the statistics I reported were for Winx...she wanted to see some numbers in regards to rape in the context of abortion...so...for all of you loud mouthed ...guilt ridden pain in the asses...fugg off !!...

I'll try and remember that...as far as abortion goes...I couldn't care less what a woman does with her own body...my opinion really doesn't matter in the whole scheme of things...If I think its wrong...thats only MY opinion...thats it !...I'm not trying to change any law...or...anyones mind...have as many as you want...it's legal and it's your body...the more the merrier...good luck...God Bless...and...do what ever you want...whenever you want...

Why is it that we want men to accept the responsability for fatherhood,yet we constantly try to reduce them to the role of sperm donor & check writer?

Do we want men to parent or not? Dosn't parenting start with the pregnancy? Could we be pushing men away from the role of fatherhood by trying to strip them of any rights?

I want to hear opinions on this. I can see points for both sides.

In response to Lily:

I'm humbly sorry for what a woman's body must suffer most times during pregnancy and childbirth, but I certainly am not responsible for creating how that process works. Therefore, I do not feel it is fair to men to be punished for this by allowing the woman to make the ultimate decision whether or not he be allowed or denied the joys of fatherhood.

I respectfully disagree with you - married or NOT, if a "couple" chooses to engage in sex which could ultimately result in pregnancy, then it should be a SHARED decision.

To Jim:

"Dude", I feel I have every right to have a voice in whether MY child lives or dies. We are not discussing a vasectomy here - that's apples to pork chops, in my opinion.




Thank you, Littleredhen! I think you can already sumise my opinion on your post.
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Case in point:

Man meets woman. Man and woman fall deeply in love. Man and woman have sex (with protection, mind you). Woman gets pregnant. Man is filled with complete joy. Woman is not. Man offers to do all the "right" things, even raise this child alone if need be. Woman refuses due to not wanting to be "inconvenienced" by pregnancy at that point in her life. Man pleads for the life of his child. Woman refuses. Man apparently has "no say" in the matter. Woman aborts child. Man is forever heartbroken and sheds a tear every day for the remainder of his life for his lost child.
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Personally, I would take a leaky bladder, swollen ankles, weight gain, and all the multitude of other things that go along with pregnancy and child bearing...if I physically could, but clearly I cannot.

So, as Lily stated...until any of you have to live with that form of "pain" of having your rights stripped away of loving a child of yours on a daily basis - it doesn't concern you and stay out of it.

I'm humbly sorry for what a woman's body must suffer most times during pregnancy and childbirth, but I certainly am not responsible for creating how that process works. Therefore, I do not feel it is fair to men to be punished for this by allowing the woman to make the ultimate decision whether or not he be allowed or denied the joys of fatherhood.

I respectfully disagree with you - married or NOT, if a "couple" chooses to engage in sex which could ultimately result in pregnancy, then it should be a SHARED decision.

I also find an extraordinary responsibility on the part of the woman - no matter what happens.

When did this issue become about a woman's body and not about the life of an unborn child?

Fear,

This is a quote from me. You said it happened rarely. I am just one person and this is what I have seen. It is not so rare in my eyes. There are also the women that are too ashamed to report rape and can't handle taking it to court.

I would like to add to the above list - One of my mother's co-workers was raped and murdered. I don't know if the women that were killed are included in the rape statistics.

the statistics I reported were for Winx...she wanted to see some numbers in regards to rape in the context of abortion...so...for all of you loud mouthed ...guilt ridden pain in the asses...fugg off !!...

Sorry I'm late with my reply Winx. I am only one person and have known an ex-girlfriend that was raped by her boyfriend at the time, a good friend that was raped at a party she attended and had GHB slipped in her drink (she got pregnant and used the morning after pill), and a number of women not directly associated with me (through friends). Rape statistics are rather flimsy as with any statistic, such as (just an example) people who drive after having too many drinks as well as have done drugs the same night if they hit someone and they die the statistic is attributed to the drug and not alcohol.

This does not mean it doesn't happen rarely and I in no way mean to make it seem like less of a problem but think about this way, five to ten people you know compared to how many total women you know? For me it is a 5-100 (estimated) ratio, which is accountable for all but 5% of the women I know so again it may seem like that is a lot of people but percentage wise it is actually very small. I also stated in one of my replies that I didn't think all rape cases that became pregnancies were reported, so I fully agree with you on that point.

Again, I am pro-choice I just find a fight easier to fight if you have a proper collection of facts backed with a major number of people.

While I absolutely REFUSE to force my decision on any other couple or individual I can only come from my personal experiences through my life.

I found myself pregnant against my will as a very young woman and while I consider the rape and act of violence I considered the conception a miracle and did not want to chose to abort my child.

Other pregnancies I felt differently. One when I was struggleing abandoned with two young sons I was greatly relieved to miscarry. Since the existing children were my first obligation I would have made their survival paramount.

Since I can't get pregnant without help I have always considered that if I consent to have sex with someone then they have rights in the decision making process. Since that is a 50/50 decision the tie vote comes from the only other interested party the child. Since I have never seen a newborn that could survive without being a drain on someones body the idea that a fetus takes something from the Mother's body is moot. It also took something from the Father. That gift has some considderation in my books. Does it seem an equal contribution compared what I know about pregnancy? Yes because I expect that Father to protect and provide for me during pregnancy and early Motherhood even if it is an extream physical hardship. And I assure you that being pregnant was anything but easy for me.

That I consider my life extreamly difficult by most peoples standards I would still like the right to decide if I am born or not and feel like society is failing me as a person not to protect my right to be born. And to have a reasonable expectation of support until I can do it for myself. If I then find my life to have no value it is quite easy, and my right, to end my own life.

I hear a lot of talk about forceing things on women well isn't the basic right to survive as a female a right? Some how a child has presendent over and adult or it seems to me it should. Am I over compensateing for the Mother I did not have? Yea maybe but even if I sometimes question my value in the world I don't question the value of my children or theirs.