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Topic: Are Atheists Open for a Chat?
Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Mon 03/21/11 12:41 PM
The Bible need not be classified as JUST a book anymore than newspapers should be classified as JUST another paper. Children study newspaper articles because, although the human element can and does put personal SPIN on certain events, there are actually things to be learned from those events and the details that are found in them. The BIBLE is a very significant book. It need not be taught in school as the literal word of God, I doubt most christians would be unwilling to concede that point for the opportunity to have their children educated about its history and the community surrounding it of which they are a part. I doubt that too. But if the Bible is not the word of God, what then, makes it any more true or significant than other books or other scripture and why the big fuss about getting it into the schools? Your arguments are week because they don't address the real reason Christians are complaining about this issue. They are complaining because of their religion and their belief that the Bible is the word of God and that their God is the one true God and should be allowed in public schools. That is the real agenda. So your arguments are weak. The entire book was banned because of exactly this reason. Christian want to push their religion, they aren't doing it because they want to educate their children. Its all about their religion.

freakyshiki2009 Joined Sun 02/27/11 Posts: 902	Mon 03/21/11 12:50 PM
Jeanniebean, why do you feel books are a waste of time?

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Mon 03/21/11 12:52 PM
The Bible need not be classified as JUST a book anymore than newspapers should be classified as JUST another paper. Children study newspaper articles because, although the human element can and does put personal SPIN on certain events, there are actually things to be learned from those events and the details that are found in them. The BIBLE is a very significant book. It need not be taught in school as the literal word of God, I doubt most christians would be unwilling to concede that point for the opportunity to have their children educated about its history and the community surrounding it of which they are a part. I doubt that too. But if the Bible is not the word of God, what then, makes it any more true or significant than other books or other scripture and why the big fuss about getting it into the schools? Your arguments are week because they don't address the real reason Christians are complaining about this issue. They are complaining because of their religion and their belief that the Bible is the word of God and that their God is the one true God and should be allowed in public schools. That is the real agenda. So your arguments are weak. The entire book was banned because of exactly this reason. Christian want to push their religion, they aren't doing it because they want to educate their children. Its all about their religion. my arguments are only the mirror of yours you ask: But if the Bible is not the word of God, what then, makes it any more true or significant than other books or other scripture and why the big fuss about getting it into the schools? I asked: IF the bible is the word of God, but it is not mandated to be taught in SCHOOLS as such, what then makes it any LESS true or SIGNIFICANT than other books or scripture and why the big push to KEEP IT OUT OF SCHOOLS? you declare: Your arguments are week because they don't address the real reason Christians are complaining about this issue. They are complaining because of their religion and their belief that the Bible is the word of God and that their God is the one true God and should be allowed in public schools. I declare: I am not trying to address the 'real reason'(an ironic argument in itself, which I wont get into here) Christians are complaining. I am addressing MY reasons for questioning this issue. I question it because I dont see how ANY book can be banned from our educational system if it has intrinsic historical or academic value. I have no more proof that Christopher Columbus existed than you do that Jesus did, but enough people accept it as truth that it is relevant and valuable as a historical reference. Why is this book, the bible , singled out to be BANNED? That is my main question and concern.

freakyshiki2009 Joined Sun 02/27/11 Posts: 902	Mon 03/21/11 12:58 PM
I think Jeanniebean needs to realize that reading books is not a waste of time.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Mon 03/21/11 12:58 PM
Why is this book, the bible , singled out to be BANNED? That is my main question and concern. Because it it faith based. Because it is declared and decried as "The word of God" and that, my friend, is religion. Others would disagree that it is the word of God. What they might teach along with the Bible is a book called "The Christ Conspiracy." Then let those children decide which is true. Gee that would really confuse them.

freakyshiki2009 Joined Sun 02/27/11 Posts: 902	Mon 03/21/11 12:59 PM
Jeanniebean writes: "What they might teach along with the Bible is a book called "The Christ Conspiracy." Then let those children decide which is true. Gee that would really confuse them." Breathe in through nose. Breathe out through mouth. Breathe in through nose. Breathe out through mouth. Seriously, why do you thinks books are a waste of time?

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Mon 03/21/11 01:03 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Mon 03/21/11 01:04 PM
I think Jeanniebean needs to realize that reading books is not a waste of time. I think you need to stop purposely pretending to misunderstand my posts. There are more books in the world than any one person could possibly read. We only have so much time. Some books are not worth the time. Each person has to decide what books are worth their time and what books are not. I read the Bible. I don't think we need a class in our public school to study it. Just read it.

freakyshiki2009 Joined Sun 02/27/11 Posts: 902	Mon 03/21/11 01:06 PM
Wow, Jeanniebean, are you claiming that I took one sentence of what you wrote and took it entirely out of context? Are you saying that is something wrong to do? Now, you know how we Christians feel. I am glad you read the Bible now. Glad to see that I was able to help you in a small way.

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Mon 03/21/11 01:06 PM
Why is this book, the bible , singled out to be BANNED? That is my main question and concern. Because it it faith based. Because it is declared and decried as "The word of God" and that, my friend, is religion. Others would disagree that it is the word of God. What they might teach along with the Bible is a book called "The Christ Conspiracy." Then let those children decide which is true. Gee that would really confuse them. how many communities are based around this 'Christ Conspiracy'? How relevant is the information in terms of its impact upon the WORLD? I think this book would be a WASTE OF TIME, unless , it is taught as a book about someones opinion, then it has as much intrinsic value as any book someone took time to sit and write and (hopefully) research.

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Mon 03/21/11 01:13 PM
If we teach religion in grad schools that would be all the children would have time for since there are many different religions to be taught and to be fair all must be taught or none. List of Religions 1. Christianity: 2.1 billion 2. Islam: 1.3 billion 3. Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion 4. Hinduism: 900 million 5. Chinese traditional religion: 394 million 6. Buddhism: 376 million 7. primal-indigenous: 300 million 8. African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million 9. Sikhism: 23 million 10. Juche: 19 million 11. Spiritism: 15 million 12. Judaism: 14 million 13. Baha'i: 7 million 14. Jainism: 4.2 million 15. Shinto: 4 million 16. Cao Dai: 4 million 17. Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million 18. Tenrikyo: 2 million 19. Neo-Paganism: 1 million 20. Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand 21. Rastafarianism: 600 thousand 22. Scientology: 500 thousand Which this list is not complete. It can be taken in college when a mind is more mature to handle the logical determinations needed. The bible should be read as it is a story of fables written by men of old. And there should be a copy in the library at school for research purposes. To research the great imaginations of men of old and what lessons these men thought important at the time. I would think they would need to be more obvious about the different authors to each story though.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Mon 03/21/11 01:16 PM
Why is this book, the bible , singled out to be BANNED? That is my main question and concern. Because it it faith based. Because it is declared and decried as "The word of God" and that, my friend, is religion. Others would disagree that it is the word of God. What they might teach along with the Bible is a book called "The Christ Conspiracy." Then let those children decide which is true. Gee that would really confuse them. how many communities are based around this 'Christ Conspiracy'? How relevant is the information in terms of its impact upon the WORLD? If everyone read it and believed it, the impact could destroy Christianity. I think this book would be a WASTE OF TIME, unless , it is taught as a book about someones opinion, then it has as much intrinsic value as any book someone took time to sit and write and (hopefully) research. I would not expect you to say anything else. It's agenda and purpose is to challenge the Bible and Christianity. It is the most anti-Christ book of all books I have ever read. IMO.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Mon 03/21/11 01:17 PM
If we teach religion in grad schools that would be all the children would have time for since there are many different religions to be taught and to be fair all must be taught or none. List of Religions 1. Christianity: 2.1 billion 2. Islam: 1.3 billion 3. Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion 4. Hinduism: 900 million 5. Chinese traditional religion: 394 million 6. Buddhism: 376 million 7. primal-indigenous: 300 million 8. African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million 9. Sikhism: 23 million 10. Juche: 19 million 11. Spiritism: 15 million 12. Judaism: 14 million 13. Baha'i: 7 million 14. Jainism: 4.2 million 15. Shinto: 4 million 16. Cao Dai: 4 million 17. Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million 18. Tenrikyo: 2 million 19. Neo-Paganism: 1 million 20. Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand 21. Rastafarianism: 600 thousand 22. Scientology: 500 thousand Which this list is not complete. It can be taken in college when a mind is more mature to handle the logical determinations needed. The bible should be read as it is a story of fables written by men of old. And there should be a copy in the library at school for research purposes. To research the great imaginations of men of old and what lessons these men thought important at the time. I would think they would need to be more obvious about the different authors to each story though. The bible should be read as it is a story of fables written by men of old. And there should be a copy in the library at school for research purposes. To research the great imaginations of men of old and what lessons these men thought important at the time. I would think they would need to be more obvious about the different authors to each story though. You stated this as way for it to be presented and not promote a religion. But with presenting it this way it would be promoting a religion. It would promote Atheism. Why not just have the class studying the bible/God and not present it as either fact or fiction? Why not just study the bible as study material and allow the students to decipher if they believe it or not?

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Mon 03/21/11 01:18 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Mon 03/21/11 01:18 PM
Dragoness, Thanks! This is so true. Public Schools should not be about religion at all! Yet Christians cry like babies cause they can't teach their book in public schools. Take your kids to church. Leave other people's kids alone.

freakyshiki2009 Joined Sun 02/27/11 Posts: 902	Mon 03/21/11 01:22 PM
JeannieBean writes: "Christians cry like babies cause they can't teach their book in public schools." Who is crying? We're merely discussing. "Take your kids to church. Leave other people's kids alone." Why are you afraid of an elective? Also, Dragoness looks grumpy in her profile pic. She looks like someone peed in her Cherrios. Have you ever noticed how Christians just seem to smile more?

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Mon 03/21/11 01:22 PM
Why not just have the class studying the bible/God and not present it as either fact or fiction? Why not just study the bible as study material and allow the students to decipher if they believe it or not? Cowboy... duh... because that is playing favoritism. Kids will believe anything. They believed in Santa Clause. They have no reason at certain ages to think that adults would teach them a bunch of stuff that is not true so that they would have to guess who is lying and who is telling the truth. Kids are mixed up enough as it is. Why do you want to confuse them more?

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Mon 03/21/11 01:24 PM
If we teach religion in grad schools that would be all the children would have time for since there are many different religions to be taught and to be fair all must be taught or none. List of Religions 1. Christianity: 2.1 billion 2. Islam: 1.3 billion 3. Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion 4. Hinduism: 900 million 5. Chinese traditional religion: 394 million 6. Buddhism: 376 million 7. primal-indigenous: 300 million 8. African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million 9. Sikhism: 23 million 10. Juche: 19 million 11. Spiritism: 15 million 12. Judaism: 14 million 13. Baha'i: 7 million 14. Jainism: 4.2 million 15. Shinto: 4 million 16. Cao Dai: 4 million 17. Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million 18. Tenrikyo: 2 million 19. Neo-Paganism: 1 million 20. Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand 21. Rastafarianism: 600 thousand 22. Scientology: 500 thousand Which this list is not complete. It can be taken in college when a mind is more mature to handle the logical determinations needed. The bible should be read as it is a story of fables written by men of old. And there should be a copy in the library at school for research purposes. To research the great imaginations of men of old and what lessons these men thought important at the time. I would think they would need to be more obvious about the different authors to each story though. The bible should be read as it is a story of fables written by men of old. And there should be a copy in the library at school for research purposes. To research the great imaginations of men of old and what lessons these men thought important at the time. I would think they would need to be more obvious about the different authors to each story though. You stated this as way for it to be presented and not promote a religion. But with presenting it this way it would be promoting a religion. It would promote Atheism. Why not just have the class studying the bible/God and not present it as either fact or fiction? Why not just study the bible as study material and allow the students to decipher if they believe it or not? It doesn't promote any religion because the bible read as a book that it is of fables of old and their beliefs and fears and observations is good study material into the minds of men from a long time ago. The fact that men of that day believed in a vicious god that parented his flock with fear like parents of old traditions did is good study material for people wanting to learn of men of old.

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Mon 03/21/11 01:24 PM
Why is this book, the bible , singled out to be BANNED? That is my main question and concern. Because it it faith based. Because it is declared and decried as "The word of God" and that, my friend, is religion. Others would disagree that it is the word of God. What they might teach along with the Bible is a book called "The Christ Conspiracy." Then let those children decide which is true. Gee that would really confuse them. how many communities are based around this 'Christ Conspiracy'? How relevant is the information in terms of its impact upon the WORLD? If everyone read it and believed it, the impact could destroy Christianity. I think this book would be a WASTE OF TIME, unless , it is taught as a book about someones opinion, then it has as much intrinsic value as any book someone took time to sit and write and (hopefully) research. I would not expect you to say anything else. It's agenda and purpose is to challenge the Bible and Christianity. It is the most anti-Christ book of all books I have ever read. IMO. you should expect it after posting the opinion that The Bible is a waste of time,, it is just returning the medicine I am being fed,,, if it has an agenda to challenge the Bible, so what? That was not one of my questions. My question was in comparing its significance to the bible. The Bible having significance in how it has IMPACTED THE WORLD and how COMMUNITIES are built around it. I am simply posing the opinion that your suggested book is not as relevant and significant a resource for students as The Bible. Surprisingly though, IF the BIBLE were to be taught in school, I would have no issue whatsoever with an alternate view being posed BESIDE it. Let nature and all the self enlightened folks who are so capable of thinking for themself have equal access to BOTH sides. But none of this answers why the BIBLE should be banned?

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Mon 03/21/11 01:26 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Mon 03/21/11 01:26 PM
JeannieBean writes: "Christians cry like babies cause they can't teach their book in public schools." Who is crying? We're merely discussing. You are. Your antagonizing posts indicate that your feathers are ruffled. You are trying to ruffle mine. It ain't working. Get a different hobby. "Take your kids to church. Leave other people's kids alone." Why are you afraid of an elective? Also, Dragoness looks grumpy in her profile pic. She looks like someone peed in her Cherrios. Have you ever noticed how Christians just seem to smile more? I'm not the least bit afraid there will ever be any elective. It isn't going to happen, so give it up. I know lots and lots of Christians, and they definitely do not smile more.

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Mon 03/21/11 01:26 PM
Why not just have the class studying the bible/God and not present it as either fact or fiction? Why not just study the bible as study material and allow the students to decipher if they believe it or not? Cowboy... duh... because that is playing favoritism. Kids will believe anything. They believed in Santa Clause. They have no reason at certain ages to think that adults would teach them a bunch of stuff that is not true so that they would have to guess who is lying and who is telling the truth. Kids are mixed up enough as it is. Why do you want to confuse them more? It is the parents responsibity to teach faith based beliefs. Religion should be kept at home and churches as it is a private affair. The public has no need for it.

CowboyGH Joined Mon 10/05/09 Posts: 13651	Mon 03/21/11 01:27 PM
If we teach religion in grad schools that would be all the children would have time for since there are many different religions to be taught and to be fair all must be taught or none. List of Religions 1. Christianity: 2.1 billion 2. Islam: 1.3 billion 3. Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion 4. Hinduism: 900 million 5. Chinese traditional religion: 394 million 6. Buddhism: 376 million 7. primal-indigenous: 300 million 8. African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million 9. Sikhism: 23 million 10. Juche: 19 million 11. Spiritism: 15 million 12. Judaism: 14 million 13. Baha'i: 7 million 14. Jainism: 4.2 million 15. Shinto: 4 million 16. Cao Dai: 4 million 17. Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million 18. Tenrikyo: 2 million 19. Neo-Paganism: 1 million 20. Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand 21. Rastafarianism: 600 thousand 22. Scientology: 500 thousand Which this list is not complete. It can be taken in college when a mind is more mature to handle the logical determinations needed. The bible should be read as it is a story of fables written by men of old. And there should be a copy in the library at school for research purposes. To research the great imaginations of men of old and what lessons these men thought important at the time. I would think they would need to be more obvious about the different authors to each story though. The bible should be read as it is a story of fables written by men of old. And there should be a copy in the library at school for research purposes. To research the great imaginations of men of old and what lessons these men thought important at the time. I would think they would need to be more obvious about the different authors to each story though. You stated this as way for it to be presented and not promote a religion. But with presenting it this way it would be promoting a religion. It would promote Atheism. Why not just have the class studying the bible/God and not present it as either fact or fiction? Why not just study the bible as study material and allow the students to decipher if they believe it or not? It doesn't promote any religion because the bible read as a book that it is of fables of old and their beliefs and fears and observations is good study material into the minds of men from a long time ago. The fact that men of that day believed in a vicious god that parented his flock with fear like parents of old traditions did is good study material for people wanting to learn of men of old. Yes it does promote religion that way. It promotes Atheism. Atheism is a religion. A belief there are no God(s). That is why I said it should be presented as neither factual nor a "fable" allowing the children to come to their own conclusions.