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| Topic: Are Atheists Open for a Chat? - part 2 | |
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[ Probability of life forming from inanimate matter? Very high when factored by time. Just the right time has no meaning when one measures time... Giving the know time that exists 'just the right time' would have occured 'in time'. Single celled creature would naturally become more comples... over time. Every one of the questions above can be answered 'in due time'. Yet God is greater than time... so I must agree... It is most plausible that there is an intelligent creator of the Universe... And yet, this allegedly omnipotent creator needs the obedience, worship and money of and from human beings or gets all mad and destroys things in a fit of pique when "He" doesn't get what he wants? Sounds to me a sock puppet for Believers who simply MUST have only the best Creator in their court. -Kerry O. In the top religions of the world god is perceived as a spoiled male of the human species. I wonder why that is? Rhetorically asking of course. The answer reminds me of a woman-to-woman birthday card I saw about 10 years ago. Front: It's your birthday. Do whatever you want today. Think only of yourself. Talk only about yourself. Inside: You know, act like a guy. I dunno, patriarchal religions just sit better with most people, I think. I'd guess that most people feel that a female deity would either have to be a soft touch that was way too lenient to be a kick-*** God or a total ***** that would have destroyed the world 50 times over. -Kerry O. Well considering that men have been the "root" of all teachings and creating officially since as far back as we have been writing things down and male dominated societies have also been along those same lines it would make sense that women being less and unable to "handle" herself without being controlled would have been the rule of thought. A woman can be as deadly in a role of power as a man I do believe but it will be a while before we will know that for sure. 
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sat 04/23/11 05:10 PM
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dont be scared, unless you consider not putting your hand over a hot stove to be a decision you make out of FEAR , and therefore something not to subscribe to we are merely warned about real dangers and we have the choice to avoid them or not That is bull. That would mean that you are admitting that your God is not all powerful at all, that he is at the mercy of Satan and that he can't save everyone and put Satan away. If God is all powerful and can save everyone from the evil Satan, then all he is doing is extortion and using Satan to scare people. Just like a parent who threatens her child with the boogie man. oooooh I'm so scared...! |
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I am not sure how God could be perceived as spoiled. spoilt - having the character or disposition harmed by pampering or oversolicitous attention; "a spoiled child which one of us can 'pamper' God ? do children spoil their parents? You may have a valid point there. Maybe 'spoiled' is the wrong term. Maybe "selfish" and "immature" would be better descriptions. Selfish because he demands that only his will be done. And immature because he does nasty thing to people who refuse to fulfill his selfish demands. Like casting them into everlasting punishment. ~~~~~ I don't know how you feel about things, but if I were a creator of beings and I was only interested in the ones that are in total agreement with my desires I certainly wouldn't be mean to the others. Maybe just let them die in peace. Why make them suffer in everlasting punishment? I certainly wouldn't get anything out of that. On the contrary I'd feel pretty darn bad about myself if I did that to people. Of course, this whole thing is hypothetical anyway. I'm not so sure that I would even bother creating life in the first place. At least not to satisfy my own selfish desires. If I was the only entity that existed and I had the power to create life I might try that to see if I could create a friend. But what would happen if I somehow created a monster instead? Well, to begin with that very scenario implies that I have no clue what I'm creating before I create it. That brings into question my very method of "creation". Am I actually creating these beings? Or am I just doing something that allows random beings to pop into existence and even I have no control over what I've actually "created"? ~~~~~~ This seems to be a problem with the concept of a supposedly all-powerful, omniscient God. How can he be all-powerful and omniscient and accidentally create a demonic angel? Does he know what he's doing or not? Sounds to me like his very act of creation is gamble. But that flies in the face of a God who supposedly has completely control over everything. Why bother creating people with "FREE WILL" if what you actually want are people who will only do "YOUR WILL"? Why not just create robots that will only do your will and be done with it? Problem solved. This seems to be a problem with the concept of a supposedly all-powerful, omniscient God. How can he be all-powerful and omniscient and accidentally create a demonic angel? Does he know what he's doing or not? Sounds to me like his very act of creation is gamble. But that flies in the face of a God who supposedly has completely control over everything. Why bother creating people with "FREE WILL" if what you actually want are people who will only do "YOUR WILL"? Why not just create robots that will only do your will and be done with it? Problem solved. God didn't create a demonic angel. Don't know exactly what Satan would look like, but he wouldn't be the "Satanic" picture we have of him. The red demon with a pitchfork. Lucifer was the most beautiful, most powerful, strongest Angel. Nothing demonic about that creation. This creation grew an ego, free will. There's nothing God could have done in that exact sense to stop Satan from doing what he had done besides destroying him, which will be done in good time. If God would have done anything else besides kick him out of heaven, that would have been taking away his free will. Which then if God took away his free will, what good is he? He would be nothing more then a puppet. It's not God's fault that someone/something goes "evil". For again it is their own free will choice to do so. Because without free will we would be nothing more then again puppets, robots, or something as such. There would be no real purpose to this life. If we didn't have free will we would have been created directly in Heaven to automatically do God's will mindlessly. That would be pointless. All God's instructions to us involves display/sharing of love with others. They aren't instructions/laws to only give him attention and or love and do his will. They are their to have us respect other's wishes and SHARE this world. Except there is no such thing as free will in the Christian religion. If there were truly free will in the religion then those who chose not to practice the religion would still be considered in good standing with god. Free will, ya know....lol If religion was designed to be for the good of all people as they claim then they would support all people no matter their religion, sexual orientation, marital status while living with someone, etc.... the doors of heaven would be open to all no matter if they are practicing the religion or not. Free will, you know...lol  |
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Except there is no such thing as free will in the Christian religion. If there were truly free will in the religion then those who chose not to practice the religion would still be considered in good standing with god. Free will, ya know....lol This is correct. Free will should not have strings attached. Preachers who try to scare people into worshiping their God and going to their church and giving them money HATE the subject of Free will. Free will is not a choice made under duress. The choice Christianity offers is a choice under duress. Love me or go to Hell. Worship me or go to hell and die. That is the only choice you have. Period. That is NOT free will. Then, after you get to this heaven slave camp, what are you allowed to do? You are allowed to praise God, worship God and serve God. There is no food, no sex, no fun, no free will. |
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Except there is no such thing as free will in the Christian religion. If there were truly free will in the religion then those who chose not to practice the religion would still be considered in good standing with god. Free will, ya know....lol This is correct. Free will should not have strings attached. Preachers who try to scare people into worshiping their God and going to their church and giving them money HATE the subject of Free will. Free will is not a choice made under duress. The choice Christianity offers is a choice under duress. Love me or go to Hell. Worship me or go to hell and die. That is the only choice you have. Period. That is NOT free will. Then, after you get to this heaven slave camp, what are you allowed to do? You are allowed to praise God, worship God and serve God. There is no food, no sex, no fun, no free will.  That is how religion lost me, threatening me about how I need to live how 2000 yr old men think I should live. psshht  Plus the misogyny of the bible stories turned me off big time. I am amazed any women follow that crap.
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dont be scared, unless you consider not putting your hand over a hot stove to be a decision you make out of FEAR , and therefore something not to subscribe to we are merely warned about real dangers and we have the choice to avoid them or not That is bull. That would mean that you are admitting that your God is not all powerful at all, that he is at the mercy of Satan and that he can't save everyone and put Satan away. If God is all powerful and can save everyone from the evil Satan, then all he is doing is extortion and using Satan to scare people. Just like a parent who threatens her child with the boogie man. oooooh I'm so scared...! Exactly, and this God supposedly "sacrificed" his own son to appease Satan. What other excuse would he have? Either this God himself is a sadist (i.e. he is appeased by blood sacrifices himself), or he's powerless against a fallen demonic angel to which he must make sacrificial in order to appease. No matter how it is viewed there is no view that makes sense. Either this God is himself a sadist who is appeased by blood sacrifices, or he has "no choice" in the matter which implies that he's cowering down to some other force in an attempt to appease it. The stories just don't make any sense, period. |
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I
dont be scared, unless you consider not putting your hand over a hot stove to be a decision you make out of FEAR , and therefore something not to subscribe to we are merely warned about real dangers and we have the choice to avoid them or not That is bull. That would mean that you are admitting that your God is not all powerful at all, that he is at the mercy of Satan and that he can't save everyone and put Satan away. If God is all powerful and can save everyone from the evil Satan, then all he is doing is extortion and using Satan to scare people. Just like a parent who threatens her child with the boogie man. oooooh I'm so scared...! because someone can do things doesnt mean they will or should God is all powerful, his choice in how to use his power is reasonable and just,,in my opinion I am not concerned with being saved from Evil Satan, Satan is not something I think about when considering living rightly... I dont know that God uses Satan to scare anyone. I do believe , however, that Satan was kicked out of his home for being rebellious and (for lack of a better word) disrespectful and confrontational and allowing his ego to come before his respect for God. I also believe that men have a similar fate for behaving in such manner. Im not frightened about 'satan', Im reminded what happened to SATAN as consequence of his choices. Choices that , if I make, may lead to my own similar end. |
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That is how religion lost me, threatening me about how I need to live how 2000 yr old men think I should live. psshht Plus the misogyny of the bible stories turned me off big time. I am amazed any women follow that crap. I totally agree. I've said in many times, in the 1960's when women were burning their bras they should have been burning the bible. |
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dont be scared, unless you consider not putting your hand over a hot stove to be a decision you make out of FEAR , and therefore something not to subscribe to we are merely warned about real dangers and we have the choice to avoid them or not That is bull. That would mean that you are admitting that your God is not all powerful at all, that he is at the mercy of Satan and that he can't save everyone and put Satan away. If God is all powerful and can save everyone from the evil Satan, then all he is doing is extortion and using Satan to scare people. Just like a parent who threatens her child with the boogie man. oooooh I'm so scared...! Exactly, and this God supposedly "sacrificed" his own son to appease Satan. What other excuse would he have? Either this God himself is a sadist (i.e. he is appeased by blood sacrifices himself), or he's powerless against a fallen demonic angel to which he must make sacrificial in order to appease. No matter how it is viewed there is no view that makes sense. Either this God is himself a sadist who is appeased by blood sacrifices, or he has "no choice" in the matter which implies that he's cowering down to some other force in an attempt to appease it. The stories just don't make any sense, period. where is it noted that Jesus sacrifice was for the appeasement of Satan? there is a third option as well, that god is no more sadist than karma which requires that people attract their own consequences and neither does he have 'no choice' any more than a parent who allows their children to grow up and suffer their own consequences because of their choice,,,, parents could intervene, but most choose not to(that is a choice) but the third option that he created us and gave us evidence and examples of the natural order of things and the consequences of straying from that order and allowed us to choose the path we will take |
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I also believe that men have a similar fate for behaving in such manner. Im not frightened about 'satan', Im reminded what happened to SATAN as consequence of his choices. Choices that , if I make, may lead to my own similar end. That's the fear tactic right there. You're afraid to make choices of your own in the fear that God may disapprove of them. Religion being the MAIN CHOICE that you don't dare make on your own! And that's the problem right there. The proponents of this religion support the idea that if anyone chooses a religion other than Christianity they are refusing to obey the WILL of God. That's the SCARE TACTIC. In fact, they charge atheists with same nonsense. A disbelief in God altogether is viewed as "rebellion" which is utter nonsense. It would seem to me that any intelligent person should be able to see how that would be utter nonsense. To not even believe in a God at all, could in no way be construed into a refusal to "Obey" that God. In fact, if that were TRUE, then all Christians are willfully choosing to disobey Zeus, and countless other "gods". SHAME ON THEM! They are rebellious people who refuse to worship and obey all those Gods! Because remember, DISBELIEF = BLATANT REFUSAL! According to the Christians anyway.  |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sat 04/23/11 05:56 PM
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I dont be scared, unless you consider not putting your hand over a hot stove to be a decision you make out of FEAR , and therefore something not to subscribe to we are merely warned about real dangers and we have the choice to avoid them or not That is bull. That would mean that you are admitting that your God is not all powerful at all, that he is at the mercy of Satan and that he can't save everyone and put Satan away. If God is all powerful and can save everyone from the evil Satan, then all he is doing is extortion and using Satan to scare people. Just like a parent who threatens her child with the boogie man. oooooh I'm so scared...! because someone can do things doesnt mean they will or should God is all powerful, his choice in how to use his power is reasonable and just,,in my opinion I am not concerned with being saved from Evil Satan, Satan is not something I think about when considering living rightly... I dont know that God uses Satan to scare anyone. I do believe , however, that Satan was kicked out of his home for being rebellious and (for lack of a better word) disrespectful and confrontational and allowing his ego to come before his respect for God. I also believe that men have a similar fate for behaving in such manner. Im not frightened about 'satan', Im reminded what happened to SATAN as consequence of his choices. Choices that , if I make, may lead to my own similar end. >>> "I am not concerned with being saved from Evil Satan, Satan is not something I think about when considering living rightly... " Glad to hear it. I don't think of Satan either when considering "living rightly." I don't think of the ten commandments, Jesus, or heaven or hell either. I can live "rightly" without any of that. |
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"I am not concerned with being saved from Evil Satan, Satan is not something I think about when considering living rightly... " Glad to hear it. I don't think of Satan either when considering "living rightly." I don't think of the ten commandments, Jesus, or heaven or hell either. I can live "rightly" without any of that. Truly. I can too, and I feel certain that no truly just divine being would condemn me for "living rightly" The only people that will condemn me are the Christians. For they are the only people I know who love to condemn people.  |
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I also believe that men have a similar fate for behaving in such manner. Im not frightened about 'satan', Im reminded what happened to SATAN as consequence of his choices. Choices that , if I make, may lead to my own similar end. That's the fear tactic right there. You're afraid to make choices of your own in the fear that God may disapprove of them. Religion being the MAIN CHOICE that you don't dare make on your own! And that's the problem right there. The proponents of this religion support the idea that if anyone chooses a religion other than Christianity they are refusing to obey the WILL of God. That's the SCARE TACTIC. In fact, they charge atheists with same nonsense. A disbelief in God altogether is viewed as "rebellion" which is utter nonsense. It would seem to me that any intelligent person should be able to see how that would be utter nonsense. To not even believe in a God at all, could in no way be construed into a refusal to "Obey" that God. In fact, if that were TRUE, then all Christians are willfully choosing to disobey Zeus, and countless other "gods". SHAME ON THEM! They are rebellious people who refuse to worship and obey all those Gods! Because remember, DISBELIEF = BLATANT REFUSAL! According to the Christians anyway. how terrible that God decides who he wants in HIS house and how fearful I am of not being one of those whatever you want to call it,, I wish for a destination with the Father and I choose the path that I believe leads me there,,, |
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I also believe that men have a similar fate for behaving in such manner. Im not frightened about 'satan', Im reminded what happened to SATAN as consequence of his choices. Choices that , if I make, may lead to my own similar end. That's the fear tactic right there. You're afraid to make choices of your own in the fear that God may disapprove of them. Religion being the MAIN CHOICE that you don't dare make on your own! And that's the problem right there. The proponents of this religion support the idea that if anyone chooses a religion other than Christianity they are refusing to obey the WILL of God. That's the SCARE TACTIC. In fact, they charge atheists with same nonsense. A disbelief in God altogether is viewed as "rebellion" which is utter nonsense. It would seem to me that any intelligent person should be able to see how that would be utter nonsense. To not even believe in a God at all, could in no way be construed into a refusal to "Obey" that God. In fact, if that were TRUE, then all Christians are willfully choosing to disobey Zeus, and countless other "gods". SHAME ON THEM! They are rebellious people who refuse to worship and obey all those Gods! Because remember, DISBELIEF = BLATANT REFUSAL! According to the Christians anyway. I am a proponent, and I say that the will of God is Christianity so there is no scare tactic there....religion are the man made titles for belief systems and the belief system of those who try to embrace Gods will , whether it be called christianity or spirituality or whatever label,, is the logical path to God |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Sat 04/23/11 06:21 PM
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I also believe that men have a similar fate for behaving in such manner. Im not frightened about 'satan', Im reminded what happened to SATAN as consequence of his choices. Choices that , if I make, may lead to my own similar end. That's the fear tactic right there. You're afraid to make choices of your own in the fear that God may disapprove of them. Religion being the MAIN CHOICE that you don't dare make on your own! And that's the problem right there. The proponents of this religion support the idea that if anyone chooses a religion other than Christianity they are refusing to obey the WILL of God. That's the SCARE TACTIC. In fact, they charge atheists with same nonsense. A disbelief in God altogether is viewed as "rebellion" which is utter nonsense. It would seem to me that any intelligent person should be able to see how that would be utter nonsense. To not even believe in a God at all, could in no way be construed into a refusal to "Obey" that God. In fact, if that were TRUE, then all Christians are willfully choosing to disobey Zeus, and countless other "gods". SHAME ON THEM! They are rebellious people who refuse to worship and obey all those Gods! Because remember, DISBELIEF = BLATANT REFUSAL! According to the Christians anyway. But I will in no way be upset if I do not make it to Zeus heaven, as I dont believe in Zeus this is what I dont understand about those who are so concerned with the path of religion but dont believe in god in the first place its as it should be, those that dont wish to embrace God will not have to live eternity with him,, seems like a win win situation |
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Jeanniebean wrote: I don't believe in a God that condemns or passes judgement on anyone. The laws of the universe take care of all of that automatically. People are thinking centers and they create their own heaven and hell. They imagine and create gods or they worship beings that appear to be gods. It is a universe of thinking centers and thought creates the dream we live in. So don't worry, be happy.  Jeanniebean wrote: I don't believe in a God that condemns or passes judgement on anyone. OMG!  Jeannie! You are condemning yourself to eternal damnation, suffering, and everlasting punishment because you don't believe in the God that does these things! You better hurry up and change your ways girl! According to the Christians, God is a DEMON!  And he WILL condemn you if you refuse to believe in him!  And now that you KNOW THIS, it follows that you will be condemning yourself because you already KNOW the results of disbelief as Cowboy had pointed out. So you are without EXCUSE! You've been TOLD! Now you KNOW! So if you refuse to believe now, you have no one to blame but YOURSELF! And the demonic hateful God of the Christians is off the HOOK!  It was entirely YOUR CHOICE! You condemned yourself. And the Christian God had nothing to do with it! Like Pontius Pilate, God washes his hands of your demise! Oh my gosh you are good.. You almost have me scared to follow God..  Being scared into believing in God isn't what he wishes. If one is being "scared" into believing, one isn't doing it willfully. They are doing it under deres. God wants your love, not your desire to save yourself from what you would be scared of. LOL I am not scared of god, i know I am loved.. But if i dissobeyed my Mum or dad, I would still have a fewr of being found out or having to tell them, not just because I would be in trouble but because i know that they would be dissapointed and I hate disapointing anyone.. It's cool Cowboy , I love God only because I choose to, I just dont try and explain it as i cant, its just my belief.. However It doesnt mean I think everyone else is wrong, I cannot be 100 percent sure of anything.. But saying that, I dont doubt God, as wierd as that sounds even to myself.. So I love God willingly, however, Iam not folowing God, as really it apears i am doomed to hell, or from eternal seperation to God.. Why, because from everything that I see here and read, I am a sinner who is beyond redemption. You see I have been divorced twice. Yep both my husbands played up , but that still doesnt cut it.. I am now in a relationship and am not married, I am getting married but I am still choosing to live outside Gods will. so that makes me unforgivable. |
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That is how religion lost me, threatening me about how I need to live how 2000 yr old men think I should live. psshht Plus the misogyny of the bible stories turned me off big time. I am amazed any women follow that crap. I totally agree. I've said in many times, in the 1960's when women were burning their bras they should have been burning the bible. If they would have been smart about their own liberation and equality they would have. I don't believe the quaran fairs any better either. |
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But I will in no way be upset if I do not make it to Zeus heaven, as I dont believe in Zeus this is what I dont understand about those who are so concerned with the path of religion but dont believe in god in the first place its as it should be, those that dont wish to embrace God will not have to live eternity with him,, seems like a win win situation I'm willing to bet that if you lived in a society where people were constantly telling you that if you don't support hatred in the name of Zeus toward everyone who doesn't believe in Zeus or obey his commands, you'd soon tire of hearing about Zeus even though you don't believe in him. |
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"I am a proponent, and I say that the will of God is Christianity.."
Which version? Perhaps in that reguard the 'will of God' for mankind is 'Christ-like behavior'. Which can be displayed by many that are not 'christians'. |
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Edited by
Abracadabra
on
Sat 04/23/11 06:42 PM
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Jeanniebean wrote: So I love God willingly, however, Iam not folowing God, as really it apears i am doomed to hell, or from eternal seperation to God.. Jeanniebean and I love God willingly too. We just don't agree with the ancient Hebrews or Cowboy that they hold the copyright on God.  Why, because from everything that I see here and read, I am a sinner who is beyond redemption. Who's copyright of God have you been reading? You see I have been divorced twice. Yep both my husbands played up , but that still doesnt cut it.. I am now in a relationship and am not married, I am getting married but I am still choosing to live outside Gods will. so that makes me unforgivable. Have you harmed anyone, or knowingly and purposefully hurt anyone? Have you condemned anyone to hell? Are you able to forgive. Even the hateful Hebrews have recognized that Jesus said the following: Luke.6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: Condemn not and ye shall not be condemned. Have you condemned anyone? I personally believe that Jesus was a Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva who was grossly misunderstood by the authors of the New Testament. I believe that he was actually preaching karma. As the above words imply. Jesus also supposedly said: John.12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. So clearly even Jesus says that it's not important to believe in him or his words. He didn't come to judge the world, but to save the world. And how did he save it? By telling people that if they don't judge others or condemn others, and if they forgive then they will not be judged or condemned, and they too will be forgiven. So there you go Josie. If you're not judging others, and you're not condemning others, and you're willing to forgive others. Then you're home free.  Don't worry about all the gory details from the Old Testament, even Jesus didn't agree with that crap. He taught a totally opposite philosophy. |
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