This country might have more Christians living in it now but thats only because Catholicism is the largest practiced organized religion today. This country was NOT founded on any kind of "Christian values or principles." Thats a load of crap espoused by the Christian right. Our Founding Fathers were Deists and did all they could to suppress that agenda when they were ratifying the Constitution.

They would role over in their graves if they thought that the crazy Fundamentalist sects were gaining power in this country.

Chances are we would have never gone to revolution with England if we simply agreed with their concept of "Divine Authoritarian Rule" but we were sick of being bent over by them and their godly appointed monarchy. .

They aren't gaining power though. They are actually losing power. They are screaming louder is all.

Church attendance is way down.

TV evangelism is desperate to start a 'new revival' in the hopes of inducting new members. But that's like the last sigh of a dying horse.

TV evangelism will be a mere fad that people will flock to momentarily, but won't stick to in the long term and won't fund consistently.

Dogmatic religions truly are on their way out. They have been on their way out for the past few centuries. The church truly has no political power anymore at all. I mean compare that with only a few hundred years ago when the Church was the ruling power in many places. The church could actually order executions and DID!

In todays world the church has basically no political power at all. The only power it has left is the power of pursuasion, but Protestants are famous for protesting. And they even protest against their own leaders.

That's how so many denominations came to be in the first place. And they continue to split up to this very day.

It's the nature of the Biblical religion to divide people, not to bring them together.

Just look at it from the big picture.

It started out as Judasim, then broke off into Catholicism, and then into Islam. And then Catholism fell apart into Protestantism. And then Protestantism fell apart into a myriad of denomination, many of which vehemently disagree with each other on major issues.

Historically the biblical-based religions are clearly divisive religions. They don't bring people together they rip people apart.

It's clearly a negative religion in so many ways. It's very premises are negative. It claims that mankind is at odds with God. Even God is at odds with his own fallen angels.

It's a horrifically devisive religion from the word go.

There's nothing positive about it at all. Even the God is a loser. By the Bible's on proclamation the biblical God loses the vast majority of souls he creates to the fallen angel that he's at odds with.

It's a lose/lose religion.

Why people beat this dead horse is beyond me.

Catholics are leaving The Church in large numbers. Which reminds me....I think I'll go to Mass tonight. I wonder if I'm the only witch who goes to Mass.

Maybe the vast majority of Catholics are actually witches and nobody knows it.

They are. All of them are, even the priests. The Catholics are the least removed of all the denominations of Christianity. Thats why all the other intolerant factions dislike them. Too much incense and sacrament. Its very Pagan.

This is very true. It was my studying Catholicism that led me to Paganism and the day to day practices of Catholicism are very Pagan.

The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is a very Pagan ritual involving blood sacrifice and adoration for the god (Jesus) and the goddess (Mary).

Well just so long as they arent worshiping "gold calfs" anymore. That pissed off god royally and he killed thousands over it.

God has the people kill each other for dancing naked around Aaron's golden calf. So they kill like 3000 people.

In Haiti, voodoo and catholicism are very very close.

Is this pick on Catholics day?

I dont mean to pick on catholics, many fine upstanding human beings are catholic and I dont wish to attack them. I also dont want to offend any catholics by what I said.

In Louisiana, Catholicism is very often mixed with all kinds of native spirituality including voodoo and Witchcraft. I have more respect for the Catholics than any other Christian denomination which is not saying much. Heh.

At least it's a start.

Krimsas are you having trouble reading between the lines???Paul is talking about sex(fornication)with people you are not in love or in a relationship with.When he says it is good a man not touch a woman,he is saying you shouldn't be touching a woman in a lustful way.The bible says "no sex before marriage".Paul is simply saying if you want to have sex you should get married to uphold Gods word.

I see no flaws in this logic.Paul is saying it's better to marry than to be sexually immoral.I would like you to give me the verse where it says a woman should be stoned to death if she wasn't a virgin.

It's also obvious you are going to some Anti-Chritstian website trying to find all the dirt you can and spatter is all over this board.

1 Corinthians 7:1-40 “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.


1 Corinthians 7:39 A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she wishes,only in the Lord.

Hebrews 13:4 Let marriage be held in honor among all,and let the marriage bed be undefiled,for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.

1 Corinthians 11:12 For as woman was made from man,so man is now born of woman.And all things are from God.

1 Corinthians 7:8 To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am.

Proverbs 21:19 It is better to live in a desert land than with a quarrelsome and fretful woman.

Leviticus 18:6-18 “None of you shall approach any one of his close relatives to uncover nakedness. I am the Lord. You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother; she is your mother, you shall not uncover her nakedness. You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's wife; it is your father's nakedness. You shall not uncover the nakedness of your sister, your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, whether brought up in the family or in another home. You shall not uncover the nakedness of your son's daughter or of your daughter's daughter, for their nakedness is your own nakedness.

Do you ever do any research before shooting your mouth off?Catholicism may be the biggest religion on the world but it certainly isn't in the Untied states and that is what we are talking about here....

The largest religion in the US is Christianity, practiced by the majority of the population (nearly 76.5% in 2001[5]). Roughly 51.3% of Americans are Protestants, 23.9% are Catholics, and 1.7% are Mormons (the name commonly used to refer to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints), and 1.6% to various other Christian denominations.[9] Christianity was introduced during the period of European colonization.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States


Top Twenty Religions in the United States, 2001
(self-identification, ARIS)
Religion 1990 Est.
Adult Pop. 2001 Est.
ADULT Pop. 2004 Est.
Total Pop. % of U.S. Pop.,
2000 % Change
1990 - 2000

Christianity 151,225,000 159,030,000 224,437,959 76.5% +5%

Nonreligious/Secular 13,116,000 27,539,000 38,865,604 13.2% +110%

Judaism 3,137,000 2,831,000 3,995,371 1.3% -10%

Islam 527,000 1,104,000 1,558,068 0.5% +109%

Buddhism 401,000 1,082,000 1,527,019 0.5% +170%

Agnostic 1,186,000 991,000 1,398,592 0.5% -16%

Atheist 902,000 1,272,986 0.4%

Hinduism 227,000 766,000 1,081,051 0.4% +237%

Unitarian Universalist 502,000 629,000 887,703 0.3% +25%

Wiccan/Pagan/Druid 307,000 433,267 0.1%

Spiritualist 116,000 163,710 0.05%

Native American Religion 47,000 103,000 145,363 0.05% +119%

Baha'i 28,000 84,000 118,549 0.04% +200%

New Age 20,000 68,000 95,968 0.03% +240%

Sikhism 13,000 57,000 80,444 0.03% +338%

Scientology 45,000 55,000 77,621 0.02% +22%

Humanist 29,000 49,000 69,153 0.02% +69%

Deity (Deist) 6,000 49,000 69,153 0.02% +717%

Taoist 23,000 40,000 56,452 0.02% +74%

Eckankar 18,000 26,000 36,694 0.01% +44%

http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html


Wow your Wiccan/Pagan/Druid religion only made up 0.1%!

Christianity is not dying it's thriving.Your religion is dead.

Voodoo and witchcraft???What are you smoking?They read verses from the bible.The don't read verses from any other book.The difference between Catholics and Christians is very small.We both worship the same God,we both believe in Jesus,we both read from the bible.The main difference is how the church service is conducted.Catholics also pray to the Virgin Mary where as Christians we don't.

I'll do you one better and list several innocuous excuses to stone a human found in your precious book.


For touching Mount Sinai

Whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death. Exodus 19:13

For taking "accursed things"

Achan ... took of the accursed thing. ... And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. ... So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger. Joshua 7:1-26

For cursing or blaspheming

And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him. Leviticus 24:16

For adultery (including urban rape victims who fail to scream loud enough)

If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city. Deuteronomy 22:23-24

For animals (like an ox that gores a human)

If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned. Exodus 21:28

For a woman who is not a virgin on her wedding night

If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her ... and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel's father shall say ... these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. ... But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die. Deuteronomy 22:13-21

For worshipping other gods

If there be found among you ... that ... hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them ... Then shalt thou ... tone them with stones, till they die. Deuteronomy 17:2-5

If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers ... thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 13:5-10

For disobeying parents

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother ... Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 21:18-21

For witches and wizards

A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:27

For giving your children to Molech

Whosoever ... giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones. Leviticus 20:2

For breaking the Sabbath

They found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. ... And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones.... And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses. Numbers 15:32-56

For cursing the king

Thou didst blaspheme God and the king. And then carry him out, and stone him, that he may die. 1 Kings 21:10

I dont understand your rebuttal at all on my points of contention with Paul. In fact, everything I posted was taken directly from the bible. You can misinterpret till your heart's content. In fact I took this from your response post.



Don't uncover the nakedness of any of your relatives or neighbors. Just ask them to keep their clothes on while you are around.

What point are you trying to make here exactly? I was talking about Paul being a misogynist ass.

Did you even read what I wrote before you had to jump in to be contradictory??? I was talking about the state of Louisiana!! Very often you will find a combination of Catholicism that is entwined with other native spirituality. You do understand that Louisiana has a diverse mixture of cultures residing there do you not? Crack a history book! There is a distinctive Cajun and Creole populace residing there. There is also a distinctive African American and Franco African representation.

This article goes into much more detail yet I just copied the start.

Beyond the official dogma and structures of the Catholic church, a wide range of folk religious practices has flourished, drawing upon African influences, medieval Catholicism, African-American belief and ritual systems, and Native American medicinal and belief systems.

Home altars with saints, statues, and holy water are widely used. Houses are trimmed with blessed palms or magnolias in the form of crosses over the doors. Creole Louisiana is probably best known for its association with voodoo (voudun in Haiti) as an Afro-Catholic set of religious practices.

Unlike Haiti, Louisiana Black Catholics have remained more connected to official church practices; thus African retentions are less marked. Still, within the context of the United States, Southern Louisiana Catholicism is unique. The practices of healers, spiritualists, and voodoo specialists who utilize an eclectic mix of prayers, candles, special saints, and charms for good or ill is carried on in settings that range from grossly commercial to private within neighborhoods and Communities.

Probably the strongest carrier of African-based religious tradition in both Creole and non-Creole Black communities in New Orleans are the spiritual churches. These locally based institutions emphasize spirit possession and ecstatic behavior as part of their service, and unlike such churches elsewhere, they utilize a wide range of Catholic saints and syncretic altars for power figures like Martin Luther King, Jr., St. Michael the Archangel, and Chief Blackhawk. In rural areas, the new charismatic Catholicism has also been Influential.

Krisma I have no problem with people being stoned to death for what ever crimes against God they created.If the bible says they should be stoned to death I also agree they should be stoned to death.In that time era stoning people to death was the preferred way to do a public execution(instead of be-heading,hanging,stabbing,etc.)there were surely more painful ways to die such as...being nailed to a cross and bleeding to death,being thrown into a lions lair and eaten,having your organs removed by the Romans,or being flogged to death.


You quoted bible verses Deuteronomy 22:13-21 Once again people took "no sex before marriage" very seriously back then".A woman who was not a virgin before her marriage was a serious problem and to quote Deuteronomy 22:21Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her fathers house,and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she dies because she hath wrought folly in Isreal to play the whore in her fathers house:so shalt thou put evil away from you.

I am disapointed you did not print the next verse as this is not a one sided issue.

Deuteronomy 22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband then they shall both of them die,both the man that lay with the woman and the woman:so shalt though put away evil from Israel.

I also posted bible verses they are there in black and white.

You also fail to understand that Jesus changed many customs(including stoning)when he walked the earth....

John Chapter 8

1 And Jesus went unto mount Olivet. 2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came to him, and sitting down he taught them. 3 And the scribes and the Pharisees bring unto him a woman taken in adultery: and they set her in the midst, 4 And said to him: Master, this woman was even now taken in adultery. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us to stone such a one. But what sayest thou?

6 And this they said tempting him, that they might accuse him. But Jesus bowing himself down, wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 When therefore they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said to them: He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again stooping down, he wrote on the ground. 9 But they hearing this, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest. And Jesus alone remained, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 Then Jesus lifting up himself, said to her: Woman, where are they that accused thee? Hath no man condemned thee?

11 Who said: No man, Lord. And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn thee. Go, and now sin no more.

I posted that last verse because it teaches us the morals of a Christian marriage that it is not acceptable to see related family members nude.It furthers the Christian belief that sex should only be confided to the marriage and not to any outside members.