away his free will, what good is he? He would be nothing more then a puppet. It's not God's fault that someone/something goes "evil". For again it is their own free will choice to do so. Because without free will we would be nothing more then again puppets, robots, or something as such. There would be no real purpose to this life. If we didn't have free will we would have been created directly in Heaven to automatically do God's will mindlessly. That would be pointless. All God's instructions to us involves display/sharing of love with others. They aren't instructions/laws to only give him attention and or love and do his will. They are their to have us respect other's wishes and SHARE this world. But there will be NO FREE WILL in heaven Cowboy. Only the biblical God's will is done in heaven. So no one else's will can be "FREE" in heaven. That's the proclamation of this religion. Only God's will be done! You keep telling everyone what the must do in order to pacify this God. And clearly they have no "free will" to do anything other than this if they wish to be accepted by this God. So the very concept of free will in this religion is pointless. Besides, look at your convoluted arguments: You say: Lucifer was the most beautiful, most powerful, strongest Angel. Nothing demonic about that creation. This creation grew an ego, free will. {snip} It's not God's fault that someone/something goes "evil". So according to you then Free Will itself is "evil"? But then you are asking me to exercise my Free Will to chose to believe in the Hebrew scriptures. But then I would be doing something EVIL. I'm making a FREE WILL CHOICE to believe in a particular religion. Can you see the oxymoron in that? You're trying to claim that FREE WILL is "evil" yet you're demanding that God wants everyone to make a FREE WILL choice to worship him? That's absurd. It's truly unbelievable to me how anyone can support this stuff and keep a straight face. Of course, for all I know you're cracking up with ever post you make. So you're saying that to exercise Free Will is "evil". But only if we use Free Will it to REJECT your religion. If we use Free Will to EMBRACE your religion than all of a sudden Free Will is a divine thing? In fact, you even demand that the only way that people can embrace this religion is by "Free Will Choice". Yet you've just proclaimed that to exercise Free Will is an "evil" act. So the only way anyone can get to your God is by committing an "evil" act according to your scenario here. So according to you then Free Will itself is "evil"? Did I say it was? No I did not, didn't even insinuate it, please don't put words in people's mouths. Free will itself is neither evil or divine. All free will is, is the ability to choose. Only the biblical God's will is done in heaven. So no one else's will can be "FREE" in heaven. That's the proclamation of this religion. Only God's will be done! Yes there is free will in heaven. ALL FREE WILL IS, IS THE ABILITY TO DO AS YOU ARE TOLD OR NOT DO AS YOU'RE TOLD. Just because you have the ability to disobey, doesn't mean you should. And yes even in heaven we will have free will. We will have free will in heaven, because when we accept Jesus as lord and savior we give our lives over to him. So with that, when Jesus tells us to do or not do something, we are doing our will for we have made our will the will of Jesus our lord and God our father. But then you are asking me to exercise my Free Will to chose to believe in the Hebrew scriptures. But then I would be doing something EVIL. I'm making a FREE WILL CHOICE to believe in a particular religion. Do you listen at all? Give me ONE instance of me stating that free will is evil. And about the rest of your post, free will is NEVER evil or divine. It's not something substantial. It does not have it's own choice, it's own decision. Free will can be used in an evil way if the person wishes for it to be done, it can be used in a divine way if the person wishes for it to be done. Free will in itself is neither evil or divine. You make me laugh man, you truly do. You take out minor little things and blow them way out of proportion and twist them around lol. Keep trying, maybe one day you'll succeed :). |
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All God's instructions to us involves display/sharing of love with others. If you're referring to the Biblical God this isn't true. The Biblical God instructed people how to care for slaved, and even how much they should pay for them. A male slave is worth twice as many sheckles as a female slave. Funny how this God actually condones an economy of buying and selling humans for MONEY! ~~~~ I'm sorry Cowboy but the Biblical fables of God simply don't support your claims. They don't only contain what YOU would LIKE for them to contain. You really should start up your own religion if you'd like to have something that truly based on love and sharing. That's fairly easy to do today, people are open to following righteous philosophies. You could even sell it as a secular philosophy and get by without even having to convince people of invisible unprovable gods. Now you're just showing your ignorance. This slavery you speak of that God condoned to, wasn't anywhere near the slavery we have faced in the past few hundred years or so. This slavery was more or less an occupation. They had strict rules to follow in having their slaves. They weren't treated like crap, they weren't treated as lesser human beings, they weren't treated like objects. So again, please try again. |
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Jeanniebean wrote: I don't believe in a God that condemns or passes judgement on anyone. The laws of the universe take care of all of that automatically. People are thinking centers and they create their own heaven and hell. They imagine and create gods or they worship beings that appear to be gods. It is a universe of thinking centers and thought creates the dream we live in. So don't worry, be happy.  Jeanniebean wrote: I don't believe in a God that condemns or passes judgement on anyone. OMG!  Jeannie! You are condemning yourself to eternal damnation, suffering, and everlasting punishment because you don't believe in the God that does these things! You better hurry up and change your ways girl! According to the Christians, God is a DEMON!  And he WILL condemn you if you refuse to believe in him!  And now that you KNOW THIS, it follows that you will be condemning yourself because you already KNOW the results of disbelief as Cowboy had pointed out. So you are without EXCUSE! You've been TOLD! Now you KNOW! So if you refuse to believe now, you have no one to blame but YOURSELF! And the demonic hateful God of the Christians is off the HOOK!  It was entirely YOUR CHOICE! You condemned yourself. And the Christian God had nothing to do with it!  Like Pontius Pilate, God washes his hands of your demise!   Oh my gosh you are good.. You almost have me scared to follow God.. 
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Jeanniebean wrote: I don't believe in a God that condemns or passes judgement on anyone. The laws of the universe take care of all of that automatically. People are thinking centers and they create their own heaven and hell. They imagine and create gods or they worship beings that appear to be gods. It is a universe of thinking centers and thought creates the dream we live in. So don't worry, be happy. Jeanniebean wrote: I don't believe in a God that condemns or passes judgement on anyone. OMG! Jeannie! You are condemning yourself to eternal damnation, suffering, and everlasting punishment because you don't believe in the God that does these things! You better hurry up and change your ways girl! According to the Christians, God is a DEMON! And he WILL condemn you if you refuse to believe in him! And now that you KNOW THIS, it follows that you will be condemning yourself because you already KNOW the results of disbelief as Cowboy had pointed out. So you are without EXCUSE! You've been TOLD! Now you KNOW! So if you refuse to believe now, you have no one to blame but YOURSELF! And the demonic hateful God of the Christians is off the HOOK! It was entirely YOUR CHOICE! You condemned yourself. And the Christian God had nothing to do with it! Like Pontius Pilate, God washes his hands of your demise! Oh my gosh you are good.. You almost have me scared to follow God.. Being scared into believing in God isn't what he wishes. If one is being "scared" into believing, one isn't doing it willfully. They are doing it under deres. God wants your love, not your desire to save yourself from what you would be scared of. |
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Cowboy wrote: Do you listen at all? Give me ONE instance of me stating that free will is evil. You just equated ego and free will a moment ago when you said: This creation grew an ego, free will. And you were implying that this was "evil". ~~~~~ To be perfectly honest with you Cowboy, your religion makes me puke. The only 'ego' in your religion is the God of your religion. He's the one who has the big ego. Demanding that everyone love and worship him and do his will lest he be exceedingly mean and hurtful to them. The God in this religion is nothing but a totally egotistical self-centered bully who is mean to anyone who doesn't cower down to his personal prejudices and bigotries. Be thankful that we can see that these fables are nothing more than the creation of insensitive male-chauvinistic human men, and move away from it to better spiritual pictures philosophies. What keeps you clinging to this hateful religion? FEAR that if you reject it this God he will cast you into everlasting punishment? LUST for a gift of eternal life in paradise that you have been convinced cannot be had if you reject this religion? ~~~~~ For me it's exceedingly simple Cowboy. All I need to do is ask myself a few very simple question: "Am I a decent honest loving person who means well?" Yes, I know this to be a fact. "Do these ancient Hebrew stories sound reasonable to me?" No, they do not. "Would any genuinely divine being want me to LIE about that in order to appease him?" No, no genuinely divine being could ever want such a heinous thing. Therefore the religion has to be false. The only that I could ever support the Christian religion is to lie about it. It is a totally unwise, and utterly absurd religion, of a male-chauvinistic, Zeus-like Godhead, who is evidently appeased by blood sacrifices, even to the point of having his very own son butchered on a pole. Does that sound wise, intelligent, or even remotely sane to me? No it most certainly does not. If it sounds wise and intelligent to you then so be it. But it's an insult to both mankind and a notion of a divine creator, IMHO. It's just a religion that LOVES TO HATE everyone who refuses to believe in it is all. The Hebrews invented it (evolved it) as a way to justify their male-chauvinism, and to give them an excuse to murder anyone who disagrees with their religious views. They also used it as an excuse to murder another entire culture and steal their land. I see absolutely no value in this religion, and there's absolutely no way that I will ever give my support to it. It's an extremely hateful religion, IMHO. Why would I want to support such hatred and religious bigotry in the name of a God? I see no value in that. I'm never going to support religious bigotry that tries to coerce people into joining their cult by threatening them that if they refuse to join the Cult "god" will hate them. That's is the epitome of religious arrogance and ignorance. It's an underhanded and disgusting brainwashing technique. That's all it is. Worship our religion or God will cast you into HELL!
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sat 04/23/11 04:46 PM
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Being scared into believing in God isn't what he wishes. If one is being "scared" into believing, one isn't doing it willfully. They are doing it under deres. God wants your love, not your desire to save yourself from what you would be scared of. If this is true, Cowboy, then the threat of Hell and damnation should not be part of the bargain. One of the primary reasons I am not a Christian is because I view the choice that the Biblical God has given us to be extortion. Here is what I was told in the short form. If you agree to follow Jesus, and accept him as your personal savior, praise his name, love him, love his Father, etc. then you will be saved from death or eternal damnation and torment. If you do not do this, you will be left behind to be deal with Satan and Hell and death. Some Christian denominations even have the gall to claim that only their Church is the right church or that only they have the authority to baptize and they will claim that every other "Christian" church is false and you will not get into heaven if you belong to them. So its not only that Christianity in general claims to have the only way to God and the only salvation, there are individual denominations that make the same claim. They all secretly think they are the only right one. Many secretly think that they and only they will get into heaven. Give me a break you guys. No, I will not be threatened or scared into believing in your God or in joining your church, but still I hear the same thing from almost all Christians I meet. They all claim that their way is the right way and the only true salvation and the only way to God. What they then do is pretend to tolerate everyone else. They put on their fake smiles and pretend to tolerate, all the while believing deep in their heart that only they and only the members of their church will be saved. Everyone else will parish in flames. Please! You know why I don't believe in that God? Because a good loving God would never engage in extortion! ---- and if he would, then I don't want to go live with him in heaven under his tyranny. He may not be the true God, but only a deluded entity that is trying to fool everyone. |
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Jeanniebean wrote: I don't believe in a God that condemns or passes judgement on anyone. The laws of the universe take care of all of that automatically. People are thinking centers and they create their own heaven and hell. They imagine and create gods or they worship beings that appear to be gods. It is a universe of thinking centers and thought creates the dream we live in. So don't worry, be happy. Jeanniebean wrote: I don't believe in a God that condemns or passes judgement on anyone. OMG! Jeannie! You are condemning yourself to eternal damnation, suffering, and everlasting punishment because you don't believe in the God that does these things! You better hurry up and change your ways girl! According to the Christians, God is a DEMON! And he WILL condemn you if you refuse to believe in him! And now that you KNOW THIS, it follows that you will be condemning yourself because you already KNOW the results of disbelief as Cowboy had pointed out. So you are without EXCUSE! You've been TOLD! Now you KNOW! So if you refuse to believe now, you have no one to blame but YOURSELF! And the demonic hateful God of the Christians is off the HOOK! It was entirely YOUR CHOICE! You condemned yourself. And the Christian God had nothing to do with it! Like Pontius Pilate, God washes his hands of your demise! Oh my gosh you are good.. You almost have me scared to follow God.. Being scared into believing in God isn't what he wishes. If one is being "scared" into believing, one isn't doing it willfully. They are doing it under deres. God wants your love, not your desire to save yourself from what you would be scared of. dont be scared, unless you consider not putting your hand over a hot stove to be a decision you make out of FEAR , and therefore something not to subscribe to we are merely warned about real dangers and we have the choice to avoid them or not |
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