Shalom Red

Just wanted to say hi and glad to see you on here.

May the Blessings of Yahweh be up on you..Miles

Num 6:24-26

24 "Yahweh bless you and keep you;
25 Yahweh make His face shine upon you,
And be gracious to you;
26 Yahweh lift up His countenance upon you,
And give you peace."'
NKJV

On the other hand there are a great many Christians, like Cowboy, who claim that Josie practices adultery. In fact adultery is still part of the New Covenant specifically because Jesus preached about it. We had a whole discussion about this very topic right here in these threads. So Josie, you are relagated to the same fate as gays and lesbians, not to mention the poor transgendered whose conflict is physical as well as unseen.

Of course there is hope for you still. You see the LGBT REFUSED to give up their faith and NO DOUBT, like you, they feel no guilt or remorse for following a path that would allow them to continue to serve their god from a place of psychological and physical well-being. They formed their churches and later they found FULL acceptance in other established churches and even in other religions.

Josie, you don't need to form a new church, there are millions who don't believe you to be unforgivable. Also why would your god insist that you live a life of pain, and misery and psychological abuse in order to prove your worthiness to serve him?

Get real, and quit blaming yourself and if you want to believe in your god than make him the kind of god you believe is worthy to serve. The fact is Josie that you are no good to anyone if you believe you are no good to your god. That's just giving up, and a way to say poor me, I'm unforgiven. Stop it, it's not becomming.

in the common language


adultery: voluntary sexual intercourse between a married man and someone other than his wife or between a married woman and someone other than her husband


fornication: consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other

Thank you so much for the heart-felt thoughts you pass on, please know that my wishes for you are just as warm even though they may not be in the form of prayer. May you always have peace in your heart and your mind, no matter where the words that bring it come from.

Shalom to you too Miles

Marriage BETWEEN ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN - there'e SO MUCH MORE to that then just those few words. In fact Marriage cannot be 'put assunder' by anyone other than god. Even in the case when a man should be the one to put away his wife, he is yet married to her all his days and is responsible for her and their children. That means NEITHER THE MAN OR THE WOMAN can be married to someone else and that sex with anyone else is adultery.

Not saying that you believe that but if you don't could it be that you are picking and choosing what you want to believe from the book? Of course you certainly could be seeing it from a different frame of reference AND that frame of reference (personal experience) may just serve as a model for Josie.

If your version of god does not match with your behavior, than adopt another version of god who is more worthy of your service and faith.

Its not my God that has to be worthy of me, but me who has to be worthy of my God


but that is indeed, according to my faith

it is also, according to my faith, not adultery to remarry unless the divorce was not for immorality,,


"And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality,and marries another woman commits adultery

This is true. Why would anyone believe in a God that's an unrighteous idiot?

I made that realization a very long time ago. Any God that would be less forgiving them me would clearly also be LESS than me.

So why would I believe in a God that it LESS than me?

That makes no sense at all. If I'm going to believe in a God I'm at least going to imagine an entity that's actually BETTER than me.

And as soon as I've made that realization I had to cast Christianity aside as being unworthy of my "faith". Because to place my "faith" in that religion would be the same as me placing my "faith" in an idea of a God that's far beneath even me.

Why bother placing my "faith" in such an unworthy religion?

That makes no sense at all.

That works only if you already believe that your God is worthy of you.

Well that does make sense because you have chosen, for your particular frame of reference, to use an interpretation of the bible that has a modern spin on it.

As the older thread indicated, what you believe to be a valid frame of reference, is not necessarily what many other scholars would agree the anchient texts actually say.

But that's good because, once again, it shows us all that just like you, the LGBT and Josie are entitled to choose thier own intrepretation of doctrine & scripture and modernize it to become more comfortable with thier beliefs when modernity makes adhering to ancient values a miserable task indeed.

Truly!

Why would anyone place their faith in a God that they hadn't already judged to be worthy of them?

To do otherwise suggests that they feel that there is no room for faith, but rather then have no choice but to believe in the God they believe in.

Somewhere along the way someone convinced them that they have no choice to decide "who" or "what" God is, and that they must believe in a particular religion because it's the "Only Truth".

That's not faith.

That's just falling for a brainwashing scheme.

You have been convinced that they have "no choice". They've been taught that the Bible is the word of God whether they like it or not. And then told to straighten up and accept that or be damned!

To fall for that is not faith. To fall for that is nothing more than being naive.

This is why I say to people who ask me to place my faith in that religion to bug off. Because there is nothing in that religion that is worthy of my faith.

So it can never be a 'faith-based' belief for me, because I would never waste my faith believing in something that doesn't even remotely appeal to me or appear to be worthy of my faith.

If you God isn't worthy of your faith, then why are you even bothering to place your faith in that God?

It makes no sense to not believe that your God is "worthy" of your faith.

Your God necessarily and absolutely has to be "worthy" of you, otherwise you've placed your faith in an entity that isn't even worthy of you, much less being worthy of your faith.

I would say this goes along with the fact that not all parents are worthy of the respect of their off-spring. Of course if you're going to treat your off-spring (or creations)without genuine respect and total justice in all your dealings with them, then it would seem wise to create a "commandment" to honor your makers regardless of how worthy they are of that honor.

It's also illogical to follow such a rule but then again choice is not always a matter to be assigned to logic. Sometimes we are raised, encultured, or indoctrinated,with the beliefs we have, which leads me to the question, can we forgo the teaching of our parents while still, otherwise, finding them worthy of our honor?

I think so.

Oh my gosh..
I have never ever asked for sympathy, and I dont realy like people implying that I do

Now I have believed in
god all my life, however due to things that have happened i am in a spot that leaves me in a spot where most Christians would reguard me as being unforgivable, just because I am not sorry for what i am doing and have not asked for forgiveness.

That is a FACT.. No I dont want anyone trying to give me sypathy i wasnt askeing for it. I was just stating that s how it is. It does not worry me in the least.

Do I wonder about God of course I do. However i really do not care, nor have I ever worried about what people think of me, and the same goes for God, honestly if he does not love the person who he made me to be and who i am, then he is not God.

I love life and have nothing that I regret.. Do I need sympathy nope..

Do I blame myself..FOR WHAT.. i didnt realise there was anything to blame anyone for...

As for thinking I am no good, I know I am good cant you tell.

I am loved by my man, my family and friends, I was brought up to think that everything revolved around me.

So my head is way too big to think I would be no good.

It is only certain churches that think i am no good and that was all I was pointing out, that it is peoples perception of the Bible that makes me unforgivable in some peoples eyes, because they believe God cannot forgive me because I have not repented of my sin..

So to quickly make it clear, I was just making a point, I was not looking for sympathy, I do not think i am no good, I have never in my life thought poor me and i would never ever give up, I can never even think of a time in my life where I havent been hapy and thankful for my life. I have had a near perfect life, and I found your remark, quiet unbecomming.

Thank you kindly for your opinion, however it was quiet wrong, along the same lines as being told that you are weak for staying in an abusive relationship, or for a church believing that I am unforgivable..

Kindly stop guessing who I am without reading more of my posts or asking me.

to be worthy of, by my understanding, is to be deserving of

God does not have to DESERVE me because I believe he created me,,,he is the beginning who assigned my parents to be the vessel through which I entered the world, he needs to do nothing else to warrant my belonging to him

If I were to create something, it would not be an issue of me being worthy, my worthiness is iminent in my creating,,,


thats just my belief though

except to say, I didnt 'modernize' it, I merely interpreted what the words said,,,(EXCEPT FOR IMMORALITY), meaning that in the case that someone is put away for immorality there would be an EXCEPTION to the adultery clause when marrying someone else

this is what I read and what I believe and my conscious is completely clear about the sense of it,,,,

Bravo for being such a strong person (but I know your are) and pardon my misinterpretation of your words. It happens in these forums - and I have read many of your posts which is how I know you are strong which makes my misinterpretation even more 'unbecoming' as I didn't take the time to reconsider.

HOWEVER, I did make a point aside from the offense I gave and I will stand behind it - that the perception of values, characteristics, and traits, which people attribute to their god are more often a selection for the sake of convenience.

What scriptures are you reading in which 'immorality' gives people a pass on their marriage vows? (rhetorical) Because which ever scriptures you are referring to I can present other interpretations, sholarly and individual interpretations.

What that means, of course, is that there are many ways in which to interpret those sections.

It makes sense then that choosing the most convenient interpretation would be the likely behavior.

Personally, the only investment I have in shining this light in the darkness of denial, is to keep a more balance perspective with respect to the self-interpretation of religious law versus reality and civil law.

Because I have no religious doctrine I have no problem with any interpretation you use, unless, or until that interpretation creates a barrier between what you would believe and the legitimate rights and freedom of others. But it behooves me to keep reminding you and others that religious believe is STRICTLY self-interpreted.

Thats cool, and I agree with you.
People pick and choose int he Bible what they want to listen to and push the rest aside.
I do believe in God as I have lived that way for years, the reason I do not go to Church or practice the my faith is because I cannot as I am not living it..
So to me that would be hypocritacal.. and I have probably spelt that wrong.
But I cant see how anyone can say they are something and not do it..
So to me, although I have faith, I am no longer sure where my faith takes me.. but in saying that I also cannot put aside other beliefs either as I canot turn around to someone and say my God is real, but yours isnt as there is basis for everything.
Sooooooooooo I dont really know where I stand, which is why I find all these posts so interesting..
And yes by my own church I would be asked to change or leave..and I would not have a problem with that if I was still going.

misery loves company?

Noway, I'm not miserable..
Maybe because we all have different perceptions of him.

are we talking about the same guy that drown everyone on the planet except for a few dung shovelers on Noah's Ark?