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| Topic: IS GOD RESPONSABLE FOR EVERYTHING OR NOT | |
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ok thnx for that my lady, now - you do understand that with this god there is no so called evolution, we were made then at the beginning as we are now, complete, it's not like starting off as apes and becming human homo sapiens along the way, unless your stating that the evolution is not of man but his intellect?i wasn't a big star treck fan so i'm not sure of this. but if it is the knowledge of man you speak of i will digress, if it's mans nature - well that has remained the same since the beginning, his moral character has not gotten any better since eden. and he does not need a physical encounter with a devil to tempt him to act as he does, so to me prime directive doesn't work for this god. If he wanted us to be spiritual beings he could have let us all onto what he wanted instead of a few chosen prophets and others, would it help if we could all see into the nxt world as they did? you betcha, but for his reasons he does not allow this except for a chosen few. he says in one breath - be like children and you will enter in and in another breath for us to put away childish things and grow up??he tells us of our past to let the door slam down behind our heels on these things and then states to tell others of whats hapened in the past. he tells us to not eat of sacrificed animals and then says eat my flesh and drink my blood. and he does not hold to this prime directive thing as to do what ever it takes not to interfere, he interfers when ever he wishes and does what ever he wants, and he surely would not sacrifice himself as you describe prime directive is supposed to do. " even to save their lives and/or their ship" this god is not going to go down with his ship. I imagine you're speaking of the god of Christian understanding. I speak of a god of all understanding. Spiritual Evolution. why thats quite the imagination you have there my lady, and your intuitive answer is correct. so your speaking of the quintessential god - "prime directive?" the interplanetary pope? the gosmos of the cosmos? the universal unitarian diety? The KING of KLINGon's, the viccar of Vulcans? and how did this spiritual evolvement-of-lution begin? IF this gosmos of the cosmos does exist... I haven't the foggiest of how it/he/she began. All I have are those few bits and pieces of information/intuition I gather and observe. They're only fragments. My pieces could only be completed with addition/collaboration of others'. If we are the explorers, sent to this physical world to gather knowledge only available in this dimension, it would perhaps explain the temporary amnesia to the complete picture. A breach of this "Prime Directive" would distract from the full experience of the physical assignment. I only call it evolution for lack of a better name. Our soul MUST have good reason to come into this willingly. I don't know how it began or why... It had to have started somewhere.  how do you know we came into this willingly? what makes you think were explorers?
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so are you saying then that who i was before i woke up this morning or went to bed is not or was not my true me? the person who raised children in what is now not the present was not the true me? that i can only be the true me as i type these words? What I am saying is the person you are exists in the present moment. Everything exists in the present moment. The person you were when you were a child is not the person you are today. The person you were yesterday is not same person you are this moment. Lets say you could divide into two people this moment. Call it an artificial person, one who is exactly like you in every way. You go into a copy machine and you create a double who is just like you in every way, same mind, same experiences. Then, separate these two people. Let them live apart. Let them live apart with two different points of view, separate observation points of view, separate in mind and experience. In no time at all you will acquire different experiences, different knowledge, maybe even different opinions on things. You will still be very much alike, but you will have different experience and you will be different in your person because of it. I did not mean to say that this is your true spiritual self, or your true self in the higher spiritual sense, but in consideration of the incarnated person you have become because your experiences make you who you are in every moment. It is not really time that makes you who you are, but your experiences. When you have new experiences, you change and you are not the same total "person" you were before. I hope this helps you understand what I mean. jb understood my lady, but what makes you sure of what you state? how do you know this? what evidence in your own life points you to come to these conclusions? and by what if anything are you comparing it to as a measure of its truth? |
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ok thnx for that my lady, now - you do understand that with this god there is no so called evolution, we were made then at the beginning as we are now, complete, it's not like starting off as apes and becming human homo sapiens along the way, unless your stating that the evolution is not of man but his intellect?i wasn't a big star treck fan so i'm not sure of this. but if it is the knowledge of man you speak of i will digress, if it's mans nature - well that has remained the same since the beginning, his moral character has not gotten any better since eden. and he does not need a physical encounter with a devil to tempt him to act as he does, so to me prime directive doesn't work for this god. If he wanted us to be spiritual beings he could have let us all onto what he wanted instead of a few chosen prophets and others, would it help if we could all see into the nxt world as they did? you betcha, but for his reasons he does not allow this except for a chosen few. he says in one breath - be like children and you will enter in and in another breath for us to put away childish things and grow up??he tells us of our past to let the door slam down behind our heels on these things and then states to tell others of whats hapened in the past. he tells us to not eat of sacrificed animals and then says eat my flesh and drink my blood. and he does not hold to this prime directive thing as to do what ever it takes not to interfere, he interfers when ever he wishes and does what ever he wants, and he surely would not sacrifice himself as you describe prime directive is supposed to do. " even to save their lives and/or their ship" this god is not going to go down with his ship. I imagine you're speaking of the god of Christian understanding. I speak of a god of all understanding. Spiritual Evolution. why thats quite the imagination you have there my lady, and your intuitive answer is correct. so your speaking of the quintessential god - "prime directive?" the interplanetary pope? the gosmos of the cosmos? the universal unitarian diety? The KING of KLINGon's, the viccar of Vulcans? and how did this spiritual evolvement-of-lution begin? IF this gosmos of the cosmos does exist... I haven't the foggiest of how it/he/she began. All I have are those few bits and pieces of information/intuition I gather and observe. They're only fragments. My pieces could only be completed with addition/collaboration of others'. If we are the explorers, sent to this physical world to gather knowledge only available in this dimension, it would perhaps explain the temporary amnesia to the complete picture. A breach of this "Prime Directive" would distract from the full experience of the physical assignment. I only call it evolution for lack of a better name. Our soul MUST have good reason to come into this willingly. I don't know how it began or why... It had to have started somewhere. how do you know we came into this willingly? what makes you think were explorers? Well... True... I don't know. For all we know, this whole human experience thing could be like a concentration camp... Right?  I believe that there must be some greater purpose in us being here other than just to be born, live and then die. Do I know this as actual fact? No... My sense is that we are here to learn... Like explorers of the human experience... Just because I sense this... it doesn't make it so... In a Universe of infinite possibility where no one has to be the final authority, my little fragment is but an infinitesimal contribution... Ideas out of dreams. Dreams out of connection to a greater whole. |
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discussion continued Eljays last response: I think we diverge on the idea of "responsibility" and who is accountable for it. Perhaps too - the concept of sin. You perceive sin as a quantifiable entity, whereas I see it as non-righteousness. The absence of something rather than the measure of something. It then follows that God gets blamed for the short comings of man. I don't agree with this Pantheistic thought - as God is God, and Man is man. We are the creation, he is the creator. It is contrary to the biblical concept of God to equate the thoughts and actions of man to that of God, thereby reducing God's nature to that of man. This is man attempting to convince himself he knows the mind of God. Something the bible is quite exact on predicting that man would do. Doesn't this only reinforce the prophecy and validity of the text? Peter's second letter was devoted to this very subject. Just as you stated in an earlier post on another thread - the times they are a changing. Have we not seen from the time of our youth till now the overwhelming attempt of man to degrade and even dismiss God. I even see posts that claim that Hitler's final solution was due to his being a christian. Revising history to support the degrading of God. And with each generation, I find that fewer and fewer even bother to read the bible before they've formulated an opinion about it, and once having done that, they then use the text itself to support their pretext that God is less than he claims to be in the very text they are referring to. And this passes for sound reasoning? TRIBO REPLY: sorry my friend, my point remains the same - but i will say that i don't consider myself to be an all knowing all powerful god, i also have no problem with his destruction to achieve his purposes or any of the other things spoken of - my point is simple - god brought about all that is or will ever be - whether you are convinced of his reasons to do as he as done is inconsequential, the fact remains had he not brought forth his plan as he did - sin would not have entered the picture and therefore no fall from grace, the plot was his, the outcome is his - he is without a doubt to be held responsible for all that did, is ,will take place, there is no way around it. Having given this a little more thought - I cannot disagree with you in terms of how you have presented it. In actuality, I have not been in disagreement with the fact that since God knew/knows it all from the end to the beginning, I would say that I am in full agreement with you on his being responsible for all that has/is/will take place. Having said that - I think what we've been divergent on is this idea that there was somehow a better way to have gone about it. As though what we have available to us in this life could have somehow been improved without sacrificing that to which we hold dear. So I leave you with this question. How do you perceive it being "better designed" without the sacrifice of that which we hold dear? ELJAY: But I digress. Forgive me. I think to consider God to be anything less than righteous, Just, and the source of all truth and wisdom - is creating a new God, which to me - does not exist. So I often stand in full agreement with those who say that God does not exist, because once they proceed to describe the God they understand, it is quite evident that - that God does not exist; for the description always falls short of the testimony of those who describe to us the historical God to which they witnessed, who is referred to as the creator, and the source of all which is good. so rather than do the exegesis on who and what God is, they establish a presumption of the biblical God, and then proceed to refute it. If that isn't a logical fallacy, I don't know what is. (Tribo) A logical fallacy to me is that someone takes the writings of others and claims them to be god's. without any further proof to back it up except whats written down. oh i forgot you have your personal experiences to witness to these truths you hold so dear. but you wont even consider that all that has happened to you personally could have happened if you knew nothing of what you ""feel"" is/was because of god? i don't believe in things just because they affect me in some emotional way as to make me believe they are so whether of god or anything religious. to me that's a sorry way to determine anything, feelings lie, so does the heart, and so does the mind as well as senses. to base hard truths on such to me is self deception, no matter what god you may believe in or what religious take you may have. For me, I take the testimony of the authors at their word. If Isaiah tells me the word of God came to him - why should i assume he lied. What purpose would it have served Peter or John to have fabricated what they witnessed of Jesus' ministry, since they were fully convinced that Jesus was God? Seems self defeating to have invented stories about him when they were fully aware that He had risen from the dead, and came to them after the resurrection. And Luke - who was not an eye-witness, but an historian, would have had to ignored the testimonies of everyone he'd interviewed, and been an avid student of the Torah to have come up with his two books. And in addition to this - the idea of God being totally omniscient and having the power of his creation would had to have this completely suspended and watch - powerlessly while the testimony he wished to convey to man be that corrupted as to not be what he intended. Absurd to consider any of these "conspiracies" to be valid. It's just easier to claim atheism through ignorance, and not bother to pursue the topic at all. The personal experience is just a matter of support to something that is logical to me. While it is true that these experiences would have been the same had I not had faith in god - the same holds true for those who somehow think that random chance is responsible for the events in their lives when there is no way they can discount or disprove it is not - in fact - God working in their lives to bring about the outcomes of these events. A mere disbelief in God does no more to disprove his existence than a belief in him proves he does. However - we have this book called the bible which, through it's own claim, is a testimony of his existence, and his walking upon this earth. What "text" exists for any other philosophy that does not find it's origin from man alone? The Koran has Mo hammed as it's sole inspirator, and after he died, he did not come back to do anything for those who followed him. In addition to this - the Koran changed and modified itself to suit his lifestyle. Not something the bible does. If the bible is anything, it is consistent in it's claims, which was done through men who wrote it through inspiration over thousands of years. I would say by that mere fact alone - it at least calls out to be read, if not just to see if it's possibly true. It is folly to hold onto the claim that it is pure fiction having never even read it. That I find to be a great puzzlement. THNX lAR, ABOUT THE ANGELS FIRST, tell me why you think he did not stop with them especially after the rebellion? is he not capable as he is with mankind of destroying them? If he is - then why even keep them around, yet we read both at the beginning and later that god allows them or him in his presence to stand before him and act as the accuser? why? if god is not allowed to look upon sin or have it in his presence - why does he allow Satan to do just that? As to the authorship of the bible - that's where it gets sticky for me - when i read of what books were in circulation before the bible as has been known since Constantine's time [although that has been changed also] there were many being read and accepted as the word of god by these other writers. Though i cant find much to go on i raise the question of the book of Enoch which Jude actually quotes from and it's acceptence by him and others of being from god, yet in the book it describes things like god himself building the ark for Noah, not Noah building it. it also gives a more detailed account of the angels mating with human women and a lot of other things that don't fit in with the genesis accounts - is that why it was banned? if so then tell me - the first and second century Christians were in my opinion the only true christians enmass, meaning they if any would have had the discernment to know if or what was of god and what was not - yet they accepted even at Jude's time Enoch to be so - a time not removed from living apostles, so by implication the apostles would have know of the book also and maybe even christ i would have to guess. so why would the later deciders of what the canon would consist of throw it out or seperate it from the commonly accepted canon? this holds true of the decision of whether to include the revelation of peter [which was widely read] or the revelation of john [which was much less read and in some cases not inclusive to some churches. if i agree that those who put the writings down were inspired by god to do so, how am i to believe that Constantine a untrue christian most of his life would have the authority or give the authority to let those people sanctify what they perceived to be what would become to us now as "THE TRUTH" and "ONLY TRUTH" of gods words? This is true of other books of the apocrypha as well as non canonical books [some which i will admit are gnostic writings not worth the paper there printed on definitely not in line with any biblical thought but of mysticism and foolery] but to deny books even mentioned by jude or others is to me a sign that there was an "AGENDA" of what was to be allowed to form and be able to defend over time a mindset of the apostolic leaders - which to me were not inspired as paul.john.matthew,mark,luke and the rest - do you get what i mean? It's mens agenda i dont trust and i see the book as we have it now agenda driven to bring those who read to a desired conclusion as to what the agendest intended to bring about. now i'm nt talking of the piso family like JB, it has nothing to do with that this is something i have believed for 2 decades not since joining here. for me i keep looking at history to find these answers as much as possible but i dont really expect to find them here. |
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ok thnx for that my lady, now - you do understand that with this god there is no so called evolution, we were made then at the beginning as we are now, complete, it's not like starting off as apes and becming human homo sapiens along the way, unless your stating that the evolution is not of man but his intellect?i wasn't a big star treck fan so i'm not sure of this. but if it is the knowledge of man you speak of i will digress, if it's mans nature - well that has remained the same since the beginning, his moral character has not gotten any better since eden. and he does not need a physical encounter with a devil to tempt him to act as he does, so to me prime directive doesn't work for this god. If he wanted us to be spiritual beings he could have let us all onto what he wanted instead of a few chosen prophets and others, would it help if we could all see into the nxt world as they did? you betcha, but for his reasons he does not allow this except for a chosen few. he says in one breath - be like children and you will enter in and in another breath for us to put away childish things and grow up??he tells us of our past to let the door slam down behind our heels on these things and then states to tell others of whats hapened in the past. he tells us to not eat of sacrificed animals and then says eat my flesh and drink my blood. and he does not hold to this prime directive thing as to do what ever it takes not to interfere, he interfers when ever he wishes and does what ever he wants, and he surely would not sacrifice himself as you describe prime directive is supposed to do. " even to save their lives and/or their ship" this god is not going to go down with his ship. I imagine you're speaking of the god of Christian understanding. I speak of a god of all understanding. Spiritual Evolution. why thats quite the imagination you have there my lady, and your intuitive answer is correct. so your speaking of the quintessential god - "prime directive?" the interplanetary pope? the gosmos of the cosmos? the universal unitarian diety? The KING of KLINGon's, the viccar of Vulcans? and how did this spiritual evolvement-of-lution begin? IF this gosmos of the cosmos does exist... I haven't the foggiest of how it/he/she began. All I have are those few bits and pieces of information/intuition I gather and observe. They're only fragments. My pieces could only be completed with addition/collaboration of others'. If we are the explorers, sent to this physical world to gather knowledge only available in this dimension, it would perhaps explain the temporary amnesia to the complete picture. A breach of this "Prime Directive" would distract from the full experience of the physical assignment. I only call it evolution for lack of a better name. Our soul MUST have good reason to come into this willingly. I don't know how it began or why... It had to have started somewhere. how do you know we came into this willingly? what makes you think were explorers? Well... True... I don't know. For all we know, this whole human experience thing could be like a concentration camp... Right? I believe that there must be some greater purpose in us being here other than just to be born, live and then die. Do I know this as actual fact? No... My sense is that we are here to learn... Like explorers of the human experience... Just because I sense this... it doesn't make it so... In a Universe of infinite possibility where no one has to be the final authority, my little fragment is but an infinitesimal contribution... Ideas out of dreams. Dreams out of connection to a greater whole. i wonder alot about this to my doe, i see and sense that all other life around me seems to have no other purpose but to be born live and die - and it leads me to wonder if man, for some reason,[which i beleive may be ego] tricks himself into believing [because he feels himself different or better or more important than all else] that somewhere lies a more or higher purpose than all else? it could very well be there is nothing more. yet like you i have expierenced spirit as have others, but i cant know that all life does not also expierience this also since i can not communicate with animals etc. what would be funny is if all the other life was shaking their heads behind our backs, thinking 'what fools' to themselves for not realizing that we are the low animal on the food chain not them. that we are the low animal on the spiritual chain, not them. |
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ok thnx for that my lady, now - you do understand that with this god there is no so called evolution, we were made then at the beginning as we are now, complete, it's not like starting off as apes and becming human homo sapiens along the way, unless your stating that the evolution is not of man but his intellect?i wasn't a big star treck fan so i'm not sure of this. but if it is the knowledge of man you speak of i will digress, if it's mans nature - well that has remained the same since the beginning, his moral character has not gotten any better since eden. and he does not need a physical encounter with a devil to tempt him to act as he does, so to me prime directive doesn't work for this god. If he wanted us to be spiritual beings he could have let us all onto what he wanted instead of a few chosen prophets and others, would it help if we could all see into the nxt world as they did? you betcha, but for his reasons he does not allow this except for a chosen few. he says in one breath - be like children and you will enter in and in another breath for us to put away childish things and grow up??he tells us of our past to let the door slam down behind our heels on these things and then states to tell others of whats hapened in the past. he tells us to not eat of sacrificed animals and then says eat my flesh and drink my blood. and he does not hold to this prime directive thing as to do what ever it takes not to interfere, he interfers when ever he wishes and does what ever he wants, and he surely would not sacrifice himself as you describe prime directive is supposed to do. " even to save their lives and/or their ship" this god is not going to go down with his ship. I imagine you're speaking of the god of Christian understanding. I speak of a god of all understanding. Spiritual Evolution. why thats quite the imagination you have there my lady, and your intuitive answer is correct. so your speaking of the quintessential god - "prime directive?" the interplanetary pope? the gosmos of the cosmos? the universal unitarian diety? The KING of KLINGon's, the viccar of Vulcans? and how did this spiritual evolvement-of-lution begin? IF this gosmos of the cosmos does exist... I haven't the foggiest of how it/he/she began. All I have are those few bits and pieces of information/intuition I gather and observe. They're only fragments. My pieces could only be completed with addition/collaboration of others'. If we are the explorers, sent to this physical world to gather knowledge only available in this dimension, it would perhaps explain the temporary amnesia to the complete picture. A breach of this "Prime Directive" would distract from the full experience of the physical assignment. I only call it evolution for lack of a better name. Our soul MUST have good reason to come into this willingly. I don't know how it began or why... It had to have started somewhere. how do you know we came into this willingly? what makes you think were explorers? Well... True... I don't know. For all we know, this whole human experience thing could be like a concentration camp... Right? I believe that there must be some greater purpose in us being here other than just to be born, live and then die. Do I know this as actual fact? No... My sense is that we are here to learn... Like explorers of the human experience... Just because I sense this... it doesn't make it so... In a Universe of infinite possibility where no one has to be the final authority, my little fragment is but an infinitesimal contribution... Ideas out of dreams. Dreams out of connection to a greater whole. i wonder alot about this to my doe, i see and sense that all other life around me seems to have no other purpose but to be born live and die - and it leads me to wonder if man, for some reason,[which i beleive may be ego] tricks himself into believing [because he feels himself different or better or more important than all else] that somewhere lies a more or higher purpose than all else? it could very well be there is nothing more. yet like you i have expierenced spirit as have others, but i cant know that all life does not also expierience this also since i can not communicate with animals etc. what would be funny is if all the other life was shaking their heads behind our backs, thinking 'what fools' to themselves for not realizing that we are the low animal on the food chain not them. that we are the low animal on the spiritual chain, not them. Well... If I was inclined to choose an already "defined" philosophy/spirituality it would be something Native American. The mutual respect shown for all living things suggests a desire for harmony and equality rather than an ego-driven need to feel better than all other things, living and inanimate. |
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ok thnx for that my lady, now - you do understand that with this god there is no so called evolution, we were made then at the beginning as we are now, complete, it's not like starting off as apes and becming human homo sapiens along the way, unless your stating that the evolution is not of man but his intellect?i wasn't a big star treck fan so i'm not sure of this. but if it is the knowledge of man you speak of i will digress, if it's mans nature - well that has remained the same since the beginning, his moral character has not gotten any better since eden. and he does not need a physical encounter with a devil to tempt him to act as he does, so to me prime directive doesn't work for this god. If he wanted us to be spiritual beings he could have let us all onto what he wanted instead of a few chosen prophets and others, would it help if we could all see into the nxt world as they did? you betcha, but for his reasons he does not allow this except for a chosen few. he says in one breath - be like children and you will enter in and in another breath for us to put away childish things and grow up??he tells us of our past to let the door slam down behind our heels on these things and then states to tell others of whats hapened in the past. he tells us to not eat of sacrificed animals and then says eat my flesh and drink my blood. and he does not hold to this prime directive thing as to do what ever it takes not to interfere, he interfers when ever he wishes and does what ever he wants, and he surely would not sacrifice himself as you describe prime directive is supposed to do. " even to save their lives and/or their ship" this god is not going to go down with his ship. I imagine you're speaking of the god of Christian understanding. I speak of a god of all understanding. Spiritual Evolution. why thats quite the imagination you have there my lady, and your intuitive answer is correct. so your speaking of the quintessential god - "prime directive?" the interplanetary pope? the gosmos of the cosmos? the universal unitarian diety? The KING of KLINGon's, the viccar of Vulcans? and how did this spiritual evolvement-of-lution begin? IF this gosmos of the cosmos does exist... I haven't the foggiest of how it/he/she began. All I have are those few bits and pieces of information/intuition I gather and observe. They're only fragments. My pieces could only be completed with addition/collaboration of others'. If we are the explorers, sent to this physical world to gather knowledge only available in this dimension, it would perhaps explain the temporary amnesia to the complete picture. A breach of this "Prime Directive" would distract from the full experience of the physical assignment. I only call it evolution for lack of a better name. Our soul MUST have good reason to come into this willingly. I don't know how it began or why... It had to have started somewhere. how do you know we came into this willingly? what makes you think were explorers? Well... True... I don't know. For all we know, this whole human experience thing could be like a concentration camp... Right? I believe that there must be some greater purpose in us being here other than just to be born, live and then die. Do I know this as actual fact? No... My sense is that we are here to learn... Like explorers of the human experience... Just because I sense this... it doesn't make it so... In a Universe of infinite possibility where no one has to be the final authority, my little fragment is but an infinitesimal contribution... Ideas out of dreams. Dreams out of connection to a greater whole. i wonder alot about this to my doe, i see and sense that all other life around me seems to have no other purpose but to be born live and die - and it leads me to wonder if man, for some reason,[which i beleive may be ego] tricks himself into believing [because he feels himself different or better or more important than all else] that somewhere lies a more or higher purpose than all else? it could very well be there is nothing more. yet like you i have expierenced spirit as have others, but i cant know that all life does not also expierience this also since i can not communicate with animals etc. what would be funny is if all the other life was shaking their heads behind our backs, thinking 'what fools' to themselves for not realizing that we are the low animal on the food chain not them. that we are the low animal on the spiritual chain, not them. Well... If I was inclined to choose an already "defined" philosophy/spirituality it would be something Native American. The mutual respect shown for all living things suggests a desire for harmony and equality rather than an ego-driven need to feel better than all other things, living and inanimate. agreed, out of all i have studied the first poeples spiritual take on things fits me better than all else. - Awi Dekata |
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ok thnx for that my lady, now - you do understand that with this god there is no so called evolution, we were made then at the beginning as we are now, complete, it's not like starting off as apes and becming human homo sapiens along the way, unless your stating that the evolution is not of man but his intellect?i wasn't a big star treck fan so i'm not sure of this. but if it is the knowledge of man you speak of i will digress, if it's mans nature - well that has remained the same since the beginning, his moral character has not gotten any better since eden. and he does not need a physical encounter with a devil to tempt him to act as he does, so to me prime directive doesn't work for this god. If he wanted us to be spiritual beings he could have let us all onto what he wanted instead of a few chosen prophets and others, would it help if we could all see into the nxt world as they did? you betcha, but for his reasons he does not allow this except for a chosen few. he says in one breath - be like children and you will enter in and in another breath for us to put away childish things and grow up??he tells us of our past to let the door slam down behind our heels on these things and then states to tell others of whats hapened in the past. he tells us to not eat of sacrificed animals and then says eat my flesh and drink my blood. and he does not hold to this prime directive thing as to do what ever it takes not to interfere, he interfers when ever he wishes and does what ever he wants, and he surely would not sacrifice himself as you describe prime directive is supposed to do. " even to save their lives and/or their ship" this god is not going to go down with his ship. I imagine you're speaking of the god of Christian understanding. I speak of a god of all understanding. Spiritual Evolution. why thats quite the imagination you have there my lady, and your intuitive answer is correct. so your speaking of the quintessential god - "prime directive?" the interplanetary pope? the gosmos of the cosmos? the universal unitarian diety? The KING of KLINGon's, the viccar of Vulcans? and how did this spiritual evolvement-of-lution begin? IF this gosmos of the cosmos does exist... I haven't the foggiest of how it/he/she began. All I have are those few bits and pieces of information/intuition I gather and observe. They're only fragments. My pieces could only be completed with addition/collaboration of others'. If we are the explorers, sent to this physical world to gather knowledge only available in this dimension, it would perhaps explain the temporary amnesia to the complete picture. A breach of this "Prime Directive" would distract from the full experience of the physical assignment. I only call it evolution for lack of a better name. Our soul MUST have good reason to come into this willingly. I don't know how it began or why... It had to have started somewhere. how do you know we came into this willingly? what makes you think were explorers? Well... True... I don't know. For all we know, this whole human experience thing could be like a concentration camp... Right? I believe that there must be some greater purpose in us being here other than just to be born, live and then die. Do I know this as actual fact? No... My sense is that we are here to learn... Like explorers of the human experience... Just because I sense this... it doesn't make it so... In a Universe of infinite possibility where no one has to be the final authority, my little fragment is but an infinitesimal contribution... Ideas out of dreams. Dreams out of connection to a greater whole. i wonder alot about this to my doe, i see and sense that all other life around me seems to have no other purpose but to be born live and die - and it leads me to wonder if man, for some reason,[which i beleive may be ego] tricks himself into believing [because he feels himself different or better or more important than all else] that somewhere lies a more or higher purpose than all else? it could very well be there is nothing more. yet like you i have expierenced spirit as have others, but i cant know that all life does not also expierience this also since i can not communicate with animals etc. what would be funny is if all the other life was shaking their heads behind our backs, thinking 'what fools' to themselves for not realizing that we are the low animal on the food chain not them. that we are the low animal on the spiritual chain, not them. Well... If I was inclined to choose an already "defined" philosophy/spirituality it would be something Native American. The mutual respect shown for all living things suggests a desire for harmony and equality rather than an ego-driven need to feel better than all other things, living and inanimate. agreed, out of all i have studied the first poeples spiritual take on things fits me better than all else. - Awi Dekata So... If that take fits you better, how does the other idea of ego-driven man, tricking himself into believing that somewhere lies a more or higher purpose than all else fit in? I mean, is the first people's take enough to pull you up to face each day? |
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were talking on another thread about mans fall and some say its Satan who caused sin and others Adam and eve for eating and i who say it's god's fault!! So here's my case in a nut shell - god started creation, god knew how everything would go, god decided to allow sin to enter into existence - therefore god is responsible for sin. and that is proof that the judeu/ christian God is a false ideology |
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Edited by
Krimsa
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Fri 10/17/08 06:37 PM
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were talking on another thread about mans fall and some say its Satan who caused sin and others Adam and eve for eating and i who say it's god's fault!! So here's my case in a nut shell - god started creation, god knew how everything would go, god decided to allow sin to enter into existence - therefore god is responsible for sin. and that is proof that the judeu/ christian God is a false ideology Now hold on just a minute sir, you aren't presuming to interject an unsound argument on a religion forum based solely on unprovable assertions and subjective rhetoric are you? Just take that logic elsewhere young man, we wont have that here! 
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were talking on another thread about mans fall and some say its Satan who caused sin and others Adam and eve for eating and i who say it's god's fault!! So here's my case in a nut shell - god started creation, god knew how everything would go, god decided to allow sin to enter into existence - therefore god is responsible for sin. and that is proof that the judeu/ christian God is a false ideology Now hold on just a minute sir, you aren't presuming to interject an unsound argument on a religion forum based solely on unprovable assertions and subjective rhetoric are you? Just take that logic elsewhere young man, we wont have that here! what doesnt make sense is proof enough(for me) that "God" is man made |
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Edited by
tribo
on
Fri 10/17/08 07:00 PM
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ok thnx for that my lady, now - you do understand that with this god there is no so called evolution, we were made then at the beginning as we are now, complete, it's not like starting off as apes and becming human homo sapiens along the way, unless your stating that the evolution is not of man but his intellect?i wasn't a big star treck fan so i'm not sure of this. but if it is the knowledge of man you speak of i will digress, if it's mans nature - well that has remained the same since the beginning, his moral character has not gotten any better since eden. and he does not need a physical encounter with a devil to tempt him to act as he does, so to me prime directive doesn't work for this god. If he wanted us to be spiritual beings he could have let us all onto what he wanted instead of a few chosen prophets and others, would it help if we could all see into the nxt world as they did? you betcha, but for his reasons he does not allow this except for a chosen few. he says in one breath - be like children and you will enter in and in another breath for us to put away childish things and grow up??he tells us of our past to let the door slam down behind our heels on these things and then states to tell others of whats hapened in the past. he tells us to not eat of sacrificed animals and then says eat my flesh and drink my blood. and he does not hold to this prime directive thing as to do what ever it takes not to interfere, he interfers when ever he wishes and does what ever he wants, and he surely would not sacrifice himself as you describe prime directive is supposed to do. " even to save their lives and/or their ship" this god is not going to go down with his ship. I imagine you're speaking of the god of Christian understanding. I speak of a god of all understanding. Spiritual Evolution. why thats quite the imagination you have there my lady, and your intuitive answer is correct. so your speaking of the quintessential god - "prime directive?" the interplanetary pope? the gosmos of the cosmos? the universal unitarian diety? The KING of KLINGon's, the viccar of Vulcans? and how did this spiritual evolvement-of-lution begin? IF this gosmos of the cosmos does exist... I haven't the foggiest of how it/he/she began. All I have are those few bits and pieces of information/intuition I gather and observe. They're only fragments. My pieces could only be completed with addition/collaboration of others'. If we are the explorers, sent to this physical world to gather knowledge only available in this dimension, it would perhaps explain the temporary amnesia to the complete picture. A breach of this "Prime Directive" would distract from the full experience of the physical assignment. I only call it evolution for lack of a better name. Our soul MUST have good reason to come into this willingly. I don't know how it began or why... It had to have started somewhere. how do you know we came into this willingly? what makes you think were explorers? Well... True... I don't know. For all we know, this whole human experience thing could be like a concentration camp... Right? I believe that there must be some greater purpose in us being here other than just to be born, live and then die. Do I know this as actual fact? No... My sense is that we are here to learn... Like explorers of the human experience... Just because I sense this... it doesn't make it so... In a Universe of infinite possibility where no one has to be the final authority, my little fragment is but an infinitesimal contribution... Ideas out of dreams. Dreams out of connection to a greater whole. i wonder alot about this to my doe, i see and sense that all other life around me seems to have no other purpose but to be born live and die - and it leads me to wonder if man, for some reason,[which i beleive may be ego] tricks himself into believing [because he feels himself different or better or more important than all else] that somewhere lies a more or higher purpose than all else? it could very well be there is nothing more. yet like you i have expierenced spirit as have others, but i cant know that all life does not also expierience this also since i can not communicate with animals etc. what would be funny is if all the other life was shaking their heads behind our backs, thinking 'what fools' to themselves for not realizing that we are the low animal on the food chain not them. that we are the low animal on the spiritual chain, not them. Well... If I was inclined to choose an already "defined" philosophy/spirituality it would be something Native American. The mutual respect shown for all living things suggests a desire for harmony and equality rather than an ego-driven need to feel better than all other things, living and inanimate. agreed, out of all i have studied the first poeples spiritual take on things fits me better than all else. - Awi Dekata So... If that take fits you better, how does the other idea of ego-driven man, tricking himself into believing that somewhere lies a more or higher purpose than all else fit in? I mean, is the first people's take enough to pull you up to face each day? the true pathwalkers dont stop with what is stated my lady, there are quite numerous thought's by the first peoples on how things came about, the spirit and natural world is not settled nor is it limimted by stories or myths, yet it/they donot contain all the answers to life, just many more that i agree with than others believe in or proclaim that i have looked into or studied thus far. And the very fact that it can be seen by all as a worthy goal to aceive these things in ones life here and now - 
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Edited by
GOALLTHEWAY
on
Fri 10/17/08 07:06 PM
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were talking on another thread about mans fall and some say its Satan who caused sin and others Adam and eve for eating and i who say it's god's fault!! So here's my case in a nut shell - god started creation, god knew how everything would go, god decided to allow sin to enter into existence - therefore god is responsible for sin. You have been told the truth and you will not accept it. There is no point in arguing with you. So why even bother? You will find out when you croak....ok? |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Fri 10/17/08 07:23 PM
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were talking on another thread about mans fall and some say its Satan who caused sin and others Adam and eve for eating and i who say it's god's fault!! So here's my case in a nut shell - god started creation, god knew how everything would go, god decided to allow sin to enter into existence - therefore god is responsible for sin. You have been told the truth and you will not accept it. There is no point in arguing with you. So why even bother? You will find out when you croak....ok? Well lets just settle this now. You come over here and I will strip you and have you lay in a tub of ice until you slip peacefully into a state of hypothermia. Of course all this immediate response resuscitation team crap is unnecessary in my opinion. Let's allow you to "sleep" undisturbed in a hypothermic state with nonexistent vitals for about 45 minutes. I bet we can revive you, if not, well you died for science old chap! Good show! |
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were talking on another thread about mans fall and some say its Satan who caused sin and others Adam and eve for eating and i who say it's god's fault!! So here's my case in a nut shell - god started creation, god knew how everything would go, god decided to allow sin to enter into existence - therefore god is responsible for sin. You have been told the truth and you will not accept it. There is no point in arguing with you. So why even bother? You will find out when you croak....ok? AHHH!! no truer loving christian words have ever been spoken GATW, funny you butt in after deb and eljay have already conceded the fact that he is resonsible for everything. but thanks for the kind words anyway. may what you believe find you in your gods arms protected from all like me. |
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God gave us a gift in giving us the ability to choose for ourselves. Free will. If we screw ourselves over we are the only ones to blame & not him. Blameing him is the easy way out & not truthful in the least.
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God gave us a gift in giving us the ability to choose for ourselves. Free will. If we screw ourselves over we are the only ones to blame & not him. Blameing him is the easy way out & not truthful in the least.
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God gave us a gift in giving us the ability to choose for ourselves. Free will. If we screw ourselves over we are the only ones to blame & not him. Blameing him is the easy way out & not truthful in the least. well then what do we do when god himself says he is the creator of evil:: 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. {*} Isaiah 47-7 |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Fri 10/17/08 08:02 PM
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Can anyone prove this stuff is "divinely inspired" or better yet, not terribly agenda driven by men eager to obtain power, control and presumably wealth by espousing this crap and pretending to "hear the direct word of a faceless, formless deity?"
And what happened to all of the civilizations and people who existed thousands of years prior to this monotheistic invasion who were Pagan??? 
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