No... God made a plan that would make a new creation...born to good works, with power & authority in Jesus' name.

Maybe the questions should be, since His power wisdom & knowledge is freely available for the asking...why would anyone want to settle for less?

he created man with the intention and ability to do great, we chose the path of sin, we choose to do evil, and for the people who want help, choose to ask for God for it.

Dude...

You say God created sin.

I say yes indeed "he" did.

It (sin) serves a greater purpose.

Especially for you.

A) “I understand most definitely that no matter what the depth of mans will is that was given by god, it is as a spec of dust as to his will.”

God does not interfere with mans will unless it goes directly against him. You can see this in the Bible. Hell! You can see it on the T.V. news every night.


B) “he had plans for them for instance bringing the Christ into existence”

Yes, because the only way he could truly offer man salvation from evil was by the shedding of his son’s innocent blood. Which Jesus freely did for us all. Evil can only be utterly defeated by Gods purity. Something man kind can not fathom.

C) “No I cant do what I want [ and neither can you!] - get real i only have the free will to use within set boundaries both here or in the spirit realm! can i walk into the bank and fill up a garbage bag with money?, you can't be serious.”

Jesus said we could move mountains with our faith and that the apostles would be able to perform miracles like he did. And they did. Oh you of little faith.

D) “A child does not "form" it's own life, in fact without care in infancy it would die and without training it would be just as Adam and Eve when it grew.”

You are taking my words out of context and I think you are doing it on purpose. A child grows into and adult. An adult makes his or her own choices. Adam and Eve lost their innocents when they sinned against God. God provided all that they needed up until that point.

E) Perfect here does not mean perfect it can't! there is only one thing perfect that is supposedly your god! strongs- tamiym - has to mean one of the others given - complete or whole etc.. way [strongs] -derek - means manner, you were complete in all your manner.

Perfect as in “WITH OUT SIN” is what is meant here.

F) but to my point i was originally making - GOD created everything - therefore he is responsible for all actions, all good all bad, all else - EVERYTHING!!

He is NOT responsible for the choices you and I make. I can’t be any clearer on this point.

FREE WILL. The freedom to make your own mind up on who to love, who to hate, who to kill, steal from, rape, help, mentor, lie about, covet, save - on and on and on. Why can’t you understand this???

P-E-R-S-O-N-A-L R-E-S-P-O-N-S-I-B-I-L-I-T-Y
PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY

YOU ARE TO BLAME FOR YOUR SIN. YOU ARE TO BLAME FOR YOUR DAMNATION AND JESUS is to THANK for your SALVATION if you FREELY FOLLOW HIM AND ASK FOR HIS AND HIS FATHERS FORGIVNESS. – NO ONE ELSE IS TO BLAME FOR YOUR SIN BUT YOU.

Your christian history is filled with devout men of god, speaking with his supposed wisdom and under the holy spirit, "cosmos" [see my post called christian topography] was such a man learned in scripture and languages and as devout of a christian as can be - yet he spends time writing 10 books to prove through sacred scripture that the world is not round!!

the point is you can be perfectly right about something "scripturally" but it really don't mean crap - wiser more learned men then those here have been incredibly wrong in the past about numerous things that were later proven by pagans to be incorrect. that's the problem - when you take the words written as infallible and especially when people take them to mean something concrete instead of just words. may your god open your eyes to this truth.

DUDE?? hmmm? are you upset SL? my name is tribo or mr. tribo to you young lady -

that was me being humerous SL, sorry if you took it to mean i was serious -

what part of "god created everything" don't you get!! you continue to blame man -one of god's creations for sin? did man create himself? NO! - if god created everything but man would their be any sun as god states as to what sin is? - NO!

Unless you can ""prove"" to me that god did not create satan amn the tree of good and ""EVIL"" then your resposes are nothing to me.

The whole point is this - would sin or evil exist in creation had god not brought creation forth?

That my friend is the crux of my post!

Sin the the falling short of rightiousness. It is the absense of something. How is the absense of something a thing which is created? Since God Himself is incapable of being unrightious - how is He responsible for sin? That is like blaming Ted Bundy's mother for the murders he commited because she gave birth to him. Isn't Ted responsible for his own actions?

i should have posted all the other things already talked of on the other post but i was lazy - i'm tired of going over this, this is like the 5th time people have responded in similiar manner, i won't go through the explanation again.

suffice to say i'll get the post where this all started from and then you can or others can reply to this post - your working partially blind.



DID GOD CREATE everything? yes,

did he create satan? yes,
did he create the tree of good and EVIL?

YES!!

did he place man in the garden? yes

if the tree had not been placed there, would man have been able to eat of it? NO!

god did not sin!

he created the potential of man sinning!

this potential for sinning was gods doing!

at best man had a 50/50/ chance!
add satan to the story, and the odds of man sinning go up dramatically!

who created and allowed satan there? man? no GOD!

it was a set up and god ""IS"" responsible for the set up!!

god created the atmosphere for all this to happen!

would it have happened if this was not so? - NO!

so the reason SIN entered into creation is because god allowed it!

if he allowed it then he is guilty of creating the scenario!
thus he in the long run is guilty of creating the sin of adam. case dismissed!

the rest is on the mark of the beast post starting page 32 read that and then come here if you want to respond.

Not to be picky - but it was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

So I'm failing to make the stretch of equating God's allowing something to happen to his being responsible for something happening.

I tend to think of responsibility of following either an action or an omission. And given that - a purely subjective assessment. Again - I tend to draw the analogy of rightiousness and sin to that of heat and cold. We measure Heat. Cold is what we understand to be an absense of heat - as opposed to being an an opposite. We do not quantify cold, nor do we measure it. For all intents and purposes - it does not exist, yet we can understand it, but define it as a lesser quantity of heat.

So too, it is with rightiousness. Rightiousness is an absolute - not something that is subjective.
Anything that falls short of the absolute - is sin. It is not something that is created - just understood.

Now - is one wants to view God as subjectively responsible for the existance of what is understood as sin, I suppose there isn't much of an argument to that. But that is viewing rightiousness from the standpoint of man, and not God. Because we may think that what we do is good, and right - does not necessarilty mean it is so in the absolute. It's only this way for a group who's subjective viewpoint is equated. Those who consider the only reality is perception.

But are we looking for a response to your post subjectively - or in the absolutes of the biblical reference? I'm assuming because you are refering to "God" in your context as the one who references himself as the creator - than shouldn't the responses relect what is understood in the absolute? If so - God is the standard of rightiousness. If evil exists, it is not god who is doing it - or is responsible for it's being done, for it only exists for those who refuse to follow the heeds and warnings he has already established as a standard for rightiousness. Therefore, since the ability to perform as totally rightious beings is there for man to accomplish through the mere heeding of the Holy spirit, or the word of God, than God is now absolved of any blame for a lack of rightiousness, so defined in this thread as sin.

go read my profile, then tell me "God was in Charge" of that punk I shot!

“What part of "god created everything" don't you get!! You continue to blame man -one of god's creations for sin? Did man create himself? NO! - If god created everything but man would there be any sun as god states as to what sin is? - NO!”

Man chooses Sin. We are special to GOD above all other creatures and yes, there would still be sin with out mankind. Remember that a third of Gods Angels were thrown out of heaven because they chose to follow Satan.



“Unless you can ""prove"" to me that God did not create Satan and the tree of good and ""EVIL"" then your responses mean nothing to me.”

Again, God made everything but he did not give us sin. Satan gave us sin. If you made a child and that child rebelled against you would you be to blame for that child’s choice?


“The whole point is this - would sin or evil exist in creation had god not brought creation forth?”

Maybe there are dimensions that have no sin. I believe that Heaven exist in another dimension and it has no sin. Hell is in another dimension and it is full of sin. The dimension we live in has Good and Evil. I mean if you want to be scientific about it look up STRING THEORY.

It seems to me that you want to blame God for your sin – in a round about way. Well it just doesn’t work that way…sorry.


Man kind is a comatose retard with miss firing brain waves compared to the genius of GOD. God created intelligence. So guess what – he is the intelligence that created intelligence. It’s kind of mind blowing when you think about it. God talking to us is like you talking to your DOG. You could tell a dog how an internal combustion engine works and he would just sit there and lick his nuts and keep wondering what you have for him to eat.

For God to even bother with us is an honor in it’s self. Let alone the handing over of his son to us so that Jesus could be persecuted ,tortured, taunted, spit on and murdered.

Humanity is a bunch of arrogant self centered terds for the most part and God still loves us and tries to help us.

The smartest human on the planet, with his /her greatest theory’s has not even scratched the surface of Gods majesty and intelligence. We are MUD. All of humanity is in pre-school and God already has over 2,000,000,000,000 doctorates.


SUCK IT UP.

sin does not exsist to me -or for me in a biblical sense, so no i'm not trying to use it to justify any of my actions i do or think should be allowed to be done - and comparing god to a number with a quadrillion zero's after is not going to impress me either. So skip the pointless anologies.



as far as other dimesions or universes go where sin might not exist, you can leave that out of the equations also - were dealing with "this" creation and gods creative actions as stated in the book!

so back to my initial OP, would the potential for sin exist if god had not created all the book says he created?

simple question, simple answer - NO!

If that's agreed upon then sin came about because of gods desire.need/want/ to create - no creation - no potential for sin - creation as he chose to create - potential for sin.

i look at thecore of something to determine the cause - others look at things that eminate from the core problem and see it as the cause- i do not!

"would the potential for sin exist if god had not created all the book says he created?"

Sin only exists for Man and some angels. So if you take out those Angels and those humans there is no sin. So God does not have to re-due his creation. He only has to wipe the smudge called Evil off of it.

So, almost 99.999999 % of creation would still exist with out sin.

No other creature on earth sins but man.

so then you agree no matter how faintly that sin exist! because god created the potential for it - good! that's all i was trying to say - thanks

Understood that QS doesn't see "sin" as being part of the lesson or path.

Here's just a hypothetical question...

(I don't ask to agitate or stir anyone's pot)

What if "His" Power, Wisdom & Knowledge was freely available to ALL through more than just the door of Christianity?

Could you ever consider this remote possibility?

If so, and you were able to envision this possibility...

Would you then be willing to embrace all differences and open your heart to those who don't share your perspective?

Sorry, Tribo...

I strayed off the OP a bit.

that's ok BB, what im not sure of is are you asking QS this question above or me? i presume it's her correct?

my answer as an x C - would have to be that they all can only see this their god as the father of christ/jesus, so thier is no room for belief in any other god who has a savior son, not jewish or muslim, it's thier way or the highway [of course they will refer to god as stating this also not their loving personal view of love the sinner hate the sin - hmmm?]

The question was to QS.

Was Jesus ever known for suggesting all must choose His way or Hit the Highway?

That just doesn't seem like the Jesus I've learned about.

Love the sinner, hate the sin...

Human interpretation, I think.