100% FREE ONLINE DATING
sponsored links
Previous
| Topic: Atheism Weak or Strong | |
|---|---|
|
|
|
Christianity, in it's one and only sincere precept, is about being like Christ, who did NOT molest children, was NOT bloodthirsty, and was NOT murderous. You can say whatever you like to attempt to link Christianity with evil but it doesn't fly... It's in error, plain and simple. Never hear of wolves in sheep's clothing? Rhetorical question, as I know everyone has... Explain that to 11 million dead people and their surviving families. Show me evidence that Christ advocated murder... His teachings were against any and all such things. Show me the evidence that Christians are not responsible for the murder, rape, torture and imprisonment of millions over the centuries. You can start with Hitler or the Crusades if you like. Rationalize all that away. |
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
AllenAqua
on
Sun 01/25/09 05:06 AM
|
|
Christianity, in it's one and only sincere precept, is about being like Christ, who did NOT molest children, was NOT bloodthirsty, and was NOT murderous. You can say whatever you like to attempt to link Christianity with evil but it doesn't fly... It's in error, plain and simple. Never hear of wolves in sheep's clothing? Rhetorical question, as I know everyone has... Explain that to 11 million dead people and their surviving families. Show me evidence that Christ advocated murder... His teachings were against any and all such things. Show me the evidence that Christians are not responsible for the murder, rape, torture and imprisonment of millions over the centuries. You can start with Hitler or the Crusades if you like. Rationalize all that away. I have no doubts that lots of bad people claim to be "Christian". It doesn't make it so. Your statement that Christians are murderous is even more absurd and false as if I said that all snakes are poisonous, or any number of ridiculous blanket statements. Did Hitler follow Christ's teachings? no... Did Christ teach or advocate killing in his name? no... No one can rightiously claim they're Christian unless they sincerely abide by Christ's teachings. They can claim it unrightiously, but it's false. Please read again "WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING". In fact, because such folks commited these vile acts using Christ's name, it makes them about as un-Christian as it gets... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
Krimsa
on
Sun 01/25/09 05:16 AM
|
|
I have no doubts that lots of bad people claim to be "Christian". "No true Scotsman." It doesn't make it so. Like I said, try explaining that to the families of 11 million dead at the hands of Hitler. Your statement that Christians are murderous is even more absurd and false as if I said that all snakes are poisonous, or any number of ridiculous blanket statements. I asked you to somehow refute the historical evidence that depicts Christians as murderers over the centuries. Did Hitler follow Christ's teachings? no... Well in that case, he managed to fool all of the Christian citizenry of the most Christian nation in the world at that point in history, Germany. Did Christ teach or advocate killing in his name? no... Then why do it? No one can rightiously claim they're Christian unless they sincerely abide by Christ's teachings. Then dont kill people. They can claim it unrightiously, but it's false. No true Scotsman again |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Once again, this has become an exercise in futility. There's no reasoning with a closed mind.
Some people are just determined to hold on to their preposterous prejudices, no matter how offensive... 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If I have offended you in ANY way then I would apologize however I’m not sure how as everything I have said is based in historical reality.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Your statement that Christians are murderous is even more absurd and false as if I said that all snakes are poisonous, or any number of ridiculous blanket statements. The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, Salem Witch Trials, (And while I can't convince you otherwise, there is enough evidence,IMO, that Hitler at least viewed himself as a christian) The Holocaust. . . |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If I have offended you in ANY way then I would apologize however I’m not sure how as everything I have said is based in historical reality. If I claimed that you and your beliefs are responsible for someone's death, would that not only be in error, but also be offensive to you? If I claimed that Atheistism or any other philosophical outlook should own up to all the crimes of those who share those views commited, would that not only be ridiculously offensive but also a complete fallacy? Is everyone who claims to be something,in fact what they claim to be? How was Christ responsible for Hitler's crimes? If he'd been an Atheist or a pagan, would that make atheism or paganism responsible for the deaths and sufferings of millions? Is the voter who decidely votes against a politician who's corrupt, still responsible for the corruption or evil deeds of that politician? Simply by association alone? The citizens of Germany allowed Hitler the power to commit murder and carry out his evil agenda. To imply that Christ annoited his regime is offensive, and completely bugus. It shows that in your agenda to disparage my faith, you have absolutely no boundries whatsoever. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
Krimsa
on
Sun 01/25/09 06:22 AM
|
|
Yeah the Hitler thing just leads to argument and it occupies any thread it is mentioned on. There is more than enough evidence to support Hitler's Christianity however. It’s not as if we need Hitler to substantiate the grievace atrocities perpetrated by Christians. Its gravy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If I claimed that you and your beliefs are responsible for someone's death, would that not only be in error, but also be offensive to you? No. I am not a silly, blabbering fool either. I would listen to what you had to say, evaluate your evidence as given to me and then answer you to the best of my ability. If I felt that the accusations you were making were in order, I would absolutely acknowledge this. If I claimed that Atheistism or any other philosophical outlook should own up to all the crimes of those who share those views commited, would that not only be ridiculously offensive but also a complete fallacy? For one thing, I am not an Atheist so why would I need to take any personal responsibility for any crimes perpetrated by Atheists throughout history? No, as stated I do not become offended by such historical realities because I actually study history and am not silly. Is everyone who claims to be something,in fact what they claim to be? If you claim to be something and all evidence points in the direction of substantiating that you are indeed something and everyone else who is also something agrees that you are something than yes. How was Christ responsible for Hitler's crimes? Christ has been dead for 2000 some years. What are you talking about? If he'd been an Atheist or a pagan, would that make atheism or paganism responsible for the deaths and sufferings of millions? Christ is not responsible for anything other than what Christ did. You as a Christian have the responsibility to at least acknowledge this factual historical data. Those who would ignore history are doomed to repeat it. Is the voter who decidely votes against a politician who's corrupt, still responsible for the corruption or evil deeds of that politician? Simply by association alone? The German Christian citizenry knew dam well what Hitler's intentions were and they supported him. He would have NEVER come to power without their help and the financial backing and support of both the Catholic and Protestant church. The citizens of Germany allowed Hitler the power to commit murder and carry out his evil agenda. Yes you are right. The German Christian population. To imply that Christ annoited his regime is offensive, and completely bugus. It shows that in your agenda to disparage my faith, you have absolutely no boundries whatsoever. I once again challenge you to poke ANY holes in this historically documented reality. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
AllenAqua
on
Sun 01/25/09 06:16 AM
|
|
If you bother to read this, which I doubt since your mind is closed, you'll see the truth about Hitler's alledged Christianity. btw, the author's an agnostic. "Hitler and Christianity by Edward Bartlett-Jones What were Hitler's religious beliefs? It is sometimes said that Hitler was a believer in God and specifically that he was a Christian or at least was brought up as a Catholic. After all, weren’t most Austrians, certainly in the late 19th century, nominally Catholics? And what about the frequent references to “God” and “Providence” in his speeches, or to immortality, or the quasi-religious imagery of Nazism? In contrast to his adult life, relatively little is known about Hitler's childhood and upbringing, and what we do know sheds only dim light on his religious persuasion. His mother was apparently a pious Catholic, according to Hitler's biographers, but Hitler’s own connection with the church during his early youth was not strong. We know he attended a nearby monastery for singing lessons, probably at his father’s behest (Ian Kershaw, Hitler: 1889 – 1936 Hubris, WW Norton, 2000), and that the young Hitler was impressed by the grandiose architecture of great churches. It can reasonably be said that, because of the region in which he was brought up, and the religious faith of at least one of his parents, Hitler was nominally a Catholic. Among his biographers, however, none assert that the boy was even baptized, although it is likely, and there is no evidence of any particularly strong religious element in his upbringing or of feelings of faith like those held by his mother. So much for Hitler’s early life. What about his attitude to religion and the Church later on? In Mein Kampf (1925) Hitler criticized the Catholic Church in its political form, which he said failed to recognize Germany’s and Europe’s “racial problem”. His Party Charter for the nascent Nazional Sozialistische Deutsche Arbeiter Partei demanded in Article 24, in contrast to strong Christian control of German’s spiritual life, “complete freedom of religion” (in so far, of course, as that was not a “danger to Germany”) (William Shirer, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, Arrow, 1991). Indeed, the official “Nazi Party Philosopher”, Alfred Rosenberg, (later to be hanged at Nuremberg), appointed of course with Hitler’s consent, was totally opposed to Christianity. However, Hitler the politician was also aware that to achieve power he would need to win votes from the Catholic Centre Party and could not afford total alienation. Upon attaining office and enjoying a free hand, what line did Hitler take on religion and the Church? Five days after becoming Chancellor in 1933, Hitler allowed a sterilization law to pass, and had the Catholic Youth League disbanded (Shirer, The Rise). The latter was a measure applied to other youth organizations too, in order to free up young people to join the Hitler Youth. At the same time, Hitler also made an agreement with the Vatican to allow the Catholic Church to regulate its own affairs. (It is probably worth noting here the low value that Hitler placed on written agreements.) Parents were pressured to take their children out of religious schools. When the Church organized voluntary out-of-hours religious classes, the Nazi government responded by banning state-employed teachers from taking part. The Crucifix symbol was even at one point banned from classrooms in one particular jurisdiction, Oldenburg, in 1936, but the measure met with fierce public resistance and was rescinded. Hitler remained conscious of the affection for the Church felt in some quarters of Germany, particularly Bavaria. Later on, though, a wartime metal shortage was used as the excuse for melting church bells (Richard Grunberger, The Twelve Year Reich, Henry Holt, Henry Holt, 1979 and Richard Grunberger, A Social History of the Third Reich, Penguin, 1991). Hitler’s references to providence and God and the ritualistic pageantry of Nazism were more than likely pagan than Christian. Earthly symbols of German valour and Teutonic strength were to be worshipped - not the forgiving, compassionate representative of an “Eastern Mediterranean servant ethic imposed on credulous ancient Germans by force and subterfuge” (the phrase is Burleigh’s own, in Michael Burleigh, The Third Reich: a New History, Pan, 2001). A Hitler Youth marching song (Grunberger, A Social History) illustrates it: We follow not Christ, but Horst Wessel, Away with incense and Holy Water, The Church can go hang for all we care, The Swastika brings salvation on Earth. (Horst Wessel was an early Nazi party Sturmabteilung street-fighter murdered by communists and turned into a martyr by propaganda chief Josef Goebbels.) The SS were particularly anti-Christian, and officers and men were encouraged to leave the Church, although those that refused to renounce their Christian faith were not visibly punished, perhaps because their otherwise faithful adherence to SS codes of behaviour gave the lie to any claim of true Christian affiliation. The SS also brought in its own neo-pagan rituals for marriage ceremonies and baptisms. At this time then, the only alignments between Nazism and Catholicism were the Church’s perceived anti-Semitism and anti-communism, and an abhorrence of abortions by healthy pregnant German women (although Hitler did diverge from the Church once again in 1939 when he authorized the medical extermination of mentally and physically handicapped children). As the war progressed and the Wehrmacht gained control of large parts of the Soviet Union, the question of the suppressed Russian Orthodox Christian sects surfaced. Hitler’s response was to leave them to their own devices “so they can beat each others’ brains out with their crucifixes”. He also had contempt for European Protestants: “as submissive as dogs” (Shirer, The Rise). In the debate about his spiritual leanings, Hitler is also sometimes alleged to have flirted with the occult, although in fact it was far more a passion of Himmler’s. For instance, Hitler loathed astrologers. Others close to him, such as Goering, were also dismissive of Himmler’s obsession with the supernatural and Hitler would no doubt have enjoyed Goebbels' joke, during one clampdown on eccentric religious types, that it was “odd that not a single one [of a group of arrested clairvoyants] predicted he would be arrested”. Goebbels would later try to rally Hitler in his bunker at the end of the war with astrological charts predicting victory but Hitler was still unmoved. At times, Hitler was more pragmatic about religion: “If my mother were alive, she would definitely be a churchgoer, and I wouldn’t want to hinder her. On the contrary, you’ve got to respect the simple faith of the people”. If Hitler was motivated by a supreme being, or convinced that his success was providential, it is hard to see that he was referring to the same God worshipped by Christians. These elements of his orations were dramatic and poetic figures of speech, and the immortality he stood for was of the earthly type, in which heroic legends and monumentalist architecture alone would preserve a great name or event for generations. This analysis stands entirely apart from the actions committed in Hitler’s name which shatter any pretence of Christian leaning. In conclusion, it is reasonable beyond doubt to say that Hitler was not at any stage of his life a Christian. Bibliography Ian Kershaw, Hitler: 1889 – 1936 Hubris, WW Norton, 2000 William Shirer, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, Arrow, 1991 Richard Grunberger, The Twelve Year Reich, Henry Holt, 1979 Richard Grunberger, A Social History of the Third Reich, Penguin, 1991 Michael Burleigh, The Third Reich: a New History, Pan, 2001 George Stein, The Waffen SS: Hitler’s Elite Guard at War 1939 – 1945, University of Cornell, 1984 Gerald Reitlinger, The SS: Alibi of a Nation 1922 – 1945, Arms and Armour Press, 1981 Charles Sydnor, Soldiers of Destruction, Princeton University Press, 1977 Michael Burleigh (ed.), Confronting the Nazi Past, Collins and Brown, 1995 Joachim Fest, Hitler, Thomson Learning, 1994 Alan Bullock, Hitler: A Study in Tyranny, Penguin, 1990 William Sheridan Allen, The Nazi Seizure of Power, Penguin, 1995 The author of this article is an agnostic and a historian of 20th Century German history." That's it for me. You can display ignorance of the matter to anyone but me from now on... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I could only attach about half of this since it was so long.
The Christianity of Hitler revealed in his speeches and proclamations Originated: 27 Feb. 1997 Additions: 03 Jun. 2006 Through subterfuge and concealment, many of today's Church leaders and faithful Christians have camouflaged the Christianity of Adolf Hitler and have attempted to mark him an atheist, a pagan cult worshipper, or a false Christian. However, from the earliest formation of the Nazi party and throughout the period of conquest and growth, Hitler expressed his Christian support to the German citizenry and soldiers. In the 1920s, Hitler's German Workers' Party (pre Nazi term) adopted a "Programme" with twenty-five points (the Nazi version of a constitution). In point twenty-four, their intent clearly demonstrates, from the very beginning, their stand in favor of a "positive" Christianity: 24. We demand liberty for all religious denominations in the State, so far as they are not a danger to it and do not militate against the morality and moral sense of the German race. The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, but does not bind itself in the matter of creed to any particular confession. It combats the Jewish-materialist spirit within and without us, and is convinced that our nation can achieve permanent health from within only on the principle: the common interest before self-interest. Hitler's speeches and proclamations, even more clearly, reveal his faith and feelings toward a Christianized Germany. Nazism presents an embarrassment to Christianity and demonstrates the danger of faith. The following words from Hitler show his disdain for atheism, and pagan cults, and reveals the strength of his Christian feelings: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited. -Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922 [Note, "brood of vipers" appears in Matt. 3:7 & 12:34. John 2:15 depicts Jesus driving out the money changers (adders) from the temple. The word "adders" also appears in Psalms 140:3] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just as the Jew could once incite the mob of Jerusalem against Christ, so today he must succeed in inciting folk who have been duped into madness to attack those who, God's truth! seek to deal with this people in utter honesty and sincerity. -Adolf Hitler, in Munich, 28 July 1922 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In the Bible we find the text, 'That which is neither hot nor cold will I spew out of my mouth.' This utterance of the great Nazarene has kept its profound validity until the present day. -Adolf Hitler, speech in Munich, 10 April 1923 [The Bible quote comes Jesus speaking in Revelation 3:16] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In the life of nations, what in the last resort decides questions is a kind of Judgment Court of God.... Always before god and the world the stronger has the right to carry through what he wills. -Adolf Hitler, speech in Munich, 13 April 1923 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There are three words which many use without a thought which for us are no catch-phrases: Love, Faith, and Hope.... We are fanatical in our love for our people.... We have faith in the rights of our people, the rights which have existed time out of mind. We protest against the view that every other nation should have rights - and we have none. We must learn to make our own this blind faith in the rights of our people, in the necessity of devoting ourselves to the service of these rights; we must make our own the faith that gradually victory must be granted us if only we are fanatical enough. And from this love and from this faith there emerges for us the idea of hope. When others doubt and hesitate for the future of Germany - we have no doubts. We have both the hope and the faith that Germany will and must once more become great and mighty. We have faith that one day Heaven will bring the Germans back into a Reich over which there shall be no Soviet star, no Jewish star of David, but above that Reich there shall be the symbol of German labor - the Swastika. And that will mean that the first of May has truly come. -Adolf Hitler, speech in Munich, 01 May 1923 [Love, Faith, and Hope comes from I Corinthians 13:13 NIV] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- People ask: is there someone fit to be our leader? Our task is not to search for that person. Either God will give him to us or he will not come. Our task is to shape the sword that he will need when he comes. Our task it to provide the leader with a nation which is ready for him when he comes! My fellow Germans, awaken! The new day is dawning! -Adolf Hitler, 04 May 1923 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It matters not whether these weapons of ours are humane: if they gain us our freedom, they are justified before our conscience and before our God. -Adolf Hitler, in Munich, 01 Aug. 1923 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It will at any rate be my supreme task to see to it that in the newly awakened NSDAP, the adherents of both Confessions can live peacefully together side by side in order that they may take their stand in the common fight against the power which is the mortal foe of any true Christianity. -Adolf Hitler, in an article headed "A New Beginning," 26 Feb. 1925 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A few days ago I was in Eisenach and stood on top of the Wartburg, where a great German once translated the Bible. -Adolf Hitler, in Schleiz, Thuringia, 18 Jan. 1927 [The great German Hitler speaks about, of course, describes Martin Luther] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We are a people of different faiths, but we are one. Which faith conquers the other is not the question; rather, the question is whether Christianity stands or falls.... We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity... in fact our movement is Christian. We are filled with a desire for Catholics and Protestants to discover one another in the deep distress of our own people. -Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Passau, 27 October 1928, Bundesarchiv Berlin-Zehlendorf, [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We are determined, as leaders of the nation, to fulfill as a national government the task which has been given to us, swearing fidelity only to God, our conscience, and our Volk.... This the national government will regard its first and foremost duty to restore the unity of spirit and purpose of our Volk. It will preserve and defend the foundations upon which the power of our nation rests. It will take Christianity, as the basis of our collective morality, and the family as the nucleus of our Volk and state, under its firm protection....May God Almighty take our work into his grace, give true form to our will, bless our insight, and endow us with the trust of our Volk. -Adolf Hitler, on 1 Feb. 1933, addressing the German nation as Chancellor for the first time, Volkischer Beobachter, 5 Aug. 1935, [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Except the Lord built the house they labour in vain.... The truth of that text was proved if one looks at the house of which the foundations were laid in 1918 and which since then has been in building.... The world will not help, the people must help itself. Its own strength is the source of life. That strength the Almighty has given us to use; that in it and through it we may wage the battle of our life.... The others in the past years have not had the blessing of the Almighty-- of Him Who in the last resort, whatever man may do, holds in His hands the final decision. Lord God, let us never hesitate or play the coward, let us never forget the duty which we have taken upon us.... We are all proud that through God's powerful aid we have become once more true Germans. -Adolf Hitler, in a speech in March 1933 [Note, "Except the Lord built the house, they labour in vain" comes from Psalms 127:1 ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Government, being resolved to undertake the political and moral purification of our public life, are creating and securing the conditions necessary for a really profound revival of religious life.... The National Government regard the two Christian Confessions as the weightiest factors for the maintenance of our nationality. They will respect the agreements concluded between them and the federal States. Their rights are not to be infringed.... It will be the Government's care to maintain honest co-operation between Church and State; the struggle against materialistic views and for a real national community is just as much in the interest of the German nation as in that of the welfare of our Christian faith. The Government of the Reich, who regard Christianity as the unshakable foundation of the morals and moral code of the nation, attach the greatest value to friendly relations with the Holy See and are endeavouring to develop them. -Adolf Hitler, in his speech to the Reichstag on 23 March 1933 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Catholic Church considered the Jews pestilent for fifteen hundred years, put them in ghettos, etc, because it recognized the Jews for what they were".... I recognize the representatives of this race as pestilent for the state and for the church and perhaps I am thereby doing Christianity a great service by pushing them out of schools and public functions. -Adolf Hitler, 26 April 1933, [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We want honestly to earn the resurrection of our people through our industry, our perseverance, our will. We ask not of the Almighty 'Lord, make us free'!-- we want to be active, to work, to agree together as brothers, to strive in rivalry with one another to bring about the hour when we can come before Him and when we may ask of Him: 'Lord, Thou seest that we have transformed ourselves, the German people is not longer the people of dishonour, of shame, of war within itself, of faintheartedness and little faith: no, Lord, the German people has become strong again in spirit, strong in will, strong in endurance, strong to bear all sacrifices.' 'Lord, we will not let Thee go: bless now our fight for our freedom; the fight we wage for our German people and Fatherland.' -Adolf Hitler, giving prayer in a speech on May Day 1933 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is for us a ground for satisfaction, since we desire that the fight in the religious camps should come to an end... all political action in the parties will be forbidden to priests for all time, happy because we know what is wanted by millions who long to see in the priest only the comforter of their souls and not the representative of their political convictions. -Adolf Hitler, in a speech to the men of the SA. at Dormund, 9 July 1933 on the day after the signing of the Concordat. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- National Socialism has always affirmed that it is determined to take the Christian Churches under the protection of the State.... The decisive factor which can justify the existence alike of Church and State is the maintenance of men's spiritual and bodily health, for it that health were destroyed it would mean the end of the State and also the end of the Church.... It is my sincere hope that thereby for Germany, too, through free agreement there has been produced a final clarification of spheres in the functions of the State and of one Church. -Adolf Hitler, on a wireless on 22 July, the evening before the Evangelical Church Election -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The fact that the Vatican is concluding a treaty with the new Germany means the acknowledgement of the National Socialist state by the Catholic Church. This treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism [Nazism] is hostile to religion is a lie. -Adolf Hitler, 22 July 1933, writing to the Nazi Party (quoted from John Cornwell's "Hitler's Pope" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Among the congregations of the Protestant confessions there has arisen in the "German Christians' a movement that is filled with the determination to do justice to the great tasks of the day and has aimed at a union of the Protestant state churches and confessions. If this question is not really on the way towards a solution, in the judgement of history no false or stupid objections will be able to dispute the fact that this service was rendered by the volkisch movement at a time when, unfortunately, just as in the Roman Church, many pastors and superintendents without reason have opposed the national uprising in the most violent, indeed, often fanatical, way. -Adolf Hitler, in a radio address on 22 July 1933 to the German people after a performance of Wagner's Christian allegory Parsifal in Bayreuth. [from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out. -Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933 [This statement clearly refutes modern Christians who claim Hitler as favoring atheism.] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I believe that Providence would never have allowed us to see the victory of the Movement if it had the intention after all to destroy us at the end. -Adolf Hitler, in a speech to old members of the Party at Munich on 8 Nov. 1933 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The German Church and the People are practically the same body. Therefore there could be no issue between Church and State. The Church, as such, has nothing to do with political affairs. On the other hand, the State has nothing to do with the faith or inner organization of the Church. The election of November 12th would be an expression of church constituency, but not as a Church. -Adolf Hitler, answering C. F. Macfarland about Church & State (in his book, The New Church and the New Germany) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- While we destroyed the Centre Party, we have not only brought thousands of priests back into the Church, but to millions of respectable people we have restored their faith in their religion and in their priests. The union of the Evangelical Church in a single Church for the whole Reich, the Concordat with the Catholic Church, these are but milestones on the road which leads to the establishment of a useful relation and a useful co operation between the Reich and the two Confessions. -Adolf Hitler, in his New Year Message on 1 Jan. 1934 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Imbued with the desire to secure for the German people the great religious, moral, and cultural values rooted in the two Christian Confessions, we have abolished the political organizations but strengthened the religious institutions. -Adolf Hitler, speaking in the Reichstag on 30 Jan. 1934 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It would have been more to the point, more honest and more Christian, in past decades not to support those who intentionally destroyed healthy life than to rebel against those who have no other wish than to avoid disease. Moreover, a policy of laissez faire in this sphere is not only cruelty to the individual guiltless victims but also to the nation as a whole.... If the Churches were to declare themselves ready to take over the treatment and care of those suffering from hereditary diseases, we should be quite ready to refrain from sterilizing them. -Adolf Hitler, in his speech on 30 Jan. 1934 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We have experienced a miracle, something unique, something the like of which there has hardly been in the history of the world. God first allowed our people to be victorious for four and a half years, then He abased us, laid upon us a period of shamelessness, but now after a struggle of fourteen years he has permitted us to bring that period to a close. It is a miracle which has been wrought upon the German people.... It shows us that the Almighty has not deserted our people, that He received it into favour at the moment when it rediscovered itself. And that our people shall never again lose itself, that must be our vow so long as we shall live and so long as the Lord gives us the strength to carry on the fight. -Adolf Hitler, in a speech to the "Old Guard" of the Party at Munich on 19 March, 1934 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The National Socialist State professes its allegiance to positive Christianity. It will be its honest endeavour to protect both the great Christian Confessions in their rights, to secure them from interference with their doctrines (Lehren ), and in their duties to constitute a harmony with the views and the exigencies of the State of to-day. -Adolf Hitler, on 26 June 1934, to Catholic bishops to assure them that he would take action against the new pagan propaganda -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No, it is not we that have deserted Christianity, it is those who came before us who deserted Christianity. We have only carried through a clear division between politics which have to do with terrestrial things, and religion, which must concern itself with the celestial sphere. There has been no interference with the doctrine (Lehre ) of the Confessions or with their religious freedom (Bekenntnisfreiheit ), nor will there be any such interference. On the contrary the State protects religion, though always on the one condition that religion will not be used as a cover for political ends.... National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary it stands on the ground of a real Christianity.... For their interests cannot fail to coincide with ours alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of to-day, in our fight against a Bolshevist culture, against atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for a consciousness of a community in our national life... These are not anti-Christian, these are Christian principles! And I believe that if we should fail to follow these principles then we should to be able to point to our successes, for the result of our political battle is surely not unblest by God. -Adolf Hitler, in his speech at Koblenz, to the Germans of the Saar, 26 Aug. 1934 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So far as the Evangelical Confessions are concerned we are determined to put an end to existing divisions, which are concerned only with the forms of organization, and to create a single Evangelical Church for the whole Reich.... And we know that were the great German reformer [Martin Luther] with us to-day he would rejoice to be freed from the necessity of his own time and, like Ulrich von Hutten, his last prayer would be not for the Churches of the separate States: it would be of Germany that he would think and of the Evangelical Church of Germany. -Adolf Hitler, in his Proclamation at the Parteitag at Nuremberg on 5 Sept. 1934 [Note, Martin Luther provided Germany with the seeds of violent antisemitism. Learn about Martin Luther's dirty little book. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So we have come together on this day to prove symbolically that we are more than a collection of individuals striving one against another, that none of us is too proud, none of us too high, none is too rich, and none too poor, to stand together before the face of the Lord and of the world in this indissoluble, sworn community. And this united nation, we have need of it. -Adolf Hitler, in Berlin, 01 May 1935 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What we are we have become not against, but with, the will of Providence. And so long as we are true and honourable and of good courage in fight, so long as we believe in our great work and do not capitulate, we shall continue to enjoy in the future the blessing of Providence. -Adolf Hitler, at Rosenheim in Bavaria, 11 Aug. 1935 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Only so you can appeal to your God and pray Him to support and bless your courage, your work, your perseverance, your strength, your resolution, and with all these your claim on life. -Adolf Hitler, in a speech at Frankfurt on 16 March 1936 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In this world him who does not abandon himself the Almighty will not desert. Him who helps himself will the Almighty always also help; He will show him the way by which he can gain his rights, his freedom, and therefore his future. -Adolf Hitler, in a speech at Hamburg on 20 March 1936 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Providence has caused me to be Catholic, and I know therefore how to handle this Church. -Adolf Hitler, reportedly to have said in Berlin in 1936 on the enmity of the Catholic Church to National Socialism -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I believe in Providence and I believe Providence to be just. Therefore I believe that Providence always rewards the strong, the industrious, and the upright. -Adolf Hitler, in a speech to National Socialist women at the Nuremberg Parteitag of 1936 [11 Sept. 1936] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I say that they can be solved; there is no problem that cannot be, but faith is necessary. Think of the faith I had to have eighteen years ago, a single man on a lonely path. Yet I have come to leadership of the German people.... Life is hard for many, but it is hardest if you are unhappy and have no faith. Have faith. Nothing can make me change my own belief. -Adolf Hitler, in Nuremberg, 12 Sept. 1936 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
Krimsa
on
Sun 01/25/09 06:16 AM
|
|
The author of this article is an agnostic and a historian of 20th Century German history. Is that a fact? You wouldnt mind giving me the URL for his website then? Nevermind I found it. Taken from this so called "Agnostic Historian" website. If you have enjoyed Bede's Library, why not read chapter one of my new book God's Philosophers: How the Medieval World Laid the Foundations of Modern Science Hmm.  |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
And interesting how my information is almost all quotes attributed to Adolph Hitler. Your guy, not so much.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Once again, this has become an exercise in futility. There's no reasoning with a closed mind. Some people are just determined to hold on to their preposterous prejudices, no matter how offensive... Some times you have to wipe the dust off your feet Aqua. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yeah I notice that sentiment being expressed whenever someone has no rebuttal.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
It was the Darwinistic theory that motivated Hitler.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
Krimsa
on
Sun 01/25/09 07:05 AM
|
|
It was the Darwinistic theory that motivated Hitler. This has been posted before but since you people never read anything.... Myth 3: Hitler got his ideas of Aryan superiority and Jewish hatred from Darwinian evolution Hitler showed no knowledge of Darwinian evolution or natural selection. Nowhere in Mein Kampf does he mention Darwin, natural-selection or even the word "evolution" (in the context of natural selection). As for Aryan superiority and his Jewish hatred, Hitler clearly describes in Mein Kampf how he slowly began to change his mind about the Jews from the influence of the anti-Semitic movement of the Christian Social Party. His views with regard to anti-Semitism he said, "succumbed to the passage of time, and this was my greatest transformation of all." (read volume 1, chapter 2). Nowhere does he explain his anti-Jewish beliefs in Darwinian terms. In his private notes, where he describes the Bible as a "Monumental History of Mankind," Hitler outlines his views of the Aryan and the Jew, all in the context of Bible reasoning, never in the context of Darwinian natural selection. Moreover, Hitler viewed progeny, not in regards to evolution but in terms of blood lines (a Biblical view). He peppered his writings and speeches with "blood" words. Examples in Mein Kampf include: "One blood demands one Reich." "Bavarian by blood, technically Austrian, lived my parents..." ...the German in Austria had really been of the best blood..." "...the weakness of leadership will not cause a hibernation of the state, but an awakening of all the individual instincts which are present in the blood..." Clearly, Hitler had no scientific sophistication or an understanding of Darwin's theory of evolution and his "blood-line" explanation of human "progress" reveals a Biblical view, not a Darwinian view. He did, however, at times express ideas, not from Darwin, but rather from Herbert Spencer's concept of Social Darwinism, which has little to do with natural selection and served as an adjunct to his already established religious views. Spencer's Social Darwinism tried to connect Darwin's biological theory with the field of social relations. The result of Social Darwinism resulted in many eugenics programs that began in America and adopted by the Nazis. [Note that Darwin never expressed the idea that natural selection could extend from biological systems to social systems.] Hitler best sums up his belief of Aryan superiority and his stand against the Jews with his declaration in Mein Kampf: "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The U of H study was one that was conducted over a ten year period of time and examined all of the writings and correspondence of the 150 some odd "Founding Fathers" - essentially those who's work was on one or all of The Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Articles of Confederation - as well as those who served in the original congress and Supreme Court (Most of whom were part of the previous aformentioned commitees.) Statistics were then compiled over who or what was most quoted or referenced in Terms of the creating of the Documents and idea's that formed this country. The idea of forming a Republic was actually not a new idea - it had already been outlined by John Locke - who was one of the more frequently referenced influences of the Founding Father's. As would be expected - the bible was quoted more often than any other individual or Document, since about 90 per cent of the Founding Fathers were members of Orthadox Christian churches, and many were themselves in the Clergy. Hardly a surprise since the original purpose of coming to this country was for the purpose of freely pursuing their Christain beliefs without being influenced by the Church of England - which despite this effort, was still the largest church in the New Colony. Nor surpsing - again, since it was a British Colony. The Church of England was much too powereful back in those days to not have established itself in the New World. Anyway... I find it surprising that at the time of the Founding Fathers, Christianity would not have been extremely influential in the founding of this country. I have spent my entire life in New England - and churches outnumber any other type of establishment - by far. The major colleges established in those days were Divinity Schools! The school primers were taken directly from the bible. Try as one might - wish as one may, attempting to erase the Christian influence on the founding of this country is a sad lesson in ignorance and ignoring the facts. As you stipulate, but here's where I think it bogs down-- what's the difference between 'influence' and actual execution? Let's say I'm designing an adaptive battery charger for the military, and make use of the Laplace Transform in doing the engineering math. That doesn't make either me or my product French. Where do 'influence' and 'Christian principles' converge to make our representative democracy a 'Christian nation'? Said another way, if could be proven beyond all debate that, say, 80% of what went into the Constitution was of 'Christian principle', and 20 percent of principles derived from Freethought, don't Christians have the obligation to acknowledge said contributions? See, when they annex all the credit and give it to He who says I Am and call this a Christian nation, it causes the type of friction that was the irritant to spur people to take long ocean voyages to strange and dangerous lands to escape such a hegemony. How different is Pat Robertson to Freethinkers from Oliver Cromwell to Catholics? Why oh why can't we just say of the American way of government and culture that "It is what it is" and let it be a work in perpetual progress? -Kerry O. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think the only reason I become annoyed with it is Christians CONSTANTLY espouse this myth that "This nation was built on Christian principles" and that is a load of hogwash. They have no evidence to support or substantiate such claims yet they pass on this fallacy from generation to generation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think the only reason I become annoyed with it is Christians CONSTANTLY espouse this myth that "This nation was built on Christian principles" and that is a load of hogwash. They have no evidence to support or substantiate such claims yet they pass on this fallacy from generation to generation. This nation was built on Christian principles...I agree...  ...
|
|
|
|
|
