Jesus was an Arab and a Socialist.

http://tenpercent.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/b_che.jpg

Merry Christmas, Che Christ!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn7exBrCiUI&feature=related

Well I was annoyed on both counts if you must know. There was some ridiculous and very naive statements made that clearly demonstrated a lack of understanding of the historical significance of the holiday. It was of course taken from the Pagans, adsorbed and adapted by the Christians. That is unimportant. What is important is that everyone has a right not to have a certain religious agenda drilled into them by bombastic display advertising.

Christmas was not in fact originally celebrated in the US. American Indians are the native, indigenous people of this land and they were not Christians until that concept was brutally forced upon them. If someone wants to celebrate Christmas, let them do it. Just dont cram that down another person's throat and the least you can be expected to do is not gripe about a festive display in a public thoroughfare that says "Happy Holidays."

Maybe its just me but ive seen this type of thread hit the pavement almost every year since JSH first started (or at least since i first joined JSH ages ago) and it always ends in the same fight.

If you dont like "Christmas" then don't use it. If you dont like "Happy Holidays" then ignore it. just don't gripe at others for wishing you to have a happy this or marry that.

True that Christmas was not in fact born and bread in America but it has in fact been celebrated for over 4000 years. Way before Christ was even born in fact. Many of these traditions began with the Mesopotamian celebration of New Years. And similar traditions were celebrated by many different cultures in fact. And was incorporated into America once it begin to be populated. Around that time is when the meaning was more of less changed to the way the Christians in fact believed instead of how the Romans or Pagans actually celebrated this time of year.


And in fact in the 1600's Christmas was actually outlawed in England and in parts of the English colonies in America. The old customs of feasting and decorating, however, soon reappeared and blended with the more Christian aspects of the celebration.

Yes I will admit that it is more likely for Christians to celebrate Christmas then any other religion. But it is not excluded to Christians only.

And in fact the meaning of Christmas as far as the Christians go is not what most celebrate today. For most Christmas is about giving, sharing being with family and friends and that is when Santa Claus comes to visit all the children.

Of course this is not what the Christians meant this Holiday to be about at all but in reality it is a time for all to Celebrate regardless of what religion one is. It should be a time that all come together as it was meant to be in the beginning before religion took it over.

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Normally I stay away from these types of threads but I wanted to say...MERRY CHRISTMAS.
And to all of you who celebrate other holidays...HAPPY HOLIDAYS.

Isnt that what I have been saying! It was a Pagan holiday initially that was absorbed by the Christians. Many cultures reside in the US and clearly not all of them celebrate "Christmas" which would be the Christian interpretation of the holiday solely.

That is why I feel "Happy Holidays" is a more appropriate statment to make at this time of the year. Maybe we aren't disagreeing but since you didnt seem to take that position initially and came across as if you were in support of the OP, then you were not very clear.

Just a quick question before I go:

How is christmas an american holiday, when you obviously have a separation of church and goverment? Doesn't that imply that the United States is in fact indifferent towards religion?

PBug: Separation of church and state, in the US, is largely a myth. Every president to date has been Christian at least. Most politicians are also Christian. Many decisions are heavily influenced by Christianity, as our some of our holidays.

For this reason, I wouldn't say the separation of church and state is obvious at all. In fact, separation of church and state is more the exception than the rule, and the rule is that we are by and large a Christian state.

Here's a couple more examples of issues where religion has played a main role:

Stem-cell research
Abortion laws
Gay rights
The state of Israel and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
...list goes on.

Whenever a government is democratic or has special interest groups, and when the country's people are heavily influenced by religion, it's probable that "separation of church and state" is just not going to happen.

Well in all fairness, our nation's Founding Fathers were indeed Deists (Thomas Jefferson and 6 others that I can name off hand) and not Christians, yet over the centuries the Church has steadily worked on eroding that initial proclamation of establishing a "wall of separation" between church and state so I would agree with the rest of your statement absolutely. Its a constant battle.

Notquite check this out as an example if you have never seen it before. This is an indication of this country's Deist roots. This is the Treaty with Tripoli. authored by American diplomat Joel Barlow in 1796, the following treaty was sent to the floor of the Senate, June 7, 1797, where it was read aloud in its entirety and unanimously approved. John Adams, having seen the treaty, signed it and proudly proclaimed it to the Nation.

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

thanks for the back up on that....all to often people read what they want, and run with it..

You can get back on topic here any day now pal.

I remember a thing called "door warriors"......meaning that a person would talk trash, as if they were something to be feared.....but noone ever saw them out from behind the closed door, therefore the person felt safe, because they were sure the door would not open, thus, keeping them from harm.

I laugh when I read alot of threads, cause it seems that this is the case with alot of people on these sites.....internet warriors......LOL

HE was JEWISH......Mohammad is Arab

well....Miss Lady....that was quite profound and I think it has made e change my way of thinking.....not about the OP.......just thinking about you....LOL

I have made not one comment on this thread I can not back up with credible historical evidence. Can you say the same? I also would say everything I have stated on this thread directly to your face and not even bat an eyelash.

thank you very much...

seems alot of people get on here just to run their mouth and start sh*t most likely....because they have nothing better to do with their life?

i think the OP is simply stating that christmas is pretty much a tradition to the majority of americans and has been celebrated for a few years now and because of a few who don't like the word christmas stores are just saying to hell with it we'll just say and put up happy holidays,now i'm just waiting for the chinese americans to b!tch and complain to change our new years in america to theirs.traditions are just collapsing more and more and unless its really morally wrong why change it?