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| Topic: If you think intelligent design should be taught in schools. | |
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The Catholic church put him under house arrest when he was around 70 yrs. old. He died of natural causes during that time. You know that because it was recorded by historians of his time. The Bible is largely historical documents made by the Israelite people. If one is willing to question one historical document, then one must question ALL historical documents on the same grounds to be intellectually consistent. That is the point Eljay is making. Elhay said, "Hitler has been documented on film - Galileo was not. At least use an alagogy that applies." Like you said, Galileo's life was recorded by historians of his time. |
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The Catholic church put him under house arrest when he was around 70 yrs. old. He died of natural causes during that time. You know that because it was recorded by historians of his time. The Bible is largely historical documents made by the Israelite people. If one is willing to question one historical document, then one must question ALL historical documents on the same grounds to be intellectually consistent. That is the point Eljay is making. Elhay said, "Hitler has been documented on film - Galileo was not. At least use an alagogy that applies." Like you said, Galileo's life was recorded by historians of his time. Yes Winx - that was my point. You see the argument that started this thread was that there is no reliable source to support Creationism, so it shouldn't be taught in school - Yet we should accept Evolution as reliable? Why is that. The argument is to rely on the testimony of scientists and their eyewitness account. What makes that account any more reliable than those who walked with Jesus and recorded what he did and said? So - Evolutionists seek to deny the right of children in our school systems to be taught BOTH "theories", and determine for themselves what is true through learning how to research both theories. They scream and yell "Intollerant", "bias", etc - yet they are the one's refusing to allow balance in what is taught in the schools. It is their fear which is causing the statitistics on ignorance to steadily climb. |
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Edited by
JasmineInglewood
on
Sat 12/06/08 11:43 AM
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umm...
the information in historical texts are always being verified by successive independent historians who themselves go out and find primary and secondary evidence to corroborate what those before him have concluded to be true. how many historians have corroborated the story of creation?? have you just pulled the notion that the bible is a historical text out of your ass?? The bible is as much a historical text as The Adventures of Tom Sawyer.  sometimes folks, when someone ceases to argue with you its not because you've won. sometimes its because people just leave banging their head against the wall in frustration to more worthwhile pursuits while you sit congratulating yourself over how smart you are for disproving evolution because a catdog has never been discovered. |
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hahaha I'm laughing at the intolerance and bias from BOTH sides
"MY way is the only way and we won't recognize any others" |
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umm... the information in historical texts are always being verified by successive independent historians who themselves go out and find primary and secondary evidence to corroborate what those before him have concluded to be true. how many historians have corroborated the story of creation?? have you just pulled the notion that the bible is a historical text out of your ass?? The bible is as much a historical text as The Adventures of Tom Sawyer. sometimes folks, when someone ceases to argue with you its not because you've won. sometimes its because people just leave banging their head against the wall in frustration to more worthwhile pursuits while you sit congratulating yourself over how smart you are for disproving evolution because a catdog has never been discovered. That is a flat out mistruth. I would say it was a lie, but I'm sure you don't know any better. There is a vast amount of historical information in the Bible which has been confirmed. From who was governor of a country at a particular time to the existence of various people. They have even confirmed that the name "Goliath" was common in Palestine. If you really are agnostic, then why not show it and actually study BOTH sides? |
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those who are the wisest among you admit, ok, religion is not logical and can never be argued in the logical realm, but i make the personal choice to believe it anyway. Thats cool. Make the personal choice to believe it anyway for your own personal sanity or because you need it as a crutch, while not pushing it on others who choose to live on the logical realm of life. That is all good.
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those who are the wisest among you admit, ok, religion is not logical and can never be argued in the logical realm, but i make the personal choice to believe it anyway. Thats cool. Make the personal choice to believe it anyway for your own personal sanity or because you need it as a crutch, while not pushing it on others who choose to live on the logical realm of life. That is all good. It's disingenuous to say "to believe it anyway for your own personal sanity or because you need it as a crutch" and offer a flower. You show absolutely no desire to be polite or fair with those whom you discuss religion. Abra and Krimsa are terrible examples of how one should treat others, but you seem determined to be their disciple. My mentor teaches that love is the way, I don't always follow his teachings, but when I do, I spread peace. When you follow your mentors teaching, you spread strife. I'm sure it makes you feel intellectually superior to mock and insult people, but your debating style is that of a child or fool. |
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Edited by
JasmineInglewood
on
Sat 12/06/08 01:12 PM
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those who are the wisest among you admit, ok, religion is not logical and can never be argued in the logical realm, but i make the personal choice to believe it anyway. Thats cool. Make the personal choice to believe it anyway for your own personal sanity or because you need it as a crutch, while not pushing it on others who choose to live on the logical realm of life. That is all good. It's disingenuous to say "to believe it anyway for your own personal sanity or because you need it as a crutch" and offer a flower. You show absolutely no desire to be polite or fair with those whom you discuss religion. Abra and Krimsa are terrible examples of how one should treat others, but you seem determined to be their disciple. My mentor teaches that love is the way, I don't always follow his teachings, but when I do, I spread peace. When you follow your mentors teaching, you spread strife. I'm sure it makes you feel intellectually superior to mock and insult people, but your debating style is that of a child or fool. i love how unhypocritical you are spidey keep it up edit* also, this co-dependent mentality you accuse me of, where i need to be a disciple of somebody to form an independent thought of my own, is characteristic of religious folk not me. I follow no one. i have disagreed with abra and krisma on many occasions. i admit i have always been known to be sarcastic on occasion... my humble apologies  i now see that the repeated catdog argument against evolution deserves my deepest respect |
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The Adventures of Tom Sawyer, as someone has pointed out earlier in this thread, contains historical fact. I suppose you take everything in it to be the gospel truth then, as that would naturally follow the logic of your argument.
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 My twelve year old just got home from school. I asked her how we we were made. she said our mommys and daddys. i said no silly how did the human race get started? she said adam and eve. I then asked her who put adam and eve here? and she said God. I told her never to forget that. This SHOULD be reinforced in schools. BUT since its not, I can reinforce it in my home. right, and you can reinforce that the world is flat and that the best way to get though life is to not think and just live by fear. She sould be fine, the world needs more ditch diggers anyway. Christians have never accepted that the earth is flat. Those Christians in the past who pushed that belief were ex-communicated. One of the first Christians to be ex-communicated was excommunicated for teaching that the earth was flat. Humans have known for 2400 years that the earth was not flat. The claim that people believed in a flat earth during the middle ages is used to make Christians look stupid. But it works the other way, because what is exposed is that you don't know an obvious historical fact. well Galileo and copernicus will be glad to here that. Because when Galileo spent the last yrs. of his life locked up by the christian church because of his ideas on the universe didnt jive with the bible he will be glad to know that it didnt realy happen. How do you know Galileo spent the last years of his life locked up by the Christian church? Can you provide evidence of this as fact? from wikipedia: Galileo's championing of Copernicanism was controversial within his lifetime. The geocentric view had been dominant since the time of Aristotle, and the controversy engendered by Galileo's presentation of heliocentrism as proven fact resulted in the Catholic Church's prohibiting its advocacy as empirically proven fact, because it was not empirically proven at the time and was contrary to the literal meaning of Scripture. Galileo was eventually forced to recant his heliocentrism and spent the last years of his life under house arrest on orders of the Roman Inquisition. I see - so your authority is winkipedia. And are you assuming that the author of this information was there? Again I ask - give me a "reliable" source. Not someone who read a book by someone who read a book about someone who read a book. You tell me that the bible is a bunch of stories - and you rely on Wink-a-whatever for your facts. Please. ok i never realy ever say this about anyone but you are an idiot. it is no wonder why you do not understand evolution, you can't even grasp basic history. your agrument is stupid. it's like saying how do you know hitler was a real person, were you there? did you know him? realy dude read a book sometime. besides the bible. you probably have'nt read that either. i'm not going to do all your research for you, you may actually have to look something up yourself. I know it means reading and possibly learning but try it out just once you may like it, who knows. To quote one of my favolrite songs... "I may be an idiot - but indeed I am no fool" I'm sure you were attempting to make a point here but I find it difficult dumbing down to your level to find it. I did not say that the point you made was incorrect - I asked you how you were able to verify it. You did understand that didn't you? Spider got it right away. What was your problem? I don't need you to do any research for me - I suggest you do it for yourself. Pick up a book on logic and dicover what a "false premise is". Hitler has been documented on film - Galileo was not. At least use an alagogy that applies. Having read your posts - I've forgotten more about the bible than you've demonstrated you know. How many times have you read it? Think because you took a college course or two that you've got it over on everyone? Wake up. Back your statements up with some facts. Show some understanding here. Not everyone is convinced that "Evolution as an origin of the Species" is fact - since there are no facts that support it without accepting unprovable postulates and premises that can't be supported. Demonstate if you will how the earth being billions of years old can be supported through science without having to accept "uniformalism" as fact, which is unprovable. But you knew that right? Because you've done the research like I have. Or... Have you? I know very little about you - so I won't make the mistake of saying that you haven't read the bible dozens of times like I have - or read three books a week, or have two degree's, have taught in High School and college, because I know you wouldn't make idiot statements like that about me since you know nothing about me. And if you ever get around it - answer me how it is you know that the testimonies you read about Galileo on Winkapedia are true, and the testimonies about Jesus in the bible are fairy tales. I'm having a difficult time trying to figure out how you reason things out. you have shown everyone the light thank you. Galileo was not ordered by the church under arrest because it is not on film. how could everyone have been so stupid. What I don't understand is why you are not teaching people like Hawkins and Cox. You are truly the most enightend person to ever wlak this planet that your upright walking god poofed here. again thank you for showing us that if it is not on film then it did not happen. |
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The Catholic church put him under house arrest when he was around 70 yrs. old. He died of natural causes during that time. You know that because it was recorded by historians of his time. The Bible is largely historical documents made by the Israelite people. If one is willing to question one historical document, then one must question ALL historical documents on the same grounds to be intellectually consistent. That is the point Eljay is making. Elhay said, "Hitler has been documented on film - Galileo was not. At least use an alagogy that applies." Like you said, Galileo's life was recorded by historians of his time. Yes Winx - that was my point. You see the argument that started this thread was that there is no reliable source to support Creationism, so it shouldn't be taught in school - Yet we should accept Evolution as reliable? Why is that. The argument is to rely on the testimony of scientists and their eyewitness account. What makes that account any more reliable than those who walked with Jesus and recorded what he did and said? So - Evolutionists seek to deny the right of children in our school systems to be taught BOTH "theories", and determine for themselves what is true through learning how to research both theories. They scream and yell "Intollerant", "bias", etc - yet they are the one's refusing to allow balance in what is taught in the schools. It is their fear which is causing the statitistics on ignorance to steadily climb. Fossils. now show me some jesus bones and you have an argument until then you have one book. |
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This idea that intelligent design is some kind of scientific theory is a great big joke.
Theories needs to have power, what can this theory do to help explain nature as we see it now? Evolution has explained many things, evolution is the unifying theory of biology. Independent fields of science such as taxonomy, radio dating, ice cores samples, and tree ring dating have all matched up with the predictions of evolution and that isn't even mentioning the one field of research that hits one out of the park for evolution, that is genetics. Without genetics many fields of medicine would be dead ends now, literally. The human race is at a cross roads, and only through nano tech and genetics will our medical knowledge keep up with the demands of life in the 21st century. What does ID do? I have not seen anything yet, other then look at something complex and presuppose it cannot be worked out so it must be made by an unfathomable creator. Jeremy. |
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If ID is just a theory..why hasnt it been disproved.
 if evolution is completly factual and answers all the questions...why is it still considered a theory??
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If ID is just a theory..why hasnt it been disproved. if evolution is completly factual and answers all the questions...why is it still considered a theory?? First ID is not a theory. It's an idea. |
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Edited by
Winx
on
Sat 12/06/08 04:20 PM
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umm... the information in historical texts are always being verified by successive independent historians who themselves go out and find primary and secondary evidence to corroborate what those before him have concluded to be true. how many historians have corroborated the story of creation?? have you just pulled the notion that the bible is a historical text out of your ass?? The bible is as much a historical text as The Adventures of Tom Sawyer. sometimes folks, when someone ceases to argue with you its not because you've won. sometimes its because people just leave banging their head against the wall in frustration to more worthwhile pursuits while you sit congratulating yourself over how smart you are for disproving evolution because a catdog has never been discovered. "The bible is as much a historical text as The Adventures of Tom Sawyer." That's not true. There is historical information in the Bible which has been confirmed. There is also a small amount of evidence surrounding ID. Edit: Pertaining to another post. What historical evidence has been found in Tom Sawyer? |
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I'm not going to jump in on this thread with opinion. I just wanted to point out to everyone that the Bible is a book and yes it does have some historical context.
Just like The Wars by Timothy Findley and Night by Elie Wiesel. Both are BOOKS that have historical context. The Bible could still be stories with actual historical facts. It doesn't mean that it wasn't written by people with a certian bias or two about what they "believed" to be correct. Regardless none of these books are actual texts used in history classes. At least they weren't in mine, but I'm Canadian and I'm sure there are things that are incorrect in all sorts of history books regardless of the country you grow up in- OR any book for that matter. Actual evidence that would support a theory would be like throwing something into the air and having it fall down (unless this thing is lighter then air) it WILL not probably fall down, IT WILL FALL DOWN. IT HAS TO. That said. I haven't gotten any proof of actual evidence to support one "idea" or another. |
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If ID is just a theory..why hasnt it been disproved. if evolution is completly factual and answers all the questions...why is it still considered a theory?? First ID is not a theory. It's an idea. a theory develops from an idea the origin of life.. we either were created.. or we arose spontaneously from something |
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If ID is just a theory..why hasnt it been disproved. if evolution is completly factual and answers all the questions...why is it still considered a theory?? First ID is not a theory. It's an idea. a theory develops from an idea the origin of life.. we either were created.. or we arose spontaneously from something right and ID has not got past the idea faze. it is not a theory. |
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idk. whover designed the human body was pretty intelligent.
my "idea" is life (and the universe) is too complex to consider that it was not created by some masterful wonderful intelligent being. so..How, seamonster, do you think we got here? fossils and anylazing rock stuff dont explain anything to me. God worked in his own timezone and fossils just prove life exists and was complex way long ago. im talking about the first organic life. where do you think it came from?? how do you think it resulted?? and why shouldn't both of these "ideas" get valid and equal research. from students. |
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Hey seamonster, good day to ya. The theory I that am leaning toward is that all theory's are theory's. nothing more, nothing less, even this. It is a thing of faith. Maybe we should just teach the basics of theory and be done with it in public schools period....!
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