I would think that in order to make a statement like this - that one would have to have an idea what Christian Idealogy is.

Point?

This really makes me sick how Hitler is even apart of this conversation. Its despicable really. This is about teaching ID as science in the classroom . . . thats it people!

Yet this statement demonstrates a severely limited knowledge of scripture. Do tell - what does one have to do to be a Christianaccording to you?



Do you really think you know more about the bible than I think you do? You actually know less. I would have given you more credit than you've demonstrated.



How do we get vanilla - explain this using evolution.



No - you are misrepresenting me. Evolution should not be taught in a science class. But if you insist it must, then I.D. should be taught as well - for the same reasoning. Both are faith based world views. No science in either one.



I've gone over this. I present no argument on why I.D. should be taught i a science class. I'm still waiting on scientifically verifyable evidence why Evolution should be. (And don't give me the argument that evolution is obvious - it is the question of origins that is unverifyable, there's never been a question about evolution within species)

You do not demonstrate an understanding of Christian Ideaology. If so - expound.

After 13 pages you expect a thread to be on topic? Where have you been? Every thread runs amok.

You do not demonstrate an understanding of Adolph Hitler and his beliefs and ideology in the upcoming years prior to WW2 in Germany. If you do, please elaborate. I've provided substantial evidence thus far.

So your point is that it doesn't matter if Hitler was a Catholic when he committed his atrocities, you will call him a Catholic anyways? That's a very enlightening window into your thinking processes.

No - you're reading too much into the discussion. The question really is not what the basis for Hitlers "final solution" was - but whether or not it was justified by his christian world view - or his Dawinian world view (survival of the fitest, etc). Hitler was a disciple of Darwin, not Jesus.

That is what the point is.

Spider he was a Catholic at the time he was committing the mass murder of the Jews (which he considered the enemy of Christianity.) Did you not read that post I made with his speech ??

Hitler's anti-Semitism grew out of his Christian education. Christian Austria and Germany in his time took for granted the belief that Jews held an inferior status to Aryan Christians. Jewish hatred did not spring from Hitler, it came from the preaching of Catholic priests and Protestant ministers throughout Germany for hundreds of years. The Protestant leader, Martin Luther, himself, held a livid hatred for Jews and their Jewish religion. In his book, "On the Jews and their Lies," Luther set the standard for Jewish hatred in Protestant Germany up until World War II. Hitler expressed a great admiration for Martin Luther.

Hitler did not have to parade his belief in God, as so many American Christians do now. Nor did he have to justify his Godly belief against an Atheist movement. He took his beliefs for granted just as most Germans did at that time. His thrust aimed at politics, not religion. But through his political and religious reasoning he established in 1933, a German Reich Christian Church, uniting the Protestant churches to instill faith in a national German Christianity.

Future generations should remember that Adolph Hitler could not have come into power without the support of the Protestant and Catholic churches and the German Christian populace.

The following quotes provides some of Hitler's expressions of his belief in religion, faith, fanaticism, Providence, and even a few of his paraphrasing of the Bible. It by no means represents the totality of Hitler's concerns. To realize the full context of these quotes, I implore the reader to study Mein Kampf.

The purpose of this text intends to dispute the claims made by Christians that Hitler "was an atheist," or "anti-religious," and to reveal the dangers of belief-systems. This text in no way attempts to give endorsement to anti-Semitism.

So you are what you say in public? Because incase you didn't notice, I posted quite a few quotes of Hitler reviling Christianity. Sorry, but Christianity was a cloak he used to make himself appear legitimate. THAT is what history shows.

Their sword will become our plow, and from the tears of war the daily bread of future generations will grow.

-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

Note: "Their sword will become our plow" appears to paraphrase Micah 4:3 about beating swords into ploughshares, but his tears of war more resembles Joel 3:9-10 "Beat your plowshares into swords."



I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.

-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)



I thank Heaven that a portion of the memories of those days still remains with me. Woods and meadows were the battlefields on which the 'conflicts' which exist everywhere in life were decided.

-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)



Only a handful of Germans in the Reich had the slightest conception of the eternal and merciless struggle for the German language, German schools, and a German way of life. Only today, when the same deplorable misery is forced on many millions of Germans from the Reich, who under foreign rule dream of their common fatherland and strive, amid their longing, at least to preserve their holy right to their mother tongue, do wider circles understand what it means to be forced to fight for one's nationality.

-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

First thing you have said we are in complete agreement with.

Look I don't think anyone is less of a person for not accepting evolution, or even caring about it at all one way or the other. 99.9% of people will never need to know or will it even effect there lives. So if I have offended anyone, then I apologize, its not my intention.

But real research is being done that has effected and in some cases saved the lives of people because of the knowledge we have gained via the study of evolution.

I am nearing final exams and have been ultra busy I have many threads I want to start and even youtube video's on my list to make, but for the next few weeks I really wont have time to give in depth explanations or really get into the meat and potatoes of complex topics like this one.

Vanilla: I will take this as something you think is irreducible complex, now if you can just tell me why vanilla and not literally anything else that may narrow down any research I have to do . . .


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So I have made notes on my to do list and will get back to you will a new topic in the science forum on why evolution is fact.

If you can be more specific with your vanilla example I may even be able in the next few days to post a response to that one.

Jeremy said:



This is a true statement and it applies to you as a human regardless of belief system. The study of Evolutionary Biology touches on the other sciences in many respects. Ecology, Genome Sciences, modern medicine. Students need at least a basic understanding of this theory because these disciplines are interrelated. .

Mein Kampf was written BEFORE WWII.

Should we go by what he said publicly before the WWII or privately during WWII?

The answer should be obvious. Have a nice night.

So let me just get this straight. You dont want to accept that Hitler was a Christian or that his Christian beliefs had any effect on his agenda to exterminate the Jews? Get serious. You are living in a fantasy. Im not playing foolish timing games with you.

Show me realistic evidence to support that he was not a Christian and that his beliefs did not further his intended goal nor that he was endorsed by both the Catholic and Protestant church and we will talk.

Krimsa,

Are you saying that when you offer quotes they are "realistic evidence", but when I also offer quotes from Hitler, it is some how invalid? Your bias is showing...

What page were your quotes on? Mine were taken from Mein Kampf which was dictated by Hitler himself. I also had an excerpt from one of his speeches.