Abracadabra,

Finally a man with a brain 'and' common sense. I sincerly wish you the very best. We need more human beings like you in the world. We might actually judge eachother by content instead of beliefs for a bloody change.

abra is no longer with us. He vanished into thin air when the monkey exorcised him.

I agree, Abracadabra has a lot of good ideas in his knoggen and he expresses them most eloquently.

Alright, I've reached my "ass-kissing" quota for the evening.

Back to being rude and abrasive.

It's strange, I find a post mocking the beliefs of Christians and insulting Christians to be judging by beliefs rather than content. Or is a Christian only his beliefs and therefore fair game? I really don't see how Abra's last post in this thread can be seen as "juding by content instead of beliefs".

That's your delusion Spider.

I speak to the issue of a dogma and history.

You're the one who always tries to make it into a personal insult issue.

And that's only because that's the only defense you can come up with. You know damn well that the dogma itself can't be defended so you resort to calling personal foul.

It's the oldest trick in the book.

When you can't defend, just call personal foul and try to discredit the person who is beating you to death with reason.

I'm not going to get into the back and forth with you James. You are old enough to act like an adult if you want and I figure at your age nothing I say is going to change you. But if you want to pretend the bolded statements below aren't insults to Christians, then that is your choice.

THE DEVIL IS BACK!!!!!!!

Spider,

Christians (at least the very up tight evangelical ones) can be quite un-Christan in their beliefs. That is a pretty typical standard observation of them. They tend to espouse hatred, intolerance and throw around judgment of things they simply have no conceivable right or respnsibilty to judge.

How do you know exactly that god would be against the supreme court's decision in the case of Roe v. Wade? Maybe he thought it was a good idea. And for that matter, how do you know that god condemns homosexuals to hell? He created gay men and lesbian women so maybe he doesnt mind them one bit.

To presume that you somehow know what god likes or desires or that he backs your team in some respect is laughable.

He might just send you to hell for all of this unwarranted condemning. Its the principle of the thing.

I don't believe anybody goes to hell for getting an abortion or for being gay. So why do you feel the need and the right type those thoughts as if they are my own?

But as for homosexuality and abortion being a sin, that's simple. Homosexuality is discussed as a sin five times in the New Testament. It's a no-brainer. Then comes abortion...that's murder. I thought of it as murder before I was a Christian. I can't see how a baby human can be anything other than a human.

The problem I see is that you and Abra and so many others can't seem to respond to a post by a Christian without filling the post with your own condemnations of Christianity and Christians and sprinkle in a number of strawman fallacies so that you can get some traction.

I was speaking from a historical perspective.

I do believe that Christianity is a trainwreck of a religion, and a slap in the face to Jesus.

There's no reason why anyone should be personally insulted by that. It's a statment about an organized religion in general and not a statement about any individual.

Unless you invented the religion yourself it isn't aimed at you.

The people who follow the religion are victims of it just as much as Jesus was.

Well even if I accepted the concept of "sin" in the same way you are plagued by it, which I certainly do not, I still would not consider abortion a sin.

I would however, consider uptight Christians trying to tell women what they can and can not do with their own bodies a sin.

In my mind, thats a big sin.

You dont have the right to make that call.

As for homosexuality, there is nothing wrong with it except that you think there is something wrong with it. You have been brainwashed by the church to believe there is something wrong with it even when it clearly constitutes nothing other than a loving relationship between two consenting adults.

Leviticus 20

20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

Cant we just try spanking first??

And you are going to actually listen to something like this as it pertains to rational discernment of your fellow humans?

First off they aren't strawman fallacies. They are extremely valid points that you have never been able to rebuke.

And secondly, why are you trying to sell this godforsaken religion so hard?

If you want to jsut believe it then why don't you just go to the Christian Forum and believe it with other Christians?

Why are you here tring to SELL IT and JUSTIFY it as being "Reasonable"?

When you do that, of course we're going to step in and and point out why we believe it to be totally "Unreasonable".

This thread was asking why the Bible has merit.

My original point was simple.

The bible has no merit. The only reason that it's so popular today is because throughout the course of history the Bible Thumpers would MURDER anyone who didn't buy into it.

Clearly they were indeed murderers.

That's a well-documented fact.

Christianity is what it is today because it was proselytized by mass murderers.

Pure and simple. That's just a well-documented historical fact Spider.

You can't argue with history.

So it's not morally wrong to kill an innocent human being, but it is morally wrong to say that a woman can't kill an innocent human being?

Abra,

A lot of people can't wait to see us tear into each other, but I'm going to disappoint them and probably you. I'm not here to argue. I've said my piece. Some will agree with you that Christians are un-Christian in behavior. Some will agree with me that you make unnecessarily insulting statements about Christians. To some, it's a strawman when Krimsa or you put words into my mouth, to others...I don't know what, but I'm sure they justify it in some way.

The point being, I'm not here to argue with either of you, so I wish you both a good night and a happy tomorrow.

Yes its morally wrong to take away another human being's right to autonomy. I cant do that to you because you are a man and you are incapable of becoming pregnant. So you dont know what that is like and you never will know.

A fetus is entirely dependent on the woman's body for its nourishment, health and well-being. It doesnt matter if its alive. I dont even look at it in degrees of "aliveness". I consider that I am sovereign over my body and a fetus is a life-form dependent on my body. If I were to decide to give up my life for the benefit of mankind, or to participate in an action where I risk my life, and at that time I am pregnant, I deem that I can make that decision about my body, whether I am pregnant or not. If I were to throw myself in danger for the purpose of saving lives, I will be throwing that fetus in danger too, as it will die should I die, and that is my decision to make. It does not have rights outside of the body it is growing in.

Dammit!

OH NO!

Thank you Spider. I wish you the very best as well.

And I sincerely do apologize if you have taken any of this personally. I'm truly not out to hurt anyone on a personal level. My beef is with an organized religion. Not with individuals.

And I agree with you that I do get carried away with it too easily. I seriously see the religion as having a negative affect on humanity in general and it pains me to see this.

I would also like to remind you, which you should fully understand by now anyway, that my beef is not merely with Christianity but with the whole Mediterranean thing. That would include Judsism, Islam, and Christianity. I see these as one huge religion that fell into adversarial parts and has ever since been creating political unrest and international tensions.

So it's far more than just about Christianity for me. It's about world peace.

I do hold that world peace will never be achieved by a religion that claims that peace cannot be achieved until everyone agrees with it. That's going to go over like a lead balloon I'm afraid.

Have a good evening.

Goodnight spider. I dont want to go down the abortion road as its anyway.