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| Topic: Atheism Weak or Strong | |
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Gosh this thread started off being about Atheism?   Well, let's face it. Neither you nor JB are atheists. You both believe in Antheism. I'm not so sure about that. I recently have been considering that I may be an atheist. What is antheism? |
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Neither Jesus nor St. Paul, nor any other Biblical figure is recorded as saying anything in opposition to the institution of slavery. Slavery was very much a part of life in Palestine and in the rest of the Roman Empire during New Testament times. Quoting Rabbi M.J. Raphall, circa 1861, "Receiving slavery as one of the conditions of society, the New Testament nowhere interferes with or contradicts the slave code of Moses; it even preserves a letter [to Philemon] written by one of the most eminent Christian teachers [St. Paul] to a slave owner on sending back to him his runaway slave."
People in debt (and their children) were still being sold into slavery in New Testament times: Matthew 18:25: "But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made." Priests still owned slaves: Mark 14:66: "And as Peter was beneath in the palace, there cometh one of the maids of the high priest:" Jesus is recorded as mentioning slaves in one of his parables. It is important to realize that the term "servant" in the King James Version of the Bible refers to slaves, not employees like a butler, cook, or maid. Here, a slave which did not follow his owner's will would be beaten with many lashes of a whip. A slave who was unaware of his owner's will, but who did not behave properly, would also be beaten, but with fewer stripes. This would have been a marvelous opportunity for Jesus to condemn the institution of slavery and its abuse of slaves. But he is not recorded of having taken it: |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 01/21/09 04:08 PM
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 Thank you for the discussion Krimsa. But I think we are at an impass.There is no way to convince me (or anyone that actually knows the scripture) that Paul endorsed slavery "If you are not with me, you are against me." "If you don't condemn slavery, you are endorsing it." I agree with Krimsa. Slavery was a common practice. Anyone who was not against it, were for it. Period. The argument I get for this is that the alternative to slavery in times of war is death without mercy. Be killed or be my slave. But if you were not a virgin, you were out of luck. |
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I think Abra meant to say Pantheism. There is no Antheism that I could find.
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I think Abra meant to say Pantheism. There is no Antheism that I could find. Oh he forgot to pee. I mean he forgot the P.
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Wed 01/21/09 04:58 PM
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 Do Pagans believe in slavery? Do modern day pagans?  Sex slaves yes. Gosh this thread started off being about Atheism? Well, let's face it. Neither you nor JB are atheists. You both believe in Antheism. I'm not so sure about that. I recently have been considering that I may be an atheist. What is antheism? I think it was a bad pun, which actually made me laugh once I got it, which admittedly was not right away. Ant-Theism. JB you mentioned your ants worshiping you as a goddess, I thought it was cute, but took me a few rereads to get it. 
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Wed 01/21/09 05:06 PM
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AHH! I get it now. I would have never realized that unless you said something. It’s because we were talking about ants and I said they were all commies and therefore atheists.
Thats actually true that bees and ants live in Communistic societies. That was some of the criticism of Communism in that people felt it would not work as a real political model with humans. |
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 OHHHHH ANT-THEISM. I get it now.  
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I feel that Atheism will be the biggest denomination one day. I am not sure how long it will take, but it surely is growing at a 110% each year as more and more people will fall into the category of not believing in a mythology. People want facts now and not hocus-pocus anymore.
Of course I could be wrong about this prediction, but I have done a research and have seen in Germany alone that over 66% of young adults of the age of 19 to 27 are atheists and about 14% are agnostic. The older generations are religious however because they intergrate it with traditions. As the older generations die off the younger generations will emphasize on other issues that are more important for the welfare of the planet. At least I would like to see it this way. The poorer countries will take a little longer as religion is still very important in their lives with exception to the United States as many are strong believers (maybe because of all the advertisement and constant door knocking of missionaries) and the huge television shows on religion on every second channel. In the long run if mediterrenean mythology doesn't trigger a third world war it might have a chance to live a bit longer, but that is not for certain. There is much in play here and one can only assume what could happen to the welfare of human life. I just hope that people will eventually see that superstition is not the path to go for a peaceful and productive planet of coexistence. |
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Atheism or ANTheism? You must be more specific smiless. Just kidding.
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Atheism or ANTheism? You must be more specific smiless. Just kidding. I knew what James was talking about from the beginning. I was going to add beetheism but left it
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Beetheism!
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I think it is very contradictive that people who do not believe in the God of the bible or the bible for that matter would quote his words, (words they dont particularly believe
in) yet they use these same words to sensationalize their argument. Its Amazing! Grace and Peace!  Yamin |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 01/21/09 07:59 PM
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I think it is very contradictive that people who do not believe in the God of the bible or the bible for that matter would quote his words, (words they dont particularly believe in) yet they use these same words to sensationalize their argument. Its Amazing! Grace and Peace! Yamin They can't quote "his words" if they do not believe that "he" exists, so it is no contradiction at all. After being assaulted by scripture for our entire lives, as if it were the ultimate authority over everything, we have learned to use that same scripture and throw it back at them. If it is true for them, then they should be willing to listen. Its only fair Yamin. |
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I think it is very contradictive that people who do not believe in the God of the bible or the bible for that matter would quote his words, (words they dont particularly believe in) yet they use these same words to sensationalize their argument. Its Amazing! Grace and Peace! Yamin Am I not allowed to use a historical document as a reference? What are you talking about? 
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Edited by
smiless
on
Wed 01/21/09 08:14 PM
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Perhaps what Yamin is indicating is we as non religious believers don't understand the meaning of what the scriptures actually say and shouldn't use them however we wish to.
Of course we see them as they are and give our opinion on it, which is by a person of faith in a mediterrenean mythology incorrect as they roll their eyes shaking that we don't have the intelligence to comprehend the meanings of what is actually told. and those who don't believe in this faith roll their eyes shaking their heads not understanding how they can still believe in such scriptures. It is a neverending struggle between believers and nonbelievers with no end in site. In the long run it is hard to convince others who are commited to their beliefs or not, yet not impossible that is why everyone continues to shed their belief or opinions on the studies of these old belief systems. |
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Well in this case, on this thread, it was explicitly clear what was being discussed.
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Well yanno, MorningSong, it happens here regularly, doesn't it? Some Christian gets all puffed up and quotes the immortal line "This is a Christian Nation and if you as an anostic/atheist don't like, you can leave." And the silence from your side of the room is deafening... "I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." -- George H.W. Bush -Kerry O. Hmmm... I don't know Kerry. Though I know there's a mountain of evidence that the founding fathers were influenced by christian beliefs, and biblical concepts - and a majority of them were themselves believers, it was never intended that the country would be known as a "Christian nation", but rather one founded on christian principles. To me - there is a difference. I would say that this has not been a christian nation in my lifetime. It might have been once. It's not any more. I'd quibble on the 'Christian principles' part of your reply. I think it was more like 'legal principles' from sources like the Magna Carta, et al. I don't think it's any longer possible for someone like Thomas Jefferson, who was, at times, antagonistic towards Christian clergy, to be elected to the highest office in the land. And I doubt if even the most brilliant of atheist scholar or statesman would stand a chance of getting elected either. The same visceral xenophobia that Christians have been conditioned to accept without reflection would prevent it from happening in many lifetimes. If you'll pardon the expression, at lot of things would have to go to hell before even a charismatic atheist or agnostic would stand a chance. JMO, feel free to disagree. But show your work. :) -Kerry O. Actually - the research done by the University of Houston on the writtings of the original fathers and the founding documents of the country have shown that the most referenced work of the time was the bible. That is not to take away from the numerous other documents referenced - the Mayflower Compact, Magna Carter etc. So it's hard to get around the idea that Christain Principles did not come into play for the founding fathers. Many of them were clergy anyway - so it only stands to reason that the bible and Christian principles would be sighted. I wouldn't disagree about the difficulties of a charismatic Atheist or even an Agnostic being elected to the Presidency. I don't think there's ever been a time in the history of the country that it would have been possible. It took all the way until Kennedy before a Catholic would even be considered. But these days... who knows. With the election of Obama - I would say that the norms of political elections have fallen by the wayside, and who knows, maybe we'll see an Atheistic president before either of us buys the farm. |
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I always look at Atheist in general as being weak because they don't stand for anything.You live your whole life not standing up for anything and then you complain that life is hard for you because there are people around you who do believe in something.Worse yet there are people who believe in something and some stupid Atheist is trying to take that away and for what?I wonder what kind of a country we would have if when we were growing up our parents and teachers told us we shouldn't believe in anything.I just can't see the logic. I have also found Aeithest to be the biggest hypocrites and whiners I have ever seen in my life.They constantly complain about God this and God that.The constantly complain about Jesus and the Christians yet they do not believe in either at all!They debate religion saying Jesus did this and Jesus did that trying to win a case and the whole time they are trying to get facts from a book they don't believe in.It really makes you look stupid when you tell me there is no God yet you try to debate me with facts about God.If you really didn't believe in God you wouldn't debate at all because what is the point in debated someone that you know doesn't exist?I will have much more respect for a Aeithest that doesn't debate religion because he really doesn't believe in God then some idiot that wants to argue for the only reason to insult my religion. Atheist are the most selfish people on earth.They are not happy with other people even having a belief so they want that taken away.Is it so hard to just mind your own business and let people believe what they want to believe instead of what you think they should believe in?There is also nothing to be gained from believing in nothing. See what I mean, Eljay? Almost as if on cue. If the Golden Horde somehow rode out of history to beseige this 'Christian Nation', and a group of engineers like myself invented the weapons and techniques to stop them, to whom do you think people like Thomas would give the credit? Yeah, me too. I'd probably get a nice 'Christian' funeral, though. -Kerry O. Well - I can't speak for Thomas' experiences that bring him to these conclusions, but I don't find them to be indicitive to the way christians think. Having been an Atheist in my youth - I don't recall ever having been any of the things he's presumed Atheists to be - but that is my expereince with it. However - I would agree with him that there are certainly Atheists who "fit the profile" as they say - just as I'm quite aware that there are Christains who fit this profile as well. There are always going to be extremists, and generally, they fit Thomas' profile. That can be said for Atheists, Christains, Radical Islamists, Satanists - whatever. |
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YES! America is a land with an official religion, just like Iran! Americans everywhere worship the GOD of CEREMONIAL DEISM. That is why we have "under God" in the pledge of Allegiance and "In God We Trust" as our national motto (instead of that namby-pamby "E Pluribus Unum!") and on our coins and currency. Christianity? Bah! Judaism? Bah! And forget Islam and Hinduism and Buddhism and the cult of Cthulhu. Our deity is Providence. The Capital City of Rhode Island is even named for our national God. You are carelessly mixing terms here. The founding fathers established this country on the belief in God - but the freedom from a national Religion. Religion and God are not freely substituted as synonimous terms. The Founding Fathers were Deists. This has been established probably on about a dozen or more threads. In this statement I was speaking of Ceremonial Deism and the concept of Providence. Established you say. Nonsense. Claimed perhaps - but there is no evidence to support the claim. There were over 100 founding fathers. Name 50 of them who were Deists and I'll support your claim. Even a quick perusal of Wiki will demonstrate that your claim is fallacious. |
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