It's not what you think the bible said that makes/ doesn't make Hitler a Christian. What makes Hitler a Christian is Hitler's OWN words on his OWN beliefs. We have presented enough of Hitler's own words on here, to proof to a reasonable person(i.e. Not You) that Hitler thought of himself as a Christian.

Again, you use the passages that you want to use to define a Christian. Krimsa, myself, and others have brought up passages that disagree with you view. From what you keep posting, about your definition, it seems to me, that you definition of a Christian is someone who is without sin, but since human nature is not without sin, according to your definition, there is not a True believer on the planet.

There have been plenty of examples given in multiple threads. It is not my job to bring them all nicely into one post for you to ignore anyway.

It is all about what authority you decide to accept and believe. If you decide to accept and believe the Church authority who tells you that the Bible is the word and work of God then that is your choice.

The problem seems to be that not everyone accepts that authority, and the ones who do are put in a position to have to defend their authority.

Hence all the debates about the Bible.

Science just wants to learn the truth about things and when what they learn does not support the Bible, people get upset.

Science is not the enemy of the Bible. It does not seek to destroy religion. It seeks truth.

No - that's not my belief. No one is without sin.
A Christian is just someone who is forgiven through their faith in Jesus.

We are just in disagreement over semantics.

I'm under the impression that to you - faith is simply belief. That if one claims themself to be something, they are.

I determine people to be what their actions demonstrate - not what they say. People lie. Actions don't lie - they are what they are.

A believer is essentially someone who knows they have sinned - that their sin has separated them from God, and that no amount of Good works can make up for it. They must understand, and believe that their sin sent Jesus to the cross - and this action was done to atone for the sins of those who believe that He did that for them. This is what the gospels boil down to. It was the reason Jesus came. To save the lost. His words - not mine.

You and Krimsa may think that Hitler was a christian - but the bible, which by it's own claims are the word of God - demonstrate otherwise. I doubt that God thinks Hitler was a christian - since He made sure to inspire the writers of scripture to document those actions that cause self deception.

I have not seen one example. If I had - I would have sited it. I don't ignore the posts - I agree with them if they're right, refute them if the logic is fallacious.

But I knew you wouldn't give any examples. That's why I question your claim. It's fallacious.

Are these people are "real Christians"?

"There is a long history of the persecution of Jews by Christians, starting with the burning of synagogues in the 4th century, to numerous killings of Jews who would not convert to Christianity, to the extermination of Jewish communities in many European countries, all the way to a number of extermination camps during World War II in Yugoslavia, headed by a Franciscan Friar and run by Catholics, which were the equal of the German kilns of Auschwitz — killing about half a million people alone in this small country."

Also, Since people lie, actions of those people lie too. So, you really have no way of truly determining what the truth is.

I agree - though I think the bible itself speaks of it's authority. I don't need a leader of a church to tell me the scriptures are the word of God - the text tells me that. I long ago abandoned any church as a representative authority. I just see them as a group of people with a devotion towards God. Whatever God they may believe. I get my God from the bible - not a church.

I will add that science is about the "How" of things, and not the "Why". Religion is more about the "Why" - and not the "How".

The two are really not related.

As to your quote - these people are not christians if all I have is the information provided. They may claim to be, their actions prove otherwise.

In terms of whether or not someone is a christian - it's purely subjective as to man's perception, for no one but God knows the heart, and "the heart is wicked"... However - it doesn't take much discernment to doubt a claim when the actions are totally contradictory to that claim. It's easier to determine who's NOT a christain, than who is one. That's all I'm saying. For instance - I know you are not one, because you claim not to be one. Also, the manner of your posts indicate a serious doubt should you decide to claim to be one. Not hard to discern that. Now - I couldn't say that Morningsong was definitely a christian - but I know she claims to be one, and through the evidence of her posts, I have no reason to doubt her claim, because her actions support her claim.
That's the test.

I find it hard to grasp the idea that murder is a christain attribute. It contradicts the scriptures in this respect. No where in the New Testament is this condoned. Jesus even goes as far as to say that if you look at someone with hate, you have essentially commited murder.

A far cry from determining the actions of those in your quote are "following Jesus", and doing what he said to do. It's illogical to state this is christian behavior when it is in direct conflict with the words of Jesus.

You get your god from the Bible? Who do you think put the Bible together? .... THE CHURCH.

If you think god did it, think again. (It was men.)

I would think you would know that.

Jeannie,

The Bible is inspired and has authority, not because a church declared it so, but because God made it so.!!! God delivered it by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and declared that it would abide forever.

All scripture is inspired of God.The Old Testament was written by Moses, David and Solomon, prophets, seers and kings.

There was no "CHURCH" of any kind to claim responsibility for it. God inspired individuals to bring God's word to the people. !!


Sally

That is not considered credible evidence by many people. If you want to believe it on faith alone, go ahead, who’s stopping you? To convince anyone else, it would have to pass the test of scientific scrutiny.

Eljay said:


Eljay, the entre point of this being posted was to show you that there is NO clear cut consensus of opinion on what it entails exactly to be "saved". All of these passages are differing accounts and ALL were taken from the scripture.

How do we know that Hitler did not do many of these? We already know he was a Catholic and even wanted to be a priest in his childhood.




What must you do to be saved?

Say the right things.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified. -- Matthew 12:37

Do the right things.
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life. -- John 5:29
For you render to each one according to his works. -- Psalm 62:12

I the Lord ... give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. -- Jeremiah 17:10

When the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness ... and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul. -- Ezekiel 18:27

For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. Matthew 16.27

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. -- Matthew 25:34-36

Who will render to each one according to his deeds. ... For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified. -- Romans 2:6, 13

For we must all appear before the jugment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. -- 2 Corinthians 5:10

Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. -- 2 Corinthians 11:15

The Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work. -- 1 Peter 1:17

I will give unto every one of you according to your works. -- Revelation 2:23

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. -- Revelation 20:12-13


Believe the right things.
A man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. -- Romans 3:28
Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. -- Romans 5:1

A man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ. -- Galatians 2:16

For by grace are ye saved through faith. -- Ephesians 2:8


Do and believe the right things.
Faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. -- James 2:17

Do the will of God.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. -- Matthew 7:21

Believe in Jesus.
Whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. -- John 3:16
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life -- John 3:36

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved. -- Acts 16:31


Be born again.
Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. -- John 3:3

Hear the words of Jesus and believe in whoever sent him.
He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life. -- John 5:24

Be born of water and the spirit.
Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. -- John 3:5

Be washed by the Holy Ghost.
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. -- Titus 3:5

Be converted and become like a little child.
Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. -- Matthew 18:3

Believe and be baptized.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. -- Mark 16:16

Call upon the name of the Lord.
Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. -- Acts 2:21

Confess with your mouth "Jesus is Lord" and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead.
If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. -- Romans 10:9

Follow the commandments (at least some of them).
If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. -- Matthew 19:17-19
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life. -- Revelation 22:14


Keep the commandments (at least some of them), give all your money to the poor, and follow Jesus.
And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? ... Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
...thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.-- Luke 18:18-22

Keep the commandments and the faith of Jesus.
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. -- Revelation 14:12

Endure to the end.
He that endureth to the end shall be saved. -- Matthew 10:22, 24:13, Mark 13:13

Wait until you die and then get baptized.
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? -- 1 Corinthians 15:29

Don't judge other people.
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged. -- Matthew 7:1, Lk.6:37

Have lots of babies.
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing. -- 1 Timothy 2:14-15

Don't defile yourself with women. (Be a virgin male.)
...the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. -- Revelation 14:3-4

Be given by the Father and come to the Son.
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. -- John 6:37

Be chosen (predestinated) by God.
For many are called, but few are chosen. -- Matthew 22:14
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate ... Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.-- Romans 8:29-30

For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. -- Romans 9:11

He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love. Having predestinated us ... according to the good pleasure of his will. -- Ephesians 1:4-5


Be poor, not rich.
Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. -- Matthew 19:23-24
But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. -- Luke 6:24

Ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. -- James 5:1


Be more righteous than the scribes and Pharisees.
Except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. -- Matthew 5:20

Eat Jesus' body and blood.
Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. -- John 6:53-54

Just ask.
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.-- Matthew 7:7-8

All you need is love.
Love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God. -- 1 John 4:7
He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. -- Luke 10:26

That last post I submitted above was NOT about evidence, it was in regard to jeannies statements
about the church and God.


Sally

I wasn't directing it towards you specifically but the comment was meant as a general response. Anyway, I am waiting to hear back from Eljay on my points. Good day to you.

Bump

Hmmm... Missed this one Krimsa. Sorry - I am in class all week-end so I may not get to it till monday, butI will respond.

Do you think Hilter was Crazy?

I feel he was most assuredly a sociopath but back then, they probably did not have quite the same degree of understanding of borderline personality disorder. I think this because he was charismatic and people were drawn to him which is very often the case with sociopaths.

These men were under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

I dont.