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| Topic: Atheism Weak or Strong | |
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Eljay say I posted an article taken from the early 1990s in which Catholics were accused of murdering people in Africa? Would you say the same thing? They aren’t true believers in god? Where does it end? Just curious? What accountability will Christians ever take for anything? Let's approach the problem this way: There are Catholics who are christains - but not all Catholics are christains. Not all Christains are Catholics. Do you agree with these premises? Just curious. How can a Catholic not be a Christian? Just being born a Catholic does not make one a christian. For example - Hitler was a Catholic. He was not a christain. You make it sound like "Catholic" is a race, not a religion. You are not "born a Catholic." You may be born into a catholic family but that is not being "born a Catholic," as much as the Church would like to make you think so. Religion is a choice. Belief is a choice. Babies are born atheists, not Catholic, or any other religion. That is unless you are in favor of forcing religion onto people. |
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You dont seem to understand what the "No True Scotsman" fallacy is exactly. I already posted for you a definition. Did you not bother to read that? Its basically whenever a person claims that "no true so and so" is capable of doing something and its built on the assumption that the "so and so" is defined by whatever the person making the claim states at any given moment in time.
You cant do that. |
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Hitler was a Catholic. To me, and I suspect many people, that would make him a Christian. That is a problem, because it demonstrates that you are unclear on the concept of what a christain is. Why is that? How can you at least not know how one becomes a christain? I'm not saying you have to become one yourself - but if you are going to argue these points with those who know EXACTLY what is necessary to become a christain, you should at least be as knowledgeable about the topic as those who you claim to know at least as much as they do. |
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You dont seem to understand what the "No True Scotsman" fallacy is exactly. I already posted for you a definition. Did you not bother to read that? Its basically whenever a person claims that "no true so and so" is capable of doing something and its built on the assumption that the "so and so" is defined by whatever the person making the claim states at any given moment in time. You cant do that. But you argue the point of "No true Scotsman" and compare it with "Christians" without even knowing what a christain is. When there is clear evidence of it in the bible. If you spent as much time looking up the definition as you do attempting to find contradictions - you'd understand what I'm saying. It's why you have no foundation for your "evidence" because you argue from a position of ignorance. |
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Hitler was a Catholic. To me, and I suspect many people, that would make him a Christian. That is a problem, because it demonstrates that you are unclear on the concept of what a christain is. Why is that? How can you at least not know how one becomes a christain? I'm not saying you have to become one yourself - but if you are going to argue these points with those who know EXACTLY what is necessary to become a christain, you should at least be as knowledgeable about the topic as those who you claim to know at least as much as they do. Eljay, being a Catholic is not like being born a certain race. Its not a breed of dog. Hitler was a Catholic as far as anyone can tell. There is nothing to indicate that he was not. |
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Hitler was a Catholic. To me, and I suspect many people, that would make him a Christian. That is a problem, because it demonstrates that you are unclear on the concept of what a christain is. Why is that? How can you at least not know how one becomes a christain? I'm not saying you have to become one yourself - but if you are going to argue these points with those who know EXACTLY what is necessary to become a christain, you should at least be as knowledgeable about the topic as those who you claim to know at least as much as they do. I think your personal understanding of what is necessary to become a Christian is not the same as the general and accepted one in society. If you claim to be one, if you believe in the Jesus story, if you go to a Christian Church, you are considered a Christian. They don't have to carry I.D. cards or wear arm bands. They don't have to show their official Christian membership card signed by Jesus. Your particular belief is of what a Christian is, happens to be part of your particular belief. |
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You dont seem to understand what the "No True Scotsman" fallacy is exactly. I already posted for you a definition. Did you not bother to read that? Its basically whenever a person claims that "no true so and so" is capable of doing something and its built on the assumption that the "so and so" is defined by whatever the person making the claim states at any given moment in time. You cant do that. But you argue the point of "No true Scotsman" and compare it with "Christians" without even knowing what a christain is. When there is clear evidence of it in the bible. If you spent as much time looking up the definition as you do attempting to find contradictions - you'd understand what I'm saying. It's why you have no foundation for your "evidence" because you argue from a position of ignorance. I define a Christian as a person who believes in Jesus Christ and accepts him as their lord and savior. They also believe that Jesus is the son of god. Those are the basic terms of which I would designate someone as a Christian. A catholic is simply another denomination of Christianity. I would make the argument that about 75% of the population would define Christian in similar terms. Therefore, the opinion of one Born Again is outweighed by common reason and logic. |
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Edited by
Eljay
on
Tue 01/27/09 12:30 AM
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Eljay say I posted an article taken from the early 1990s in which Catholics were accused of murdering people in Africa? Would you say the same thing? They aren’t true believers in god? Where does it end? Just curious? What accountability will Christians ever take for anything? Let's approach the problem this way: There are Catholics who are christains - but not all Catholics are christains. Not all Christains are Catholics. Do you agree with these premises? Just curious. How can a Catholic not be a Christian? Just being born a Catholic does not make one a christian. For example - Hitler was a Catholic. He was not a christain. You make it sound like "Catholic" is a race, not a religion. You are not "born a Catholic." You may be born into a catholic family but that is not being "born a Catholic," as much as the Church would like to make you think so. Religion is a choice. Belief is a choice. Babies are born atheists, not Catholic, or any other religion. That is unless you are in favor of forcing religion onto people. But that's exactly what Catholicism is. You are baptised as an infant, and sent off to Sunday school by your parents. Do you think there's any choice there? I grew up in Boston. 98 per cent of everyone I knew through High School was a Catholic (yours truely included). Do you think there was a single one of us who had a choice about being a Catholic? To me - that's having religion "forced" on you. Everyone who's ever been baptised as a Catholic while an infant - had the religion forced on them. By the time adulthood is reached - most stop going to Mass, except maybe on Christmas and Easter to keep the parents happy - yet they never really consider themselves anything else but a Catholic. Why? Because they are conditioned to respond that way from youth. |
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Hitler was a Catholic. To me, and I suspect many people, that would make him a Christian. That is a problem, because it demonstrates that you are unclear on the concept of what a christain is. Why is that? How can you at least not know how one becomes a christain? I'm not saying you have to become one yourself - but if you are going to argue these points with those who know EXACTLY what is necessary to become a christain, you should at least be as knowledgeable about the topic as those who you claim to know at least as much as they do. Eljay, being a Catholic is not like being born a certain race. Its not a breed of dog. Hitler was a Catholic as far as anyone can tell. There is nothing to indicate that he was not. I grew up as a Catholic. Were you a Catholic in your youth? |
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Eljay say I posted an article taken from the early 1990s in which Catholics were accused of murdering people in Africa? Would you say the same thing? They aren’t true believers in god? Where does it end? Just curious? What accountability will Christians ever take for anything? Let's approach the problem this way: There are Catholics who are christains - but not all Catholics are christains. Not all Christains are Catholics. Do you agree with these premises? Just curious. How can a Catholic not be a Christian? Just being born a Catholic does not make one a christian. For example - Hitler was a Catholic. He was not a christain. You make it sound like "Catholic" is a race, not a religion. You are not "born a Catholic." You may be born into a catholic family but that is not being "born a Catholic," as much as the Church would like to make you think so. Religion is a choice. Belief is a choice. Babies are born atheists, not Catholic, or any other religion. That is unless you are in favor of forcing religion onto people. But that's exactly what Catholicism is. You are baptised as an infant, and sent off to Sunday school by your parents. Do you think there's any choice there? I grew up in Boston. 98 per cent of everyone I knew through High School was a Catholic (yours truely included). Do you think there was a single one of us who had a choice about being a Catholic? To me - that's having religion "forced" on you. Everyone who's ever been baptised as a Catholic while an infant - had the religion forced on them. By the time adulthood is reached - most stop going to Mass, except maybe on Christmas and Easter to keep the parents happy - yet they never really consider themselves anything else but a Catholic. Why? Because they are conditioned to respond that way from youth. Yeh, I know that is the way it is. That's just plain evil. EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL!! 
There are some fundamental fanatics that do the same to their own children. EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL!!
And all denominations come from that same CHURCH. And that church comes from EVIL. I don't know how you expect good to come from evil. |
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Besides Eljay, there were no Born Agains back in 1930s Germany I dont think. However Germany was the most heavily Christianized nation in all of Europe at that point in history.
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Hitler was a Catholic. To me, and I suspect many people, that would make him a Christian. That is a problem, because it demonstrates that you are unclear on the concept of what a christain is. Why is that? How can you at least not know how one becomes a christain? I'm not saying you have to become one yourself - but if you are going to argue these points with those who know EXACTLY what is necessary to become a christain, you should at least be as knowledgeable about the topic as those who you claim to know at least as much as they do. Eljay, being a Catholic is not like being born a certain race. Its not a breed of dog. Hitler was a Catholic as far as anyone can tell. There is nothing to indicate that he was not. I grew up as a Catholic. Were you a Catholic in your youth? Point? |
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So eljay, just curious, has a true Christian, by your definition ever done anything bad in all of history? If I started to name some good acts that Christians have been involved with like charities and things of that nature, would all of those people suddenly become "true Christians."?
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You dont seem to understand what the "No True Scotsman" fallacy is exactly. I already posted for you a definition. Did you not bother to read that? Its basically whenever a person claims that "no true so and so" is capable of doing something and its built on the assumption that the "so and so" is defined by whatever the person making the claim states at any given moment in time. You cant do that. But you argue the point of "No true Scotsman" and compare it with "Christians" without even knowing what a christain is. When there is clear evidence of it in the bible. If you spent as much time looking up the definition as you do attempting to find contradictions - you'd understand what I'm saying. It's why you have no foundation for your "evidence" because you argue from a position of ignorance. I define a Christian as a person who believes in Jesus Christ and accepts him as their lord and savior. They also believe that Jesus is the son of god. Those are the basic terms of which I would designate someone as a Christian. A catholic is simply another denomination of Christianity. I would make the argument that about 75% of the population would define Christian in similar terms. Therefore, the opinion of one Born Again is outweighed by common reason and logic. A christain is a disciple of Christ. That means wanting to walk in their life as Jesus did in his. It means "Jesus is Lord". That's what accepting Jesus is all about. In order to accept Christ as your Lord and savior, it necessitates recognizing oneself as "a sinner" (if you will) and in doing so, recognise the sin in one's life, and make a concious effort to repent. It involves recognizing that Jesus went to the cross for those sins, and owning up to the responsibility. That is the repentance part. Then in order to recieve the Holy spirit - one must desire that, and ask for it. Then, one is baptised as an outword expression of an inward change. Then God changes the heart, indwells one with the Holy spirit, and their walk with god begins - evidenced by the fruit of that spirit in their lives. That is what a christain is. It is the meaning of being "Born again". Jesus says in John 3:3 "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of heaven unless he is born again." So - what does it matter what common reason is about being born again. Unless one is born again - they are not a christain. There are no "denominations" in Christainity. That is a secular misnomer. The church is not a club that one joins - when one recieves the Holy Spirit - they are part of the church. After that - they can go where-ever they may chose to fellowship and take part in the sermons - but the "denominational" aspect is superfluous and irrelivant. There are no denominations in the scriptures. Only christains. It is actually wrong to divide into denominations according to the scripture. Naturally - that doesn't stop men from doing it. It is the nature of man to defy God - why would denominations be any different? Stop considering denominations to be representative of christainity - they're not. They are the beginning of driving people away from christianity, and are responsible for continuing to keep people from truly becoming christains, instead of just playing at it once or twice a week. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Tue 01/27/09 04:49 AM
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Catholics may be about religion, but they surely are not about evil. They still believe in Jesus Christ. As does every denomination. But still, each person has to make a personal decision in ones own heart...to accept Jesus as Lord ... on his/her own..... for oneself..... and that is what we have been trying to get across here. Cause THAT ALONE , is what makes one a christian.... Not just belonging to some denomination. And yes.... there are many christians , who have personally accepted Jesus Christ , in EVERY DENOMINATION. BUT NOW !!!!!! For someone to come on here and just blatantly call the church EVIL ???? Well... all I can say to that person is.... you are absolutely and positively fooling NO ONE with your game playing... But yourself. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Tue 01/27/09 04:39 AM
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And btw....
not only was Hitler NOT a christian... he was NOT even a catholic.... Cause the TWISTED way in which Hitler believed, was NOT supported or taught by the catholic church at all. Simply put .... just because a person CLAIMS to be something... doesn't MAKE a person become what he CLAIMS to be, at all. |
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One more thing....
On the OTHER RELIGION FORUM.... NOT ONCE has a Christian gone on there ..... and ATTACKED THE RELIGIOUS BELIEFS there. NOT ONCE HAS A CHRISTIAN GONE ON THERE CALLING YOUR BELIEFS EVIL. COULD THE SAME RESPECT BE SHOWN HERE NOW ? THANK YOU KINDLY. |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Tue 01/27/09 04:50 AM
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Eljay said:
So - what does it matter what common reason is about being born again. Unless one is born again - they are not a christain.
So if I am reading this statment correctly, you have basically asserted that every human being on the face of the planet is not a "true Christian" unless they are Born Again? Every Catholic, every Protestant, every Episcopalian, whatever it may be is not a true Christian but only pretending at being Christian? I think some people would beg to differ with that statment. If I were Christian I would certainly find that to be offensive. 
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One more thing.... On the OTHER RELIGION FORUM.... NOT ONCE has a Christian gone on there ..... and ATTACKED THE RELIGIOUS BELIEFS there. NOT ONCE HAS A CHRISTIAN GONE ON THERE CALLING YOUR BELIEFS EVIL. COULD THE SAME RESPECT BE SHOWN HERE NOW ? THANK YOU KINDLY. Are you talking to me MS? When have I referred to your personal spirituality as evil? I am entitled to make the statement that Adolph Hitler was a Catholic because it is historical fact. |
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Edited by
MorningSong
on
Tue 01/27/09 05:07 AM
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No Krimsa...
not ALL of them..... just ONLY those within every denomination, who have NOT truly accepted Christ yet. |
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