Jeanniebean are you OK?

Here is what you wrote:

"And because children need to learn to READ, WRITE, and operate computers so they can make a living in the world."

Then you wrote:

I did not say "read or write a computer."

Are you OK?

Now, you write:

"Besides, most people can't even drag their kids to church on Sunday, I doubt if they would elect to take a class on religion in school."

That is why they call it an ELECTIVE. If children do not want to take a course on religion, they can ELECT not to do it. On the other hand, they can ELECT to do it. If you choose not to take such a course, that is your right. But why prevent those who do want to take a course the option of doing so.?

"There is too much other stuff they need to learn...like how to read. And the aren't even doing that. Today, most kids entering college can't even write a correct paragraph or sentence, can't spell etc."

What does one argument have to do with the other? As a result, let's get rid of all course that do not have to do with reading, writing, and arithmetic? But to not give people the option of taking it is illogical.

Here is why.

If, as you say, kids would not want to take it, what's the harm? If what you say is true, nobody would take such a course and then it would go away because it is not a popular course.

I think you know the opposite is true. if they did make Biblical study an option, people would flock to it, en masse.

because there are many different religions in the US, and i don't want my kids being taught something that has no meaning to me... that's what Sunday school is for, not the school systems.

and the Bible is a life skills book,,,,I never learned how to cut wood and I seem to be living just fine.

No, teaching the Bible is teaching the Bible. It is a book, people give it the 'label' of religion. It should not be used as myth or FACT because we have no proof of it being either. IT should be taught just as it is,, a guide and a reference and a document that has united Billions around the world and millions here in Ameria.

If it was an elective nobody would take it or very few probably. Also, it could not be taught at "truth" as your church teaches it. Then Christians would be all up in arms about that.

Face it. It's not going to happen. There are alternatives. Christian schools, college electives, home schooling etc. Stop trying to take your religion into the general population that does not want it.

The problem with that is, you can't make that claim unless you admit and can prove to everyone (Christians) that the Bible is JUST A BOOK like any other book. But that is not what Christians claim.

They claim that the Bible is THE WORD OF GOD. To be specific, it is the word of THEIR GOD. That is religion.

Prove and admit, and get everyone else to agree that the Bible is JUST A BOOK like any other book (Harry Potter etc.) and I will say, okay, let it in the school, but don't build a class around it. Put it in the library with all the rest of the regular books.

I think it should be given the opportunity to prove itself. PErhaps few would take it, but perhaps MANY would.

It can be taught as a book that has neither been proven or disproven, it doesnt have to be taught as the 'truth' that my church teaches and I would not be up in arms. After all, I have sunday to teach on the 'truth' of it.

I do face it. I dont believe it will happen either. It has become a slippery slope to include ANYTHING in our culture that has 'judgement' of others in it(except politicians and religious leaders and governments).


We are a culture that is overwhelmingly replacing 'right' and 'wrong' that happens to be in the Bible with the standard of personal and subjective 'right' and 'wrong' that allows us all to be whatever makes US 'feel' good. The Bible would be a contradiction to that culture. I totally understand that. I just think its sad and scary to see it so completely and unconditionally banned from and minimized in our childrens lives. But, as cowboy mentioned before, it is not something that wasnt prophecied or to be expected and not something that hasnt happened before in other cultures.

Jeanniebean writes:

"If it was an elective nobody would take it or very few probably."

Then, why not make it an elective and see what happens? In fact, as someone opposed to having it taught in school, if anything, you would support making it an elective. Then, when nobody enrolls, it would further strengthen your opinion as to not to have it in school.

"Also, it could not be taught at "truth" as your church teaches it. Then Christians would be all up in arms about that."

What about merely going into the books of the Bible. A curricula can be made. However, as you are not even supporting it as an elective is puzzling to me. You keep saying nobody will take it, so why not see if this is true?

In fact, did you know that 94% of people polled believe in God and 70% of people SUPPORT a Bible-based course in public schools?

"Face it. It's not going to happen. There are alternatives. Christian schools, college electives, home schooling etc. Stop trying to take your religion into the general population that does not want it."

Oh, it may happen. More and more people, disillusioned with society, with the worldly system, are turning to God. This generation coming up is rather conservative. You may be surprised, indeed.

MightyMoe writes

"Because there are many different religions in the US, and i don't want my kids being taught something that has no meaning to me... that's what Sunday school is for, not the school systems."

So, teaching five-year-old children how to use condoms has meaning to you?

Face it. It might happen. I know I personally would have taken it along with close to half my class year. And again if they didn't want the class, then I would suggest to them not taking it. It's an ELECTIVE, meaning they can take it if and when they wish or not at all. Wouldn't be mandatory.

lol. sorry, had to laugh at that last part.

No matter.

People are learning to think for themselves. Morals are natural. People (unless they are insane) basically know right from wrong.

And what is "wrong" with us "feeling good?" What is wrong with thinking for ourselves? Are we forever to remain children, ignorant? Is knowledge and judgment reserved only for imaginary spiritual beings the we can't really see or verify?

I don't think you should worry that our culture is beginning to think for themselves, take responsibility etc. This is NOT the end of morals or God. It is the end of false gods.

Seriously, you need to go back to school and learn how to diagram a sentence.

The verb is LEARN (the words "read" and "write" are being used as actions not verbs)

learn to read
learn to write
and learn to operate a computer.

I suppose it could be misread to mean read and write and operate a computer, but that is not how I meant it.

IF they can think so well for themself than why does the addition of one more book to their repertoire seem like its such an intimidating and offensive thing for them?

Surely, if they are so clear in right and wrong, one BOOK wont disrupt their 'moral compass'?

there is nothing wrong with feeling good unless feeling good becomes the ONLY aim

knowledge and judgment should be no more 'reserved' for 'spiritual beings' than it should be 'reserved' for each individual

children do EXACTLY what feels good to them, so, no we shouldnt remain as children, we should mature to think beyond our own personal gratification as the center of our existence

Because it is a waste of time and because YOU claim that it is THE WORD OF GOD.

They are just not going to take that bull anymore.

books are a waste of time? I guess it depends upon which book and whom you ask? isnt that a personal judgment that should not be FORCED upon those who disagree?

I am not asking it be taught as the WORD OF GOD, I am asking that it not be banned unconditionally.

I didn't mean it as a joke. I hope you got my point. I'm serious.
When the Bible is finally classified as just another book, and not the word of God, then I don't think there will be many objections to it being allowed in the school library. But you never know. Some school libraries don't allow Harry Potter in there either.

Then I said, that if you stop calling it the word of God, then maybe they will stop banning it.

All kidding aside, I am starting to worry about Jeanniebean. When I mention making Bible Study an elective, she says no because it is exclusive of other religions.

Fine, I then ask her what if there were a religious-based course, that was inclusive. She says No, because nobody will take it.

Then, when I explain to her what an elective is, she says No "Because it is a waste of time" even though 70% of people polled support a Bible-based curriculum.

If public schools are for the public, and the public overwhelmingly supports a Bible-based curriculum, to not have it because "it is a waste of time" is illogical. How can it be a waste of time if 70% of people support it?

As she is 62, an attractive 62, but 62 nonetheless, I am concerned that she may get a heart attack. Clearly, and I am not trying to be disrespectful here, but clearly, she is so incensed by this, she is not thinking clearly.

The Bible need not be classified as JUST a book anymore than newspapers should be classified as JUST another paper. Children study newspaper articles because, although the human element can and does put personal SPIN on certain events, there are actually things to be learned from those events and the details that are found in them.

The BIBLE is a very significant book. It need not be taught in school as the literal word of God, I doubt most christians would be unwilling to concede that point for the opportunity to have their children educated about its history and the community surrounding it of which they are a part.


Like a newspaper, it may have personal spin along with the details, but that is not sufficient enough to ban the entire book unconditionally anymore than it would be cause to ban american newspapers in american schools.

I did not say "books" are a waste of time. Yes, it depends on which book and whom you ask. And yes, the Bible being taught in schools would be a waste of time, and that is my opinion.

And I am not forcing my opinion on anyone. That is my opinion.